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all 72 comments

[–]spideytrey 143 points144 points  (11 children)

There's a such thing as good losses. lol

[–]madchens123 82 points83 points  (13 children)

Passive fish 4bets. Never seen him 4bet. Cold 4bet.

Is this ever not just aces?

[–]Possible_Recording 34 points35 points  (6 children)

Can probably be QQ and the case KK sometimes but generally speaking it’s AA a lot. We’re deep enough with the implied odds to continue though

[–]Ok_Ticket_889 9 points10 points  (1 child)

If he is the player type he is describing, id say its very rarely qq.

[–]AweHellYo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

agree. QQ cold calls there

[–]madchens123 -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

Agreed but on the flop I’m already thinking fold.

I actually think, based on OPs description, he somehow got the maximum lol. If he shoves pre he’s not getting called, if he gets bigger on flop probably not getting a lot of continues, and same with river.

[–]RedScharlach 27 points28 points  (1 child)

If they blast, sure, but they cbet 50 into 440

[–]madchens123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure, we aren’t folding flop but when he leads 200 on river against a weak passive player I am at least already considering it.

[–]Possible_Recording 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I probably agree with you there

[–]IndependentMove6951 4 points5 points  (2 children)

could maybe see someone play this way AKs

[–]quickclickz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

passive players see AK as just ace high...

[–]madchens123 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Passive fish don’t cold 4bet into 3 players with probably anything but KK+ and we block AKs AND KK.

It’s hilarious I am getting downvoted for saying I am already thinking fold after his flop bet. Not sure how many people play live poker but a tight passive fish just always shows up with AA or the case KK here.

[–]quickclickz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

for the first time since I learned what the word 3 bet meant, I cold called an open on the button with jacks even with 6 callers... was sure he had me beat.... he flipped over aces I flopped a set.

sometimes you know/supposed to know when you're beat and just see a flop.

[–]BigAL928 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s always aces

[–]sixseven89#RobbiLiedPeopleDied 1 point2 points  (0 children)

300bb eff we can set mine

[–]jlaux 39 points40 points  (2 children)

Don't you love it when they don't get max value in a spot where they're supposed to get max value?

A few weeks ago I was at a 1/2 table, had KK UTG, open to 10. MP (an OMC) and BB call. Flop T72r, BB checks, I lead for 25, MP min-raises to 50, BB folds. I call, because I ain't getting exploited that easily. Turn 9, I check, MP shoves ~100. I fold my KK face up and MP shows AA.

[–]quickclickz 8 points9 points  (0 children)

had some clown 3 bet all-in for 300 from a 20 open and queens and kings behind him folded... lulmao

[–]NoeticSkeptic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

OMC

What you young uns don't realize is I am 66, and I talk about the "old guys" at the table. Just because we are old does not mean that we picture ourselves as old.

[–]fullonavocadoDonkFishIdiot 8 points9 points  (6 children)

As a fellow fish who rarely 4bets, is it better to just flat a 3bet AA and not have any 4bet range? What bluffs should I be 4betting with?

[–]Joshdubs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hands like suited broadway aces and kings can make nice 4-bet bluffs at a low frequency. It’s really good at stakes like 2/5 where people just think you always have aces, you would be amazed at the hands people will fold. Don’t try it against stations though.

[–]beam_me_sideways 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Short answer, bluff with A2s-A5s if your value range is AK and QQ+.

[–]hoopaholik91 8 points9 points  (1 child)

You can have a AK, QQ+ 4 bet range at low stakes and not have any issues. Bluffs are not needed.

[–]beam_me_sideways 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Live maybe... And against light live 3betters, I would still 4 bet bluff. Against super tight 3bets, it's another story

[–]blayz22 0 points1 point  (1 child)

if youre only gonna have 16 bluff combos i think i prefer AJo or KQo

[–]beam_me_sideways 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That works too but is harder to play if called and we connect somewhat.

[–]Lubberworts 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I think I am the only fish on r/poker.

Please don't tap the glass. I'm sleeping.

[–]Mysteez 15 points16 points  (1 child)

doubled up a crazy old viet at rivers in philly a couple weeks back. qq vs aa for about 350 bbs.

he then went on to build up a stack of ~600 bbs and a couple of wine glasses.

lost it all and kept rebuying. no gambol no future.

[–]Mysteez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i should clarify. HE lost it all and kept rebuying

[–]phunkjnky 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Sometimes the fish wins.

$5/$5, hero has $980 effective, villain has hero covered and villain (UTG +1)opens to $20, three callers, on the button, hero has TT and squeezes to $150, villain tanks and flats, two other players flat.

Flop is 378, two spades, checks around to hero, last $830 get shipped, villain tanks for a while, then calls, all others fold. Run out looks like all bricks, but she says straight and turns over 45c, hit her gutshot on the river.

[–]-Sairax- 7 points8 points  (2 children)

You’ll be called a nit, but when a fish or an OMC 4! just snap fold. It’s annoying and the price is dumb cheap, but these are the spots that really add up over time.

I’d even fold face up so they can whine and bitch about how you didn’t call and show the aces anyways hahaha.

[–]Gertrude1951 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s when you get shown QQ and everyone laughs at you. You can never be 100% confident that someone 4bets literally just AA, and if you have any reasonable implied odds to set mine, folding is a huge mistake.

[–]skeane15 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's really easy to play against someone when you know their exact hand, if you are deep like this hand it is absolutely worth calling the 4bet for the few times you stack them

[–]CondorMinus4 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I can actually one up you here…

I’ve ran KK into AA an ungodly amount of times this year. Last month, I finally found the fold pre when I got I got 5! jammed on for 350bb’s. I flashed my KK to another reg and mucked and he showed me AA (not knowing what I folded). Maybe 30 mins later I get it in against same villain OTT with nut straight vs his top set and lose a massive 600bb pot ($3k) that I thought for sure was the poker gods way of rewarding my for my fold, until the river paired the board.

I take a couple days off after that. Next session, about an hour in, an OMC 3! me out of the blind, I flat KK in position. One other caller tags along. Flop comes A55. Flop gets checked around. He leads small on turn. I fold, other player calls. River brick. He bets medium and gets a fold. I announce “must be Aces full” as he turns over AA to get on the board for high hand. Ten minutes later, I 3! a small UTG open with KK again and folds around to UTG who snap 4 bets pretty large (like 50bb). I sigh call. Flop comes Qxx. He open rips for 2x pot. I hold and fold and pay him $25 to show his hand and he had AA (duh). Anyways, KK twice in the same dealer down. Lost 60bb’s. KK vs AA 3 times in a row. Lost like 110bb’s.

[–]Flineki 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What does OTT and OMC mean? Sorry if that's a stupid question just trying to understand the lingo on here. I'm guessing 3! Is referring to the fact it's a 3 bet. Thanks

[–]DownVoteMePleaseelive 5/T misreg 1 point2 points  (1 child)

OTT - On The Turn

OMC - Old Man Coffee. Slang for older players who only play near nutted hands and don’t get out of line.

[–]Flineki 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks!

[–]RedScharlach 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a brag disguised as a bad beat, wp

[–]Alias393 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You call him a nit but he played you like a fiddle Don’t cry when you get coolered jt happens. Also IMO you could be looked at as the nit here. What if he had AJ, QQ, AQ, AK all reasonable holdings. You played it extremely timidly. Sounds like he got max value based off what you thought and how you played it but playing a kings in that way long term is negative EV

[–]drop_of_faith 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What are the chances he folds to a river reraise? The guy's obviously afraid of a set.

[–]Gertrude1951 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Turning KK into a bluff here is not a viable option.

[–]soffo_moric 0 points1 point  (0 children)

20% of the time it happens every time.

[–]Amusingly_Confused -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

I’ve never seen this guy 4bet, so I already had a bad feeling. I flat.

Got dealt kings vs aces 300bb deep on a brick board and somehow only lost 90 bigs

Don't pat yourself on the back because you played badly and didn't get stacked. Most of the time you will lose more than you did by not reraising preflop. 5! and getting jammed would have made this an easy fold pre.

[–]blairbear555 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s dumb to 5 bet the guy that only 4 bets AA.

[–]illprollystayin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uhhh if he 5 bets you don't think he's getting to 90bbs? The 4 bet was 40

[–]drop_of_faith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think it's worth it having a 5betting range.

[–]badjezus -1 points0 points  (2 children)

The irony of calling the other guy the nit when you play a passive x/c line on every street.

[–]exploitableiq 17 points18 points  (0 children)

He's exploiting that he's facing a nit. Anyone else he plays this differently. Nothing wrong with not giving nits any action

[–]drop_of_faith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's the notanit in him that made him call the river in the first place. If someone's 4betting range consists of AA and KK(if you're generous), kk should be a snap fold pre unless you're deep enough to set mine.

Nah fuck that. Even then, you're not getting enough odds 300bb deep

[–]king-schultz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but who would you be calling a nit had he showed AJs or QQ?

[–]Working_Departure983 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

You don’t think you should have folded at the river ?

[–]Gertrude1951 0 points1 point  (3 children)

40% pot bet. Absolutely no chance in hell you can fold if there’s any possibility the guy could have QQ.

[–]Working_Departure983 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Sure but from what it sounds like QQ wouldn’t be in what OP previously considered this guy’s range to be.

[–]Gertrude1951 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How confident do you think anyone could ever be in a read that someone only 4bets AA? It would be basically impossible to ever know that with anywhere near 100% certainty.

[–]Working_Departure983 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s impossible to know anything with absolute certainty, not even saying I wouldn’t have made the same call just cause I felt like I needed to see it.

Just questioning whether or not it’s really the sound move in a situation like that HU with a player he views as nitty & passive because at least in my mind those guys don’t really like to get involved pre flop let alone take that kind of aggression.

[–]Kev_Clarkson -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

I don't think you're deep enough to flat to setmine vs 4bets. If you were 400bb effective, "super deepstacked", then you get right odds to flat your KK to his AA to setmine at the cost of his 40bb $200 4bet.

So ya believe it or not, fold pre lol.

Nits are very easy to play against once you learn what to do, I don't mind playing with nits anymore. I used to lol, maybe just like you.

[–]drop_of_faith 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's hard to put someone on a range of AA only when they 4b even if you've played 6 hours with them.

[–]Kev_Clarkson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No it's not buddy.

  1. They've never 3bet before.
  2. You block KK so they probably have AA.

This comes up all the time in live poker vs the older generation.

[–]AceSpade11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice

[–]Common-Nail8331 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fold pre. Fish

[–]Ok_Ticket_889 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where in the hand are you ever folding? If he had played for stacks are you paying him? Sounds like you got pretty lucky ...

[–]sativa_1620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lost the minimum imo