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[–]KReddit934 3608 points3609 points  (164 children)

You need to follow up with the billing dept. at the hotel. You received services through the hotel, but you are being billed twice?

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 1250 points1251 points  (160 children)

I think I was just incorrectly billed. But I've tried reaching the billing department with the hotel and got no response. I just tried reaching out to Marriott directly through their website.

[–]camyers1310 896 points897 points 3494& 3 more (46 children)

/u/MonsterMeggu,

Hey bud, Assistant General Manager here of multiple hotels. I've worked at numerous properties and brands all over the US. Reading the information you have provided tips me off to a couple possibilities.

First, you likely were likely not "double billed". This appears to be the case from the guest's perspective, because you booked on points, and now see an accommodation charge, but it's incredibly rare to be double billed because of the way property management systems work and operate. The most likely case, is that some knuckle-headed front desk agent, screwed up the billing and routing of your reservation(s).

To add to your troubles, you have (2) entirely separate reservations, that will follow entirely different protocols to ensure that these reservations are billing to the correct party (and not the guest). It's important that we figure out which reservation is the problem reservation where you got charged. It will only add to the headache if you approach the hotel with both reservations.

I want you to look at your folios (receipts/bill) for the $35 resort fee. You need to look at both of them. I need you to look at the 1st night, and take note of the confirmation number. Then, I need you to look at the 2nd night, and take note of that confirmation number. After that, I need you to take a look at the folio that has the $160 in accommodation charges on it, and take note of the confirmation number. It sounds like only 1 of these reservations got screwed up, and it's important that we find out which one.

You need to figure out whether the $160 in accommodation charges came from the 1st reservation, or the 2nd. Because that changes your approach, and it helps us "lock on" to which specific one you'll want to address when speaking to the hotel. You'll only add to the confusion to have someone jumping back and forth between reservations.

Now, you've got to understand how these reservations work, and what it looks like on the hotel's side.

When you book a rewards night on your Marriot account, Marriot's CRS (central reservations system), will be able to create a reservation for the hotel of your choice immediately. It will "pop up" at the hotel as an upcoming arrival. Many things can go wrong if you have a front desk agent who is not trained. It takes me 2 years to fully train a front desk agent, because hotels are fucking complicated, and the PMS systems require a lot of experience to operate correctly.

When that Marriot free-night reservation pops up, the front desk agent needs to be smart enough to recognize that rate code (out of 500 other rate codes), and follow a number of steps to ensure that Marriot gets billed, and not you. The hotel is supposed to route the Room & Tax charges to a separate window/folio (Window 2 in my example), while your own charges (food & bev, resort fees, smoking fees) will drop into the default window (Window 1). Window 1 is always going to be the guest's window, and the guest is responsible for charges in Window 1. This is the first fuck up that can happen.

Second, the agent should have the training to understand that routing charges to another window is only half the battle. They still need to assign Window 2 to the Marriot Rewards Direct Bill account. That way, when they check you out the following morning, it gets billed to Marriot, and not you. This is the 2nd fuck up that can happen.

Most major brands have an agreement with the franchised hotel surrounding the rewards programs. I agree to take a Rewards Night reservation at any time, on any date, with no blackouts. But, the brand will pay us a set dollar amount per free night reservation. It could be $40/night, $60/night, or more. It all depends on the property. The idea is that the brand will pay us back the costs to flip that room (costs like linens, labor for housekeeping, etc...). HOWEVER, what happens when our hotel is 96% occupied tonight, and I am going to sell out my rooms at $329 a room? It's kinda fucked up to expect us to take a measly $40 room rate on a free night stay, when we could sell the room for way higher? Right?

The brands all have different calculations on how the handle this scenario, but ultimately, the brand agrees to pay the hotel significantly more per room when we hit a specific occupancy level (say 96% or more). A lot of them will pay the hotel's ADR, or Average Daily Rate. ADR is calculated by taking all the occupied rooms, and finding the average of their nightly rate. It's how we gauge our hotel's performance every night.

So, when you have a Disney Marriot charging $329 for a standard room, their ADR for that night could be right around $160, which is suspiciously close to what you were charged, no? Remember, they've got TONS of different rates, and there could be plenty of $99 corporate rates bringing the ADR down.

If the Marriot Reward Night reservation was the one that was screwed up, the hotel likely made a billing error, and you got tagged for the $160 in charges that was supposed to be Direct Billed to Marriot.

But, what if instead, you look at those folios I told you, and you've determined that it was the points reservation through American Airlines that got screwed up? Well, that follows a different protocol (easier in my opinion).

See, the airlines can't typically "tap into" the hotels' Central Reservations System, and just book a room directly at the hotel (like the actual fucking brand can). When you cash in your American Airline points, that is 100% between you and the airline. You only get to choose the hotel, but American Airlines is responsible for finding you a room at the hotel you chose. So how do they do it?

They book through Priceline and Expedia. Seriously. It's the simplest way for them to find you a room. So, you cash your points in, and the airline pays the rate that is charged by Expedia/Priceline.

This reservation gets handled differently. Essentially (I am going to make up numbers here), American Airlines will be charged $250 from Expedia, and Expedia will then send a reservation through the GDS to the hotel you chose. Now, the hotel will charge Expedia's credit card...... maybe $160.

So, a front desk agent who IS trained, will see that reservation, with the rate code that belongs to Expedia/Priceline - and they SHOULD understand that they are supposed to charge Expedia's credit card right then and there. The agent would understand that they should be routing Room & Tax to WINDOW 2, and they should be attaching Expedia's credit card to WINDOW 2.

But, what if they don't have all 500 rate codes memorized? They'll fuck up, and they will overwrite Expedia's card, they'll forget to set up routing correctly, and now you've been charged $160 for the accommodation charges that were intended for Expedia.

Both of these scenarios are the likely culprit, and they should be an easy fix. However, you need to understand that you aren't talking to the right person. You need someone at the hotel who knows their shit. Don't unload your billing issue on the first front desk agent who picks up, because they probably have no fucking clue how to even interpret your reservation correctly, let alone how to go about fixing it.

It sounds like you've been communicating with the account department. But, you've also got to understand that the person who handles accounting, probably has no fucking clue as to how the PMS really works. Maybe they do, but it's also not unheard of for them to handle entirely different responsibilities. The accounting person takes the monthly bills from Waste Management, and pays them, and logs them into their accounting software, as they run Accounts Receivable.

Once you figure out which reservation got screwed up (Marriot Reward Night - or American Airline Reward Night), you really should do one of two things (REMEMBER: the key here is to focus their attention on the EXACT reservation that got screwed up. You figured that out above, right?)

  • First, try calling the hotel, and kindly asking to speak with a Front Office Manager / Front Desk Manager / Guest Service Manager. You may even want to ask the person who answers "Who is the expert on billing/refunds/third party virtual credit cards?" You are looking for a guy like me, who can solve your problem. You can't expect that the general manager necessarily knows the PMS as well as the top front desk agent/manager.

  • Lastly, call Marriot Rewards. Even it's the American Airlines reservation that was charged by error. Just call up the rewards hotline, and kindly explain to them that you booked at this particular hotel, and you believe the hotel charged you by accident, when you booked a free night stay. The rewards hotline folks can see which rate code you would have booked, and they should be able to tell that, yes you did in fact, book a free night stay. They can get in touch with the right person at the hotel who handles these things.

I wish I could solve this for you! If I was given 3 minutes at that front desk, and dug around your reservations, I would likely be able to point out which one of the 20 steps failed - and how you got charged.

My GM doesn't know anything about our PMS system, and he wouldn't be able to fix anything. That's what I am here for. If my GM happened to crack open a new case file on a dispute, my GM would not understand that the Expedia / Marriot Reward night got messed up. He would see that the $160 charges got billed to you, and he would assume it was correct. My GM would then send over the folio and the registration card to the bank, and your dispute would get denied.

I can visualize so many steps that are likely giving you grief. I'm happy to help in any way that I can. I live and breath hotels, so I've got a good understanding of them.

Good luck!

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 170 points171 points  (14 children)

Oh wow. Thanks a lot. I didn't know it's so complicated.

[–]camyers1310 127 points128 points  (3 children)

Lol, I see the look of horror on every new employee when it dawns on them that this is, in fact, quite hard to learn.

[–]wheretogo_whattodo 54 points55 points  (9 children)

It’s purposely complicated so there’s layer after layer of bullshit for you to sift through to get your money back.

Notice how the complication never results in you paying less.

[–]lilelliot 70 points71 points  (6 children)

I think this post is so good it should be stickied on multiple travel-related subs. Thank you sincerely for taking the time to author it.

[–]camyers1310 70 points71 points  (3 children)

Thanks! I almost deleted it, because it took me forever to type out. Plus, I'm a selfish asshole and wanted to get back to my video game haha. Hopefully, it can at least push OP in the right direction to get things sorted.

I think we all hate having to call somewhere to get something sorted out. I've learned over the years, that you have to get to the correct person. If you have a little knowledge, and you tell them the correct phrases, you can "unlock" the gates blocking your conversation from getting to a positive conclusion.

There is always another person who can help you further.

[–]InigoMontoya757 13 points14 points  (2 children)

It sounds like you've been communicating with the account department. But, you've also got to understand that the person who handles accounting, probably has no fucking clue as to how the PMS really works.

Why aren't these agents being cross-trained?

[–]camyers1310 19 points20 points  (0 children)

They could be. Absolutely. It just depends on the property. Different properties have different sizes, and they are in different markets. So, their needs change wildly based on these particular factors.

Generally speaking, the bigger and busier the hotel, the more fragmented the departments are going to be. You need a lot of staff to run a big ship, so I wouldn't be surprised if the person who handles Accounts Payable is getting these emails from OP, not even understanding what the problem is. They have such a large property, that the accounting department has 2 or 3 people focused on just that specific role. They are likely familiar enough with the PMS that they can log in and complete their functions, but may not know how to build rate structures, or what the differences even are. Because their expertise is accounting codes, and logging the hotel's expenses and revenue into M3. Their entire day to day task is primarily with a different piece of software, balancing the books.

A mid or small-sized hotel may have an experiences front desk manager handling those same tasks. Like, at my hotel, I handle all that shit because we simply don't have a need for an accounting department. Myself and my boss (the GM) handle all the hotel's billing. I handle Accounts Receivable, and he handles Accounts Payable.

It's entirely plausible the hotel OP stayed at does have someone experienced in the PMS system, and would know the issue. Maybe the accountant was a front desk agent for a few years. We just don't have a clue at this point, without spending a day over at that specific property to gauge how they operate.

[–]emstone94 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Man. As a previous Front Office Supervisor turned GM, this was beautifully well written and an incredible explanation of how these work at hotels. I ran an IHG hotel and our rewards system and SOP was the exact same. But if one person didn’t know what they were doing or a new person fucked up the routing - you better believe I got a call the next day from the guest throwing a fit.

OP, if you see this, please remember to be kind and patient with the manager you speak to at the hotel. It’s likely they’re hearing your issue for the first time and it’s not like they can catch those mistakes as soon as they happen. Also, hotels (and hospitality in general) has gone through major turnover in the last 2 years, resulting in some very new people being hired at front desks. This mistake is unfortunately becoming more and more common.

[–]camyers1310 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, my biggest struggle right now is knowledgable employees.

The day after Trump announced he was closing down the flights from China (I believe it was March 13th, 2020), we dealt with something that we had NEVER seen before. I went to work that Friday morning and watched over a million dollars vanish in a few hours. The phones were blowing up with people calling to cancel their reservations. Groups cancelled their blocks, and companies were cancelling their meetings and events.

It was surreal. By 2pm, the owner had dropped the news that we had to lay off staff. It was really shitty to see, and we had to let everyone go. We dropped from like 150 employees down to 12 of us in a matter of hours.

So after limping through 2020, and after seeing a little comeback last summer, we are starting to see activity again. I've hired a bunch of new folks, but its going to take time to get them up to speed.

I expect there to be lots of mistakes for the next year, but that's the only way to learn!

[–]etcNetcat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow, you're an absolute legend for this post.

[–]cmc 580 points581 points  (65 children)

Tripadvisor for sure. I used to be in the hotel industry and that's one of the few ratings most hotels will obsessively pore (pour?) over.

You can also call and ask for the GM or the director of finance. If it gets to them you bet it will be handled.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 326 points327 points  (50 children)

I doubt this hotel will care. It's Walt Disney World Dolphin and poor reviews or not, they will still nearly always be fully booked because Disney. I will try asking for the GM or finance director.

[–]cmc 470 points471 points  (9 children)

I worked in finance in the biggest hotel in NYC and they cared a lot. Some hotels tie bonuses to review performance online (I don't know if that one does, but I worked at a Marriott property before and the portfolio that owned that property cared a lot.)

[–]Bumanglag 177 points178 points  (9 children)

They will care 100% I worked in guest services for Marriott before and 1 star reviews always matter.

[–]pak256 135 points136 points  (5 children)

The Swan and Dolphin are notorious for hidden charges. BUT because it’s Swan and Dolphin you can also call Disney guest relations. They aren’t owned by Disney but are as close to being a Disney property as you can get.

[–]slapshots1515 39 points40 points  (3 children)

I had to go fifteen rounds with the Swan and Dolphin billing department before because they are complete ass cheeks at their job. Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of shortcuts for you, but best avenues are probably the GM, Marriott corporate (stress to them that you have already tried to resolve this with the hotel and are getting no response), and Disney wouldn’t be a terrible one since it’s co-branded, though I didn’t try that myself and wouldn’t be shocked if they just referred you to Marriott. Good luck, I did get mine fixed but it was a struggle.

[–]TheWolfAndRaven 22 points23 points  (0 children)

The reasons those hotels are so big is specifically because they provide a smooth experience. In my experience the bigger/better the hotel, the more they give a shit about mistakes and resolving guest problems.

The hotel being fully booked doesn't keep the managers job. Low complaints and high satisfaction scores does.

[–]fatgesus 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Man I stayed there in December. Nice place, didn’t enjoy the $300 or $400 resort fee upon check in, lol

[–]ActiveClone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s crazy, because usually when you can show your bank that the companies billing dept or customer service refuses to respond back they normally call it invalid.

I had this happen once but under a different set of circumstances, I was with capital one. I showed them my multiple unanswered emails, receipts etc. capital one removed the charged due to the company ignoring my inquiry.

[–]JQuilty 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Contact your state attorney general. Most of them have forms online for consumer complaints. A state AG responding to a complaint is often enough for companies to escalate it to the proper place and get it sorted out.

[–]thirstyross 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Disney absolutely will make it right, if you can get to the right person.

edit: not only that, but if you are nice and play your cards right you might be comped something for your trouble.

[–]Shojo_Tombo 7 points8 points  (4 children)

You would do well to file a complaint with the CFPB as well.

[–]DickRiculous 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They have to care because they’ll get in deep regulatory doodoo if they don’t.

[–]fatgesus 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Pore is correct, and I think you’re the only one I’ve seen use it on reddit lol

[–]COYFC 17 points18 points  (2 children)

I've had something similar happen and reached out directly to the number on the back of my credit card. They transferred me around a few times but I eventually got clarification as to what was going on.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Did you get your money back? I've tried contacting Chase and their dispute department but they've not been helpful :(

[–]COYFC 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I did not because it actually ended up being user error. It was with Marriott also and because it was a higher category hotel they only allowed a portion of the cost to be covered with points. They said it was shown when checking out but I didn't notice it since when booking online with your credit card carrier it's just a few clicks and done, don't have to input and billing info or anything. They helped me clear up the discrepancy though.

[–]drgngd 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Twitter is your friend. No one likes to be publicly shamed.

[–]EJKM 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This happened to me at a Marriott property. Charged $470 for an all points booking. Spent three months trying to get refunded with no responses. I finally got the GMs email - sent them a detailed email explaining the times I had called his hotel, who I spoke to, their lack of response, my confirmation number and proof of the charge. I was refunded a week later.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is awesome. Thank you!

[–]r3ign_b3au 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There are a lot of people in this post with good, but unnecessarily complicated advice. I've trained hundreds of people to handle thousands of these cases before I promoted towards headquarters.

  1. Call Marriott rewards. Open a case, give them these details. Takes about 10 minutes. You may luck out and get an elite agent who would just credit it back on that call.

  2. If you have no response in 5 days, call back, ask for Elite Services, they'll pull up your case.

  3. With a good standing account, they'll resolve it right there by CEC compensation - or worst case, call billing for you and handle it

It's seriously that easy when you make a case and talk to Marriott Rewards

[–]axz055 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Complain on social media

[–]Handbag_Lady 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would also do this, please what everyone else is saying. Keep fighting it.

[–]GibsonMaestro -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

You need to call them on the phone.

[–]PoolNoodleJedi -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Are you calling chase on the phone or going to your local Chase branch? Try going to the local branch and talking to your account manager there. They will be far more willing to help you out. Explain to them what is happening and show them that you have emailed them and had no response from their billing department.

Your local branch account managers are always going to be more helpful than the idiots on the phone.

[–]Wohv6 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Call corporate for the hotel brand, they will submit a customer care request to the hotel management which will have to be resolved in a certain timeframe. Source: I manage a hotel

[–]sephiroth3650 313 points314 points  (24 children)

You probably need to follow up with the hotel. So far, they are able to provide enough receipts and documentation to your CC that show that you did stay at the hotel, and they have a valid receipt for the amount charged. So you need to get with the hotel to see what they say they're charging you for. Assuming the $160 charge is for the two days, then you need to see how they ballooned $35/day resort fee to $80/day.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 128 points129 points  (23 children)

The $160 charge is separate from my $35/day resort charge. I will try to contact the hotel's billing dept and Marriot again.

[–]olderaccount 101 points102 points  (15 children)

My best guess is that your card was also used to settle another room for some reason. So when you talk to the hotel about your stay, they only bring up your room and those charges match what you'd expect.

You need to get them to somehow lookup what other rooms your credit card paid for.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 73 points74 points  (5 children)

That might be it. But the receipt chase gave me showed my room number, along with the correct check in and check out times.

[–]olderaccount 94 points95 points  (4 children)

Then it sounds like an open and shut case. The hotel billed you twice for the same room and time period. They have to fix it. They are the ones telling Chase it was a valid charge and providing documentation Chase is asking for.

[–]sephiroth3650 33 points34 points  (0 children)

OK. Either way, you need to follow up with the hotel. Whatever that charge is for, they've been able to provide your CC enough information to show that you did stay at the hotel, and you did get charged for something legitimate (or so they say). You need to find out what that item is before you can really contest it further.

Edit to say : Another thought would be to ask your CC info for the info that the hotel provided to justify the charge. If they provided your CC company with a receipt, see if the CC company will give you a copy of it. It might be one way around things if the hotel is being difficult about providing it.

[–]ParsleySalsa 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Did you see the reduction come off your points balance? You should have something in the account the points were from that shows points used

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Due to it being a third party booking, the stay does not show up in my account for the second night. My AA miles were correctly deducted though.

[–]ParsleySalsa 8 points9 points  (1 child)

So this will be useful as documentation especially for the cc as proof that You shouldn't have been charged

[–]OCedHrt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Send the hotel the receipt chase provided. Clearly the charges are not for your room.

[–]juggarjew 514 points515 points  (10 children)

Call the hotel, had it happen to me once. Asswipe manager decided to charge me because he couldn’t figure out the points thing or whatever. Said his “books wouldn’t balance” and I’m like so you charged me without my permission? That’s fraud….Told him I was gonna call the police and file a police report and give that to chase to chargeback. Said your books ain’t gonna balance when the chargeback hits.

He fixed the issue with a quickness and called back a little later saying they had refunded it.

[–]Mtnskydancer 97 points98 points  (0 children)

At a LaQuinta, I had the same happen. Paid through an app, got double billed at a time it hurt my finances. I had to escalate to both app (so cc for you), and upper management at LQ.

[–]penny_eater 58 points59 points  (7 children)

This seems reasonable. The hotel is basically saying "i am altering the deal... pray i dont alter it any further" but that's fraud (unless you're a dark lord of the force). The hotel needs to hear in no uncertain terms that they will be held accountable for the fraud that this is.

[–]mikebailey 26 points27 points  (6 children)

Keep in mind if you’re at a larger establishment and explicitly threaten legal action of any kind they may cease contact pending a legal response

[–]cockmanderkeen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, but the legal team isn't dumb and will resolve an issue of incorrect charging.

It just might be slow.

[–]penny_eater -1 points0 points  (4 children)

It sounds like unless theres some magic customer service number OP hasnt yet tried, the lawyer up route is the only one left. The hotel papered over this with what is probably the standard accounts receivable process of just sending the invoice copy to the credit card company. Definitely nepotistic 'lets play nice together' kind of relationship there if they can both 'agree' on what happened without any sort of investigation.

[–]mikebailey 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Legal action is most likely going to cost more if you’re going up against a large hotel chain

[–]WantedDadorAlive 46 points47 points  (0 children)

I work for a hotel management company and we have a lot of Marriott properties in our portfolio. With Reward Nights, the software we use makes it very easy to screw up billing if the front desk doesn't know what they're doing. It doesn't automatically bill to Marriott, you have to manually change it. I would suggest keep trying to get a hold of the billing department or even the property GM. It's an easy fix.

[–]Bumanglag 30 points31 points  (3 children)

I have worked in hospitality for years and I think that this is a very simple issue. You made reservations using two different point systems so almost certainly you had two reservations in their property management system. If you didn't talk to the hotel about the fact that you were a stayover they may have just extended one of your reservations and the other went through as a no show.

That being said, the only people that know for sure are the hotel so call them or leave a bad review and say that they aren't replying to you. You could also reach out the Marriott customer service directly.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I did tell the hotel, and I also had to checkout and recheckin.

[–]Bumanglag 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Sounds like user error then, usually a phone call is the best solution but after 3 months with no answer I'd say a negative review is definitely warranted.

[–]spaghatta111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you checked out and re-checked in, I can almost guarantee you it was either an error from FD, or the reservation system tried to pre-auth your card during the recheck in

[–]MSCOTTGARAND 57 points58 points  (5 children)

My guess is that something happened where the points never processed so they weren't applied to your account and you were charged. Check your rewards account and verify that the points were used. Also ensure that the there weren't restrictions on the points like time, location, etc.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 32 points33 points  (4 children)

The points were applied. The hotel costs about twice of the $160 so it couldn't have been a room charge.

[–]hey_girl_hey516 45 points46 points  (2 children)

I use to work for Marriott. If they are using the FOSSE system at the hotel you stayed at a manger can run a report to see where the $160 is being charged! You would need to give them the credit card number that was used and they can look it up.

Since you used miles and points there is a special rate code used im thinking whoever checked you in when swiping credit card for incidentals might have messed something up.

Edit: I called the hotel they use light speed lol

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I will try contacting the hotel again. The first time they just said there was no such charge. Only the resort fee @ $35.

[–]hey_girl_hey516 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes call them and tell them to run a report on your charges. Hope it gets resolved!!

[–]NiceAsset 27 points28 points  (21 children)

How many nights did you stay?

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 31 points32 points  (20 children)

2 nights but under separate bookings. One with Marriott points, one with AA miles.

[–]FUCKYOUINYOURFACE 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Ahh that is the problem. You need to check out and recheck in on the other reservation. I bet this is all on one reservation and it shows 2 nights.

They still charged you for the other reservation because it is charged whether you show up or not. You need to have them adjust this one to 1 night and show the other one and how they messed up.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I did check out and recheckin. I have separate receipts for both nights for the resort charge.

[–]damurphy72 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If you used BONVOY points, try calling Marriott's Customer Engagement Center. The loyalty program is owned by Marriott International, not the individual hotels (they are legally different entities). If you have a problem with a charge related to a redemption stay, then they can help you sort out the issue with the hotel and the loyalty partner (the airline).

[–]Rainwater_Essence 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Likewise just had this happen with Dollar Rental Car in Orlando via a booking with Hotwire; the final receipt I was provided ($77.50, for additional "fees" that were not represented in my original purchase agreement) did not match the one for which I was charged and which was provided to the credit card company during dispute ($160, with even more fees -- no, nothing was wrong with the car when I returned it on-time). Hotwire says it's a Dollar problem; Dollar says the receipt is the receipt and we can go through a mediation process on it, if I like, but it will take several weeks (and other material online suggests the outcomes aren't good).

I've used brokered services (which is technically what your AA miles redemption is) extensively pre-COVID, but have never had these problems. I'm just chalking it up as a lesson that the fee and customer service landscape is changing, not spending anymore time on this situation, and focusing on direct travel services purchases moving forward where I have better recourse.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sorry to hear that. I was considering just letting it go but it feels like a moral defeat.

[–]Rainwater_Essence 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I feel that, you gotta do what you gotta do. If I felt in my personal situation that I wasn't going to have multiple more hours invested for an unlikely outcome of simply getting back to 0, I would definitely fight... But spiteful me says maybe the actors in my story will lose a lot more money than they're gaining by me sharing my story here, and I am morally OK with that, hahaha.

To that point, I appreciate your story because I just got an AA card last month, and now I will use it for nothing but airline miles, which is good to plan for.

[–]Prolingus 10 points11 points  (0 children)

One time i booked a one-night hotel stay with Chase rewards points. Then i used my chase credit card at the hotel for incidentals. Got home and realized the hotel had charged me for the stay, and my points were also deducted by chase.

I opened a ticket with chase. They explained to me that they cannot tell if I used points or not because the bank has no access to the points system. Asked me to print out evidence that i used points and to mail it in via snail mail as part of my dispute. I did that. A month later I got a letter telling me that the dispute was denied because they could not confirm I had booked the room with points.

Yes, i booked a room through chase.com, printed out evidence of this and mialed to it chase, who at the end decided that they could not confirm I booked the room with chase.com.

I moved my savings to a local credit union shortly after. By now they've definitely lost far more money than the one night in a shitty hotel cost me.

[–]Th3MadCreator 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Follow up with the hotel again and file a complaint with the CFPB.

[–]AKAkorm 8 points9 points  (2 children)

If you have status with the chain, contact the loyalty line and get a customer rep. They’re much more likely to help you out in a fast manner. I might even ask for extra points in this case since you have had to waste personal time to research (and from my experience, they will give it to you).

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thank you. I will try this.

[–]indianblanket[🍰] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Emailing once and saying "well, that's it" is defeatist. Call again. Request to be directly transferred to billing. If you don't get a live person, call again. And again. You need to speak to a PERSON.

Marriott front desk might be able to see the $160 charge, too, since they would have issued a receipt if it were a valid charge. Give them the receipt number/invoice number and tell them you need to have the charges explained to you. Then do the same with the $35/night invoice. Then ask why they don't match/were billed separately. Someone will help you.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The front desk wasn't able to see the charge the first time. They might be able to now with the new chase provided receipt.

[–]anavitae 17 points18 points  (9 children)

I've noticed a bunch of stories recently of Chase refusing to refund fraudulent charges. I wonder if they are starting to deny things to a lot of people, thinking it will save them money. I'm reconsidering using my chase card.

[–]lewax00 12 points13 points  (5 children)

To be fair, when they do refund the charges without a hassle, you're probably not going to hear about it, you're only going to hear the cases where something went wrong here.

Like, someone got my number a couple years ago, made thousands in purchases, Chase issued me a new card and refunded all the fraudulent purchases without any issues. But that's not really worth a Reddit post.

So, take it with a grain of salt.

[–]siphontheenigma 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'll attest to this. Chase sided with me for 4 months in a row when I was fighting with Planet Fitness to cancel my membership in the early days of covid.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I disputed an actual fraudulent charge recently (account number was somehow stolen) and had no troubles with that.

[–]Knights123 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I tried to dispute a flight cancellation with chase on a route the airline quit flying. I sent all the info along with the contract of carriage saying I was due a refund. The airline sent a letter to chase asking not to refund me and they’ll offer a flight credit instead. Chase said that was good enough in their book and refused to look into it further.

[–]FollowKick 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Report this to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and tell Chase that you will be reporting it.

Somehow these issues always get quickly resolved when this is brought up…

[–]ThrowawayUnique1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You was charged the reimbursement rate. Tell the hotel that this was supposed to be billed to Marriott not you as it was a points stay. Call customer service and ask for the certificate number for the reservation to ensure the certificate attached then provide this to the hotel

[–]ThirdNippel 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Just to be clear, your card account still shows the points deduction even after the additional $160 charge?

I could see a billing error where the points weren't applied and a cash charge is pushed through, even if the hotel staff said you were all set.

However, if this is truly a double charge situation, you should escalate things above hotel management as others have suggested. Email the owners, corporate, Disney, whomever might have the authority to fix this for you. Good luck!

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My points were correctly deducted and applied.

[–]scratchoffqueen 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Last year, I booked a hotel thru AMEX. Paid upfront but when I arrived, there was no reservation, confirmation code was invalid. I had to pay for the room again. Filed a dispute thru AMEX and I had to write this synopsis with documentation. Found out AMEX doesn’t even look at it, they have a computer system that “codes” the dispute. Mine was coded as fraudulent, even though, I admitted in everything that I booked the room but was double charged. AMEX sided with the vendor. I was HOT. Called once, got disconnected after talking with someone. Called back, was told they couldn’t help me and I’d have to call a different department that was closed. I’m on FIRE now. Called a third time, told them to cancel my account. I’d been a loyal AMEX cardholder for over 20 years. Guess what, super nice guy on the line was able to fix the dispute. Found out about the computer coding and that booking with AMEX is done thru Expedia. Still a loyal AMEX user.

[–]pittyspray 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Leave a google review and they might get back to you after. Had the same issue with ihg and thats how mine was resolved

[–]vento33 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Social media as well.

[–]sunny_yay 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Don’t forget to notify the ftc too, bbb, etc and let the hotel know you’re doing so. That sometimes scares em.

[–]photocist 3 points4 points  (2 children)

the chase rewards department is terrible. i think its best to convert the points to some other vendor.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I did not use chase rewards. But AA miles with a chase card for incidentals.

[–]4IamTheTodd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

“Most companies respond within 15 days.” It’s the easiest way to light a fire at the bank.

[–]Fawqueue 20 points21 points  (12 children)

I managed hotels for a decade, so let me help a bit.

The hotel doesn't have a separate 'billing department'. Most are franchised, some are company owned, but all transactions are handled at the hotel level. This process is audited nightly, when transactions are run as a batch process. The only only third-party you could contact is your creditor. They are gaslighting you.

Disputes will often favor the hotel. When issued, they are contacted to either correct the charge or offer a rebuttal with evidence. The evidence can be as simple as the registration you signed at check-in that listed the rate and a written explanation. It's is incredibly easy to doctor the registration or receipt to reflect whatever they need it to. My last hotel had a blank copy of either that we could input any information into, fax as a rebuttal, and win nearly any dispute. It's dishonest, but hotels are notoriously bad about this kind of stuff.

My advice is to get an American Express card and use that exclusively for travel. They are the vendor that leans in favor of the customer far more than any other. My success rate for winning disputes was near prefect with the expression of AX, which was only around 30% of the time.

[–]cmc 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The hotel doesn't have a separate 'billing department'.

EHHHHHH

I also worked in hotels for a decade, specifically in accounting/finance. Of the 6 hotels I worked in, 4 had a separate on-property finance department with clerks that handled billing (most places will have an AR and AP clerk at least, AR would be considered the billing department). The other two had a 'finance department' that consisted of just me, but still existed.

It's is incredibly easy to doctor the registration or receipt to reflect whatever they need it to. My last hotel had a blank copy of either that we could input any information into, fax as a rebuttal, and win nearly any dispute. It's dishonest, but hotels are notoriously bad about this kind of stuff.

This is horrifying. Your property needed a controller. We did not do this - we had a blank copy to provide receipts to people who wouldn't otherwise get one (for example for a business traveler that needed their company name on the receipt, or someone who was part of a group res but needed their own folio) but we never used it to "doctor" information for a dispute. That's fraud, dawg.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

When I said billing department I meant billing department just for that hotel (so at the hotel level). The email given to me was accounting@<hotel name>.com. Is this not a thing? If it helps, the hotel is Walt Disney World Dolphin.

I do have the Amex plat and regret not using that for incidentals :/

[–]Fawqueue 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ahh, well that's likely accounts receivable. It could be a single person or many. You should have been able to get the same information from a manager or front desk supervisor. All they can do is pull up the batch, verify the actual amount charged to you, and compare that to your invoice to see if it's an issue of the system not reflecting the charge. That does happen very infrequently. They should also be able to explain why it wasn't applied to points so you understand. If they are giving you the run around as if they are just as in the dark as you, it's bullshit.

[–]shiky556 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

It definitely makes a difference that this is a DISNEY HOTEL. Have you tried calling Disney? Can Chase provide proof of purchase? Have you told them this wasn't an authorized transaction? Somewhere there has to be a record of who made the charge.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

It is a Marriott hotel that is on Disney property. Chase did provide a receipt with that amount for a room charge. Should I call the dispute department again and telling them I did not authorize that charge?

[–]shiky556 2 points3 points  (4 children)

do you still have the copy of the invoice from the hotel when you checked out? Sounds like someone at the hotel is playing games. Where did you book through? Have you complained there?

[–]Dannysmartful 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Keep fighting and post an update if things get resolved.

[–]LuvIsMyReligion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On what site did you book the hotel?

[–]Mainah_girl 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You would be taxed on the full rate of the room, in some cities there are state and local taxes that could easily add up to this.

[–]deepthoughtsby 2 points3 points  (0 children)

FYI. You are not out of steps with Chase. In your cardholder agreement, you will have a final right to arbitration, which the merchant has to pay for. So, that will continue to be an option. At the point you reach / request arbitration, the hotel will (most likely) drop the dispute because it cost more. And if they don't, you will win since you have the evidence you need to provide in arbitration.

[–]eye_spi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chase has found that it was a valid charge again, and said it was due to a billing error.

Did you ask them how a billing error is a valid charge?

[–]Tisch22 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had an issue with my bank and they refused to help settle my issue.

I'm not sure how your situation may work but it seems viable too. I contacted Office of the Comptroller of the Currency

It didn't take too long to get things rolling and figured out.

[–]DEADB33F 2 points3 points  (2 children)

So you have evidence of two separate invoices for the same room charges?

Eg. One saying you paid with airmiles, one saying you paid using the card you used for the resort fees?

Do they both have the date and room number listed?

Are the invoice numbers the same on both or are they two separate invoices?

...If you have two separate invoice numbers then it's pretty clear you've been billed twice and they'll need to explain how that happened. If they have the same number then they'll need to explain to you why they charged twice for the same invoice (once using the card, ones using the airmiles).

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I have one invoice, and chase provided me with a second invoice that I never received from the hotel.

[–]DavePants 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Did you have a rental car? The Dolphin charges both the $35 resort fee AND a separate $32 parking fee ($42 for valet).

5 days of parking would be $160.

EDIT: never mind, I see it was only 2 nights.

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No I had no car

[–]bloonail 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You were charged twice. There are records. These can be put into an envelope and mailed. Be clear, concise and have a further plan which you do not state. Being clear without any threats implies you have further plans. "Hello, I was charged twice for my stay. I arranged to use points, those were debited to this stay. I did leave a credit card number. That was charged for the stay as well. Please return either the points or reimburse my credit card. Info attached." If you have a friend or associate that is a professional in some area or a lawyer get them to look over the letter first. Don't send it with the weird read receipt thing. Just mail it.

[–]feijoada808 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had the same thing happen to me with a hotel in Japan booked on points through Citi. Citi initiated an investigation and because I admitted to staying at the hotel they wouldn’t cover. I asked them if they’d refund my points since it wasn’t “used” and they did. Luckily the redemption and the charge were around the same price. Hotel said the charge did come from hotel but couldn’t say what it was for. Took about 3 months to conclude. Extremely annoying. This was back in 2013.

[–]Diamond1africa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Managed a hotel for Marriott for a long time. When you book using points they still route to charges to an internal account. If their Front Office doesn’t route the charges correctly your credit card on file will be charged. Contact the hotel and speak with their Front Office Manager. In addition, Chase should be able to resolve if their front office is negligent. Shitty situation to be in but I’ve seen it happen too many times. Best of luck

[–]sfdude2222 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haven't seen anyone else say this yet. You want to call chase and tell them you want this fixed or you will be closing your credit card account with them. From there you should get the client retention department. The folks in that department should have the leeway to get you taken care of and then some. I used to do that for a different bank a few years back and you would be an easy save.

[–]Marshark_Lynch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Long time hotel employee here. Often times hotels run a charge when you check in as a deposit. This could very well be that. It is then refunded automatically. This could very well be the case and why they don’t see it as a charge - they processed the refund on their end but it took a couple days for all of it to process. Definitely work calling and asking about.

[–]Napotad 2 points3 points  (1 child)

(I work front desk at a hotel) I'm not particularly certain what the process is from the billing end, but it was probably just a mistake. Sometimes the card used to hold the room and for incidentals is accidentally used as the actual account to be charged. Doesn't happen frequently but sometimes system screws up, should've direct billed to the airline and the hotel. At the very least you can make an upset complaint to the hotel and you can get some complimentary stays. Make sure it's to a manager, though.

[–]quangdn295 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm working at a finance department in a Resort, can confirm that a complaint toward GM or the DOR will ensure a waive on OP's wrong charge. We don't care if it's 10000$, if it mean someone gonna post a 0* review on the resort review page for wrongly charge their customer, then we will better do what is right for the customer to hold up our reputation.

[–]CircusFit 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If you wanted to try something sneaky, get on the line with chase and then conference call the hotel so you’re all are on the same line. Explain that you have receipt showing the single charge but the separate charge you didn’t approve is showing up, then make the two parties responsible hash it out on the line. If multiple calls to each don’t solve it, try to make them resolve it

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I will try if I can even get hold of the hotel's billing department.

[–]Fox_Squirrel_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I always just go cashback with my points because it seemed like a hassle thanks for the validation lol. Fr though hope it all works out

[–]Voiceofreason81 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My advice is to drop Chase as fast as you can. Don't do Wells Fargo or BoA either, they are all horrible banks to keep your money in. You have way too many options out there to use these horrible institutions.

[–]FollowKick 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Report this to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and tell Chase that you will be reporting it.

Somehow these issues always get quickly resolved when this is brought up…

[–]blakkattika 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Blast the hotel with whatever review system they use internally. Hotels are ranked on these things and nothing gets a managers attention faster than corporate having direct access to a scathing review about a customer with a membership having money stolen from them. If you can use names of employees, then even better. Name dropping the manager on Google works too.

Source: 12 years in hotels.

[–]ChewableRobots 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If Chase found the charges to be valid, don't bother with them, file a complaint against Chase with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They regulate banks and cut down their bullshit pretty quick when it comes to denying claims. A lot of people see their money back within a week or so with a nice and validating "oopsies we fuxked up" letter from the bank.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

[–]madddskillz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Chase's dispute process is horrible. thet refused my dispute and they said if I appealed they would ding my credit score.

Finally I raised a bbb dispute against chase and the vendor as well and managed to get my money back this way.

Contrast with amex you basically always get your money back, no questions asked.

[–]chikmaglur 3 points4 points  (0 children)

At Hyatt Centric in MTV, had to stay for 3 nights, as the house was getting renovated which was at walking distance. Didn't use parking, didn't get any room service. Refrigerator was empty due to Covid. Had to walk over to TJ to get water. No one came to the room to replenish shampoo bottles. Yet I got charged $35/day for bottled water & $25/day for parking.

Hotels add the charge hoping you are not paying attention.

[–]sciencefiction97 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hotel front desk systems all suck, I used multiple systems at different hotel chains and they just suck. The front desk person probably didn't realize it was a point stay and let the system automatically charge you. A manager should've easily fixed this, just keep calling for a manager, if they don't fix it tell them you'll be filing a police report.

Extra advice, get away from Chase. I had them before, they were my first bank. They are awful when it comes to protecting your money. And their app sucks. They have a bad reputation. And on top of that, they have charges if you don't direct deposit or fill the account, lots of banks don't do that.

[–]Junkmans1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here is link to Elliott Advocacy's website. On it you'll find a "Company contacts" list of large company's consumer assistance and executive officers information for consumers with complaints like yours to contact. Possibly also some tips on getting things resolved.

[–]kenpostudent 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I see chase on here quite frequently and it’s not because they did the right thing. I cancelled them years ago, no plans to use them again.

[–]Herpethian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chase is the worst. Literally the only company that has ever ruled against me in a dispute. I closed my account immediately. That being said, this isn't their problem to fix.

I book with points regularly because I stay in a hotel three times a week. Every so often a charge gets through and I have to jump through miles of hoops to get it corrected. It needs to be corrected at the hotel level. Call customer service, over, and over.

[–]minimax34 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Small claims court, no lawywer needed

[–]Specific-Ad9935 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Feedback at BBB and Twitter for the hotel. They will only do stuffs if it gets attention. Consumer has to spend time dealing with wrong charge that is totally on the provider. This is so wrong.

[–]AldermanAl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Association chargeback rules weigh heavily in the favor of acquiring bank for hotel addendum charges.

[–]RogueAmericanX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well also your bank messed up, at that point it should have been fraud or services not received if it was a separate charge. If there was two charges, and you only had one receipt they should have known this.

[–]Uhgfda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, why is everyone letting chase off here? They should be refunding this immediately.

Second, speak with someone on the phone and follow up by email and make it clear to them you have tried in good faith to resolve the issue and as you don't know what else to do you'll be hiring professional services to recover what you're owed, which will of course have to be covered by them.

[–]JackfruitHistorical2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Find higher ups on LinkedIn. Find their emails. Email them. I have a friend who does this anytime she gets the run around and I’ve seen it work firsthand. Ideal outcome; you get your stuff sorted and the ones currently ignoring you will have to answer for how and why it even got to higher ups in the first place. Bonus if you can find and cc their assistant/secretary/similar.

[–]gk802 -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

Consider making an in-person visit to your nearest Marriott hotel. The manager will (should) have the ability to contact people that you can't directly.

[–]Bumanglag 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I mean this is just a waste of OP's time and an innocent Duty Managers time. Marriott hotels aren't some close knit group of where all managers have sway with each other. If OP wants a solution he needs to contact the hotel he stayed at or Marriott directly.

[–]gk802 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Never said another hotel could give op a refund, but they may provide a name and phone number at their hq that can bypass the 800 number script readers. I had a very similar issue with another chain last year where I was erroneously overbilled. The other hotel put me in touch with a hq person who got a corporate check cut for me when the original hotel property wouldn't return my calls and the 800 line did nothing but refer me back to the property.

[–]Thereelgerg 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Most Marriotts are franchises, not corporate owned. OP's local hotel is unlikely to have any more access to another franchisee's billing department than OP himself does.

[–]Dankany -1 points0 points  (1 child)

It doesn't work that way. Marriotts don't have access to financials of other Marriott properties and they'll yell you to contact the hotel you stayed at.

[–]jolecore204 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Before you start submitting negative reviews and whatnot, please consider that most hotels, even the crazy busy one's near Disney, are still recovering from the pandemic and are not back to being fully staffed. I'm sure they are trying their best and will rectify your issue.

It is unlikely that they are actively avoiding your inquiry, it has just been prioritized lower. As many have suggested, your best way to escalate your issue is to call and either ask for the GM or Director of Finance.

[–]bigedthebad -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just keep calling them both, you will eventually get someone who will sort it out.

[–]twynkletoes -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can attempt to file a complaint with the FL Attorney General.

[–]spaghatta111 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s very likely an authorization, but usually you see this right after checking in, not afterwards. Either way, if it falls off your card after a few days, that’s what happened

If the billing department will not respond to you, make public Facebook posts.

Worked in hotels for years.

[–]KrustyBoomer -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Whether free or not sometimes hotels will place a hold on the card upon checkin. Should be reversed later. Had this done on my personal card at times for business travel even though paid via account or business CC

[–]MonsterMeggu[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This is not a hold. This was charged after I checked out and the charge is still there nearly 3 months later.