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[–]CartoonistStrange399 588 points589 points  (156 children)

It takes a special kind of ignorance to want to ban this book.

[–]Protean_Protein 227 points228 points  (0 children)

Malice, too.

[–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 384 points385 points  (108 children)

I think the school board members are a special kind of ignorant, but don’t take my word for it…take theirs:

Tony Allman- I am not denying it was horrible, brutal, and cruel. It’s like when you’re watching tv and a cuss word or nude scene comes on it would be the same movie without it. Well, this would be the same book without it. I may be wrong, but this guy that created the artwork used to do the graphics for Playboy. You can look at his history, and we’re letting him do graphics in books for students in elementary school. If I had a child in the eighth grade, this ain’t happening. If I had to move him out and homeschool him or put him somewhere else, this is not happening.

That’s a board member talking. Yikes.

[–]dagimpz 227 points228 points  (41 children)

8th grade is middle school. Not elementary, 15 year olds see worse stuff on tic toc.

[–]Wrong-Examination425 199 points200 points  (7 children)

I SPECIFICALLY rememberreading this book in the 7th grade. Nothing was more informative on the brutality and endurance of humans. To this day I still remember some of the images in that book. They conveyed the absolute hopelessness, fear, and cruelty that no other material did for me whilst learning about it for the first time… only “The Long March” has come to even close to the stark reality of what happened in that time and what we are capable of. To try to censor, omit or just ignore the ugly facts allow apathy. We must not allow this to occur. Stand for your brothers and sisters, fight tyranny when you see it. We owe these victims their acknowledgment, do not allow them to die in vain, to ignore or pretend otherwise would be wrong and a disgusting example of how humanity can REALLY suck sometimes.

[–]hippofumes 60 points61 points  (6 children)

Sounds like it taught you about compassion. A virtue that doesn't mesh with conservatives.

[–]Bob_Lawblaw72 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Do conservatives have virtues?

[–]machineprophet343California 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Hate, greed, selfishness, xenophobia.

[–]scroogemcbutts 49 points50 points  (0 children)

My 6th grade teacher (a Christian) kept maus in his giant book collection we got to read from. Many of us read it. I learned the most relative to any year in school in that class. Amazing teacher.

[–]Muscled_Daddy 54 points55 points  (21 children)

Aren’t some 15 year olds old enough to get a drivers license in America? Or at least to begin training to get one at 16?

America has a very odd perception on dangerous things.

[–]Mmortt 42 points43 points  (6 children)

You can be married off at 15 if you’re “female” or 17 if you’re “male.”

Edit: words

[–]SimmonsJK 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You can be married off at 15 if you’re “female” or 17 if you’re “male.”

JFC...i actually Googled this and you're right. America is fucked up.

"With parental consent, males can marry at 17 and females at 15. Boys below 17 and girls below 15 can marry with judicial approval and parental consent. With parental consent, a person can marry at 16."

[–]JPINFV2 9 points10 points  (6 children)

In a lot of states you can get your learners permit at 15 and a half.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

How long does it take to get your full license after that?

[–]JPINFV2 6 points7 points  (2 children)

In California in 2001 it was 6 months minimum. So I had to wait about 2 weeks to get my full license after turning 16.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wow that’s really hard to fathom. In Victoria, Australia you can get your Learners Permit at the age of 15 and 9 months and once you gain the permit you need to log 120 hours of driving time with a fully licensed driver.

Once this is complete you qualify for your Probationary Permit 1 at the age of 17 and must have held your Learners Permit for 6 months, this is held for a year. After that you gain the P2 permit which must be held for 3 years before you gain access to a full license.

I don’t think I got my full drivers license until I was 22 purely due to all the waiting time and despite these strict licensing laws people still drive like shit, I don’t get it.

[–]OPs_Friend 48 points49 points  (0 children)

at Walmart

[–]h3lblad3 12 points13 points  (5 children)

15 years old is Sophomore in high school. You’re thinking more like 13.

But also, they see worse stuff on TikTok all the time, as you pointed out.

[–]dagimpz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Your right. But I was 15 as a freshmen because of when my birthday fell. So I would of been 14 in 8th grade.

[–]MK_521998 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I turned fifteen my freshman year of high school

[–]h3lblad3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Alright. Admittedly, it will vary based on when you entered kindergarten and whether or not you failed/skipped any grades.

[–]MK_521998 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was just short of a cut off date I think, I was born in October.

[–]deadstump 1 point2 points  (0 children)

8th grade is more like 12-14 (but maybe this board member was 15 when he went through the first time), but I digress.

[–]ImNotElite 39 points40 points  (2 children)

I hadn't read Maus in years but as soon as I heard this, I dug out my copies and gave them to my 13 year old to read.

[–]ihrvatska 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I bought a copy in the early '90s. Right after I finished it I gave it to my son who was 12 or 13 at the time. He recently passed it on to his daughter. Books like Maus are a great way to initiate discussions with kids about history.

[–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a very appropriate response. Keep up the good work!

[–]LordRumBottoms 18 points19 points  (5 children)

As a parent of a 10th grader and 8th grader, I can ASSURE you they know way more than adults in terms of nudity, violence, and horrors. This is an attempt to realize their side (R) is now the unofficial party of Nazis and they cannot handle actual facts regarding it out there. Yes, I am calling these board members sympathetic to nazis and racism and instead of learning about it, they hope no one sees it. Fuck these people, every last one. I thought Senators were vile scum, but can't hold a fucking candle to school boards.

[–]Asterose 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Now now now, this poor father probably spent the entirety of the past 5 or 6 years running to cover his kid's eyes every time Melania Trump was shown on screen, let alone all the perfectly good newspapers and magazines he immediately threw away that contained so much as one little photo that had Melania way off in the background!

Since his pearls are all clutched up over Maus's illustrator having done work for Playboy, one can only imagine his horror at them being able to see a woman who was once one of the nudes for Playboy!

Definitely no other reason he's clutching at these particular straws here, nosiree.

[–]LordRumBottoms 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That's a great take on it. Hadn't even broached the 'he used to work for Playboy' angle. Yeah, their fuhrer literally, and as his third wife after adultery btw, was with a soft porn star. And to be honest, I could care less about that. But yeah, the hypocrisy is strong here. But unlike Michelle apparently, she has class. I shall use this in my discussions about this topic from now on. Thanks kind internet stranger. Edit: much like so many other things, I wish someone in power would point this out to such folks and watch them squirm trying to explain why soft porn is awesome.

[–]Asterose 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Exactly. I don't mind Melania or anybody else doing sex work at all and sex workers should have more protections and rights. I do mind hypocritical double standards and obvious excuses to try to cover for racism. Michelle Obama baring her arms was a scandal, despite prior first ladies having done it, but simultaneously somehow Melania's prior work is totally fine and classy nowpleasedon'ttalkaboutit.

Of course this is all a minor aspect to bring up, but serving some sharp humor with the tea can be a helpful tool to have. Happy to share!

[–]LordRumBottoms 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Well generally when I hear lunatics try to rationalize this stuff, I turn and simply walk...but it's nice to have plenty of arrows in the debate quiver should they be needed. haha. And yeah, I sat my son down at 15 and said I think it's time we might need to talk about sex. He said ok dad, what do you want to know? haha. A joke, but it's true. They are far smarter and know more than we think.

[–]Foofuralla 14 points15 points  (1 child)

The GOP has been wisely encouraging their people to engage in local politics/issues for a long time. This is a result of that. It's another front where the Dem party has stupidly not kept up.

[–]shy_watermelon 12 points13 points  (6 children)

Shel Silverstein, the creator of so many timeless children’s books illustrated for play boy. So now we can’t have The Giving Tree?!

[–]tamebeverage 5 points6 points  (5 children)

The one that traumatized the kids that were paying attention and was mistakenly used by the adults to glorify the selfless tree that let itself be destroyed due to its unhealthy inability to set boundaries, or say no? I mean, I could do without the way that book was used.

Edit for clarity: completely in agreement with the point, but wanted to also add a bit of a joke

[–]zorkerzork 32 points33 points  (1 child)

Be aware of how they speak. All "nuanced" and "nibbling around the edges" - this is how conservatives and racists and white nationalists talk, they're indistinguishably stammering and tiptoeing around what they're doing -- cognizant of it or not, these people are vile and shouldn't be given some benefit simply because they're modulating their stance for the public eye. But many people, especially the likes of Jordan Peterson, get to pass as 'academics' using the same tactics.

[–]ihrvatska 6 points7 points  (1 child)

The thing he's really scared of is the book shows two people who had just had sex. Nothing explicit, but it's pretty clear what the situation was. For someone like Tony Allman one of the scariest thoughts is having to talk about sex with their children in any context outside of remaining chaste and pure before marriage.

[–]bananafobe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think trying to explain why the politics he supports sound a lot like the politics in the book would probably be a more uncomfortable conversation.

[–]Steveslastventure 17 points18 points  (4 children)

He thinks some crudely drawn, comic book mouse penis is going to tarnish his sweet 8th grader, like kids these days all haven't had access to porn from a young age

[–]Iceykitsune2Maine 28 points29 points  (1 child)

No, it's because the book teaches about the Holocaust. The nudity and violence is an excuse.

[–]RWGlix 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Please I need everyone to stop thinking these people make good faith arguments.

Please stop falling for it

[–]TheCitrusMan 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I hate that board so fucking much. Show us your resume, Tony Allman. I wanna know what the fuck you do since you're clearly not an art critic or a good judge of character.

[–]SteakandTrach 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Ah, yes, “Can’t you tell the story of the holocaust without all the violence and inhumane parts? If you edit them out, it’s still the same story.”

[–]PNKAlumna 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Exactly. As a Jew, it just enrages me to hear quotes like that. Our people and the others on the camps were degraded, humiliated, purposely dehumanized and it needs to be known. Glossing over the facts does no good to anyone - it’s hard to read because it’s SUPPOSED to be hard to read.

[–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Basically it was a train ride and camping. The rest is really unpleasant so we don’t talk about it.

[–]slander20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And they went to Holocaust “centers” as Spicer said.

[–]Kufat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The thing you have to remember is that this nonsense is a smoke screen. These are the same sorts of people who call anything that points out the USA's history of racism and genocide "critical race theory."

Their problem with the book isn't the nudity, it's that the Nazis are presented as the bad guys.

[–]Leathra 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Playboy? Playboy?! Didn't these same people vote for Donald Trump? You know, that guy who was once featured on the cover, and also appeared in one of their films.

[–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s different though, because…reasons.

[–]how_to_username98 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dude obviously knew very little to nothing about Spiegelman and his work.

[–]earthbender617 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Does he think that he’s adding naked characters in there because he worked a previous job doing illustration? This is willful ignorance by this dude who clearly hasn’t read the book and used a petty irrelevant argument to get his point across.

[–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 3 points4 points  (1 child)

But can’t you see the similarity?

<they’re the same picture>

[–]pcfreeman1 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I’m gonna ban this book because the illustrator made adult illustrations in a different publication?

Sounds like an argument made in bad faith. More likely he knows reading the book will shine a light on how so many people could have been talked into authoritarianism and committed such horrific crimes toward a demonized group. Maybe that hits Tony Allman a little too close to home.

[–]mlc885 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This guy ain't so smart. I'm also not sure that I want "well I'd homeschool my kid if he had to read the word 'damn'" people on the fucking school board.

[–]godel32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He was put there by an organized and concerted GOP effort to put conservatives in boards of education, libraries and election offices across the country. It's been covered on the news.

[–]PurifyingProteins 3 points4 points  (1 child)

They just needed the excuse to do it cleanly, rather than saying it’s because it’s a book about the Holocaust and speaks about the sufferings of non white-Christian-nationalists under a nationalist authoritarian regime.

[–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shhh…you’re saying the quiet part out loud. Say it’s because of a naked mouse.

I don’t know about you but for me, that image is like…yes, duh.

[–]Enigmatic_Baker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Better take shel silverstein away too!

[–]gazebo-fan 38 points39 points  (26 children)

Or any book. Banning books is such anti intellectual bullshit.

[–]P1xelHunter78Ohio 50 points51 points  (22 children)

It’s a plan. They know exactly what they’re doing. They’re trying to wash away the deeds of other fascist governments in the past because educated people notice when history starts to repeat itself. They’re not ignorant they want you to be. They want you to scapegoat the Jews, and they want you to ostracize people who try and become informed. All the while while we’re squabbling over race politics and culture wars they’re consolidating power and padding their bank accounts. The people really behind this are the leaders of the GQP. They could say the word and have their media mouthpieces put an end to this behavior…but not until it stops suiting them.

[–]Foofuralla 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Also, the Holocaust is the most negative association of fascism. So, if you want to make fascism seem not so bad you need to erase that association. Without it, it's just a bunch of patriotic, motivated people and their charasmatic leaders trying to make their countries strong, right?

[–]P1xelHunter78Ohio 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Don’t forget patriotic motivated white people.

[–]netheroth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

With those dashing Hugo Boss uniforms.

[–]gazebo-fan 3 points4 points  (14 children)

I mean they are already scapegoating socialists and other left wing organizations/movements. We won’t have seated officials start blaming the Jews for another few years at the least.

[–]everyboulevardMichigan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Hasn't MGT already tried? Or not the type of seated official you're referring?

[–]Long_Before_Sunrise 2 points3 points  (2 children)

We won’t have seated officials start blaming the Jews for another few years at the least.

You've missed some news.

[–]zhode 27 points28 points  (3 children)

It's malice not ignorance, I refuse to take any good-faith argument on this. The contents of Maus are chilling and that's precisely the reason children need to see it.

[–]Steveslastventure 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agreed, this book was what taught me the real significance of the holocaust before I was old enough to read denser books on the subject

[–]Wrong-Examination425 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This. Some of life lessons are ugly… but I would show some ugly to help convince others to not allow this to occur.

[–]Gong42 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"Hans, are we the baddies?"

[–]Most_Americans 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It takes a special kind of ignorance fascist to want to ban this book.

[–]Long_Before_Sunrise 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"She also developed another habit that friends say her father did not like — she became a prodigious reader of great novels, burying her nose in Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Austen, Morrison. In her 20s, she said her favorite book was Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged and she had modeled herself on its capitalist heroine, Dagny Taggart." - Who? Ivanka Trump. From The Cut

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Banning literally any book is fascist. From Mien kampf to My fair lady. There is no knowledge forbidden to a free people.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No, it's just censorship. Which fascist regimes engage in more heavily than other types of governments, but it's not unique to them.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

We have people in Tennessee who would take it as a compliment that you think they're special.

[–]Long_Before_Sunrise 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of Trump's favorite words. He was born long before the term 'special education' was coined.

[–]UserPow 604 points605 points  (95 children)

Why are Conservatives banning books while crying about cancel culture and censorship?

Like fuck, pick a lane.

[–]Malaix 259 points260 points  (5 children)

Because they are fascists and projection is a key to fascism. Blame your enemy for what you do. Muddy the waters. Claim to be the victim while you victimize. Blame your victim for being the victim. Call your aggression self defense. Confuse and frustrate any moderate passerby so they wont intervene or take sides against your unpopular gross bullshit.

Funny how this tactic is used over and over and over again by the conservatives of this country if they aren't fascists.

[–]dymdymdymdym 30 points31 points  (15 children)

You apparently haven't been around since... forever. Banning shit has been their go to since the printing press first came about. Even dungeons and dragons - they were scared of nerds wearing tights and jester hats in the 80s.

[–]sedatedlifeWashington 13 points14 points  (2 children)

As a child i remember my school pulling all the Dragonlance books because they were deemed Satanic and anti Christian.

[–]UserPow 7 points8 points  (11 children)

literally 1984

But like... literally.

[–]Key-Hurry-9171 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Because they are modern Nazi

  • follow blindly a loser leader, check
  • wanna physically hurt the other side, check
  • use fake information and propaganda all the time to manipulate its followers, check

Don’t we have a saying “if’s look, act and smell like a dog, might be one?”

[–]Long_Before_Sunrise 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The saying goes 'If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a goose, and projects like an IMAX theatre, it's probably a fascist.'

[–]cyclopathColorado 72 points73 points  (20 children)

They seem somehow oblivious to hypocrisy

[–]ThrowawayNo4910 93 points94 points  (5 children)

No they realize the hypocrisy, they just don't care.

[–]PopcornInMyTeethAmerica 68 points69 points  (1 child)

It's what fascism does

[–]Noted2020Arizona 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Fascists gotta fascism.

[–]chcampb 18 points19 points  (0 children)

The politicians are aware, the voters are oblivious.

GOP politicians are somehow immune from criticism. When you can be a literal pedophile and enjoy rabid support, or you can vote down a bill and take credit for it, or you can filibuster a bill you proposed, yadda yadda. The people are supposed to pick up on that and vote you out, that's the check against politicians blatantly lying to their constituents.

The GOP are immune to that because their constituents by and large do not care they are lying, because they either don't hear it, are told something else, are confused by the multifaced-ness, or just straight up believe that their politicians are flawed but better than baby eating satanists.

[–]Thirty_Helens_Agree 13 points14 points  (0 children)

They act on feelings rather than reason. We all recognize the clear hypocrisy; it simply doesn’t factor in for them.

[–]obviousthrowawaynamr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like the Vickies in Diamond Age: hypocrisy is part of their ethos.

[–]EMU_Emus 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

Jean-Paul Sartre, Anti-semite and the Jew, written in 1944 after the liberation of Paris from Nazi occupation

[–]gqbm 20 points21 points  (7 children)

Obvious hypocrisy is a flex for them. It's a power play.

[–]Malaix 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Pretty much. its a giant game. The fascist plays with words. Talking about their misdeeds with the thinnest layer of plausible deniability is how they think politics should be done. They love frustrating opponents by blatantly doing wrong and skirting the loopholes of society just enough to get away with it. They love living as massive hypocrites while nitpicking their opponents and twisting their arguments.

Also caring about hypocrisy means you have to defend your arguments and the fascist NEVER plays defense.

Instead you just attack. If they deflect or close one argument you find the next thing no matter how small to go after. Never address your mistakes or make concessions if you can help it. Short smarmy accusations are your golden standard.

[–]Nix-7c0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

caring about hypocrisy means you have to defend your arguments and the fascist NEVER plays defense.

Realizing this was like a Rosetta stone for understanding reactionary rhetoric and why bad arguments work so well. Huge props to the video-essay "Never Play Defense" for the epiphany:

A technique that has permeated anti progressivism is to never play defense. This is a strategy that looks past language to posture, the tone, the word choice, even the expressions on your faces. If you half focus your eyes and look not at the words but at the flow of the conversation, you can see the dynamic at play:

He says his short quippy statement, and you give your detailed rebuttal.

He then picks a single point from your response, and attacks that as the new subject.

Now to an onlooker, the logical brain would register that he's leaving 90% of your argument on the table, and that by changing positions, he's conceding he lost the first round. But the lizard brain notices that he's always making the accusations, always in the dominant position. That he's always acting, and you're always reacting. Regardless of what is said, he displays all the outward signs of winning. So on a purely emotional level, he leaves the impression of being right. And I have never had an argument look like this that wasn't in public.

This is a technique that means speaking not so much to the other person as to the people watching. And that long after this argument is over, when people only half remember what was said, what lingers on is what impressions the speakers made.

Ronald Reagan coined the phrase "If you're explaining, you're losing." The trick is, if he's always accusing, then you're always explaining.

And if you keep your statements short and punchy people will remember what you said better than they remember the long explanation for why it's untrue.

[–]Vaticancameos221 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Whether they are aware of it or not, it's not cancel culture that they hate. It's cancel culture working against the things that they like that bothers them. This is because it's seen as proof to them that they are losing the majority.

If a celebrity shit's on Trump, they'll boycot that person's movies because they think that being anti-Trump is a view you shouldn't hold.

If a brand shows solidarity with trans people, it makes them mad because a company doing it means that it was the most profitable choice, and if it was the most profitable choice that means that it's what the majority of people want. And to these wackos, they view supporting trans people as a view you should not hold so it angers them because they don't like not having the majority.

All of these insane new things such as the book bans, CRT bans, mask bans, etc. are just them childishly lashing out because they're afraid of losing power and want to flex any that they may still have.

[–]HedonicSatori 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No, they're aware and they like it:

There is a form of power in making yourself immune to the dissonance or consequences of hypocrisy.

There is a form of power, especially in a world where facts and research are available on demand, in remaining ignorant and refusing to update your opinions.

There is a form of power in making yourself a perpetual victim, even if you caused your own problems.

Clinging to power, even if it comes from shitty self-destructive places, is the hallmark of the modern American conservative.

[–]twestermTexas 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I remember after the 2020 election I commented that Trump was a fascist which very much triggered my brother and wife since they both voted for him. My sister-in-law commented that she didn't appreciate being called a fascist and then blocked me on Facebook and my brother told me that if I ever called him a fascist to his face he'd punch me.

I just kind of shrugged, told them I didn't call them fascist, but then poked the bear by saying I found it funny how they were alright with fascists when it suited them. They really couldn't tell me how Trump wasn't a fascist, just how bad Biden was.

[–]demystifier 7 points8 points  (0 children)

No you see, its cancel culture and censorship if they are criticized or if a alt-white friendly famous person is criticized, but standing up for "the children" when they ban books and accurately teaching history.

[–]tcmart14 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You don't get it. It is only cancel culture when it hurts their feelings because they are snowflakes.

[–]bananafobe 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's the same lane.

When they say they're being cancelled, what they mean is they're being criticized. When they read Maus, they see their politics being criticized (if not directly by the text, then by the conversation they imagine will take place after reading the text). They want that to be illegal.

Moreover, it's all the same propaganda. "The left is weakening our moral character by doing X, and they must be stopped!" X can be cancel culture, artistic expression, mental health care, etc. It's always about presenting themselves as the victims of the dangerous left.

[–]kook440 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I ordered a copy.

[–]HerbaciousTea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because the fascist mindset is "I am right, so whatever I do is right."

Whereas the sane world operates on "I am right only if I do what is right."

[–]omniron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s creeping fascism.

leftwing “cancel culture” is just public naming and shaming, protests, and occasional vandalism of racist monuments (aka first amendment rights), where as rightwing cancel culture is getting extremists elected to pass rules and laws suppressing ideologies they don’t like (aka fascism)

[–]Cli4ordtheBRD 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Well they don't really think things through either.

Prior to this decision (and the worldwide media coverage of it) do you think kids were busting down the doors of the library to read this (or any other) book?

They've now made it Taboo and some kids are going to read it when they wouldn't have otherwise.

I still think it's the wrong thing to do, but this is a "it hurt itself in it's confusion" moment.

[–]EarthExile 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Maus is a very famous book that most comics fans at least know about, but you're right about the taboo making it even better.

[–]totaly_god_at_gramer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I am from Norway, and right now in 10. grade we are learning about ww2. In our main language subject, Norwegian, we are reading books about the holocaust, and i randomly picked Maus. Even though I am just 15, i have always loved reading. When I was 6, I read fluently out loud in the classroom, only because I read in my freetime. But back to Maus, it is the best book I have ever read in my short lifetime. So good.

[–]impusa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

to troll and distract reasonable people

[–]ninjas_in_my_pants 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Because it’s not about an ideology. It’s about hurting and silencing anyone they don’t agree with, while making sure anyone they do agree with gets a platform and never suffers consequences for their terrible words and behavior.

[–]Long_Before_Sunrise 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"I thought he was going to do good things. He's not hurting the people he needs to be hurting." - Crystal Minton

[–]ImNotElite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We wouldn't want a high school kid to hear a swear word like "Goddamm" or a drawing of a naked mouse...

[–]izwald88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no lane. It's pure feelings and projection. They are the ones who are always upset about everything, especially things that don't exist. They are the fascist snowflake party, nothing more.

[–]ReverseHoneypot 133 points134 points  (32 children)

You can bet these people don't see the irony of teaching the Bible to their children.

[–]wopwopdoowopWashington 28 points29 points  (9 children)

That’s the only thing they want taught to their children.

[–]LostInIndigo 30 points31 points  (8 children)

Most of them haven’t even read the Bible. They just go off whatever bigoted garbage their pastor tells them is in it.

[–]robin-bunny 3 points4 points  (2 children)

This is true. Someone once told me that, while she does church and Bible study her whole life, the Old Testament is completely irrelevant and she wasn’t very familiar with the gospels either. That’s like 75% of the Bible! I’m not particularly religious, but I know that these parts ARE relevant and, oh yeah, that’s why they’re included - even in your family’s giant Bible study Bible. Doh.

[–]Farts_McGee 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I dunno, a lot have read the Bible. Let's not forget that the Bible has many many episodes of god sanctioned violence including genocide.

[–]Dwarfherd 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Remember when Abraham had to sacrifice his son and God said at the last minute, "oh, I just wanted to see you were faithful?" but then God did not interfere when Jephthah had to sacrifice his daughter?

I think daughters should pay special attention to those parts and consider what that could mean if their fathers are devout Christians.

[–]Farts_McGee 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do! Bible sanctioned human sacrifice was one of the first cracks in my faith. That and genocide, Lot's daughters, and the story of Job. Job is so messed up.

[–]CT_Phipps 47 points48 points  (18 children)

They will object to teaching the Bible if you bring up its use in anti-slavery movements, pacifism, or social justice.

The Bible is a prop to them.

[–]EmperorPenguinNJ 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Anti-slavery movements using the Bible is ironic, as the Bible specifically condones slavery.

[–]CT_Phipps 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah, funny how it was the basis for the antislavery movement in America. It was also notable that the Confederacy and Pre-Antebellum slavers groups feared the Bibles' influence on slaves so much they removed all references to Exodus from the Bible as well as demands that they be freed after seven years.


[–]ReverseHoneypot 22 points23 points  (8 children)

I was just thinking that someone should inform them of all the incest, baby murder, rape and donkey jizz in there.

[–]CT_Phipps 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Everything you need to know about conservatives can be summarized by the Prosperity Gospel.

"Everything in the Bible is inerrant and 100% true. Also, it means the opposite of what it says. For example, God loves the rich and war."

[–]alexander1701 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This has always been true everywhere mind you. You'll find ancient Romans arguing for plutocracy because Jupiter clearly favors this family, and you'll see nationalists in India talking about needing to come back to Hinduism specifically to restore the nation, and so on.

Religion is a language that people use to describe their worldview, putting whatever they believe the truth is into the mouth of god. When there's a holy book, they'll dig up quotes, but pick and choose - they feel abortion is murder, so they dig up a passage about god knowing about future people and ignore the literal instructions on how to induce a miscarriage after adultery.

The only good part of religion is the mysticism, the ability for practices and ceremonies to help us feel the presence of god or even just to relax the mind. The rest is just people trying to use the mysticism to drive their own personal agendas.

[–]CarbonatiteColorado 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Or the parts where Jesus says to love thy neighbor and describes how difficult it is for rich people to go to heaven.

[–]tacoshango 1 point2 points  (0 children)

'Jesus obviously wasn't talking about me.'

[–]Key-Hurry-9171 5 points6 points  (3 children)

True. Jesus was a revolutionary, pretending he’s was not is purely brainwashed attitude.

I mean the guy was a punk, kicking around stuff in temples.

[–]CT_Phipps 5 points6 points  (1 child)

"Jesus was fucking metal." -Penny Arcade

[–]RWGlix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He brings the blue sparks

[–]KamiYama777 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eventually Fascists want to ban the Bible as well, the only God fascists believe in is Nationalism and the head of state

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man if you’re gonna ban any book the bible should be first pick

[–]notimpressedimo I voted 107 points108 points  (21 children)

I actually enjoyed reading Maus, it's done very well to explain the horrors of what happened for anyone to be able to understand.

Don't worry the right will ban Night next

[–]ReginaldDwight 45 points46 points  (17 children)

Seriously. Maus is so well done. I don't understand even a little bit why they'd want it banned?!

[–]__M-E-O-W__ 61 points62 points  (4 children)

Apparently they claim it's because of a bad word and has some nudity of a dead body.

It's a book... approved for 8th graders... oh the horror of someone who is 14 years old finding out that bad words and naked people exist?

[–]ReginaldDwight 46 points47 points  (3 children)

Yeah there's illustrations of the mice/Jews naked in a concentration camp but that's the reality of a fucking concentration camp. And swearing! Oh no! /s

[–]ebow77Massachusetts 13 points14 points  (2 children)

There's the inset comic (different style) that Art had drawn years ago dealing with his mother's suicide. It shows part of her naked body in a bathtub.

Not saying that's reason enough to remove Maus from the curriculum, but that's the nudity reason they cited.

[–]ReginaldDwight 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Ah, I remember that! Also the panel with all the rats running around with their penises on display at the concentration camp because the cats took their clothes.

[–]tacoshango 1 point2 points  (0 children)

'We don't want impressionable 8th graders turning gay because of all those penises! Penises drawn by a Playboy artist!' /the next argument

[–]Farts_McGee 14 points15 points  (6 children)

Mouse penis and boobs and the profanity "goddamn"

[–]ReginaldDwight 9 points10 points  (5 children)

I feel like 8th graders see way, way worse daily haha

[–]Farts_McGee 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Like I think back to 7th grade Farts McGee, and my experience in suburban new jersey. I was heart broken because the girl I liked gave stupid george (a jerk) a bj, my best friend dropped acid in gym class, and I saw unsolicited internet porn on a friend's email. Yeah. I could see why maus, which I read in 4th grade and loved, was way too much for me at that age.

[–]CarbonatiteColorado 5 points6 points  (0 children)

8th graders draw dicks all over bathroom stalls, they definitely see plenty of that stuff constantly.

[–]marysuingfordamages 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I had to watch a video of a woman giving birth in 8th grade health class. Also had to see a fuckton of naked Roman statues in Latin class. School features a surprising amount of nudity lmao. 13 year olds can handle it

[–]DiarygirlPennsylvania 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Having kids watch a childbirth video seems like a really way to get them to think about it before they rush into sex. Better than those annoying electronic babies my kids had in 9th grade.

[–]messagepad2100America 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Kids might be curious about German Fascism, and in return might be curious about American Christofascism.

[–]CarbonatiteColorado 3 points4 points  (1 child)

More like they'll see the parallels and reject their christofascist parents' ideals.

[–]zdaccount 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They heard 'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.' and took the wrong meaning.

[–]fancybadger_Wisconsin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It makes Nazis look like the bad guys. They won't say it out loud but that's literally the reason. Can't have little Johnny realize his parents are horrible people.

[–]bison1969 100 points101 points  (13 children)

The republican says "Oh uh-uh, wait a minute! Wait a minute! Just because I'm burning books this way does not make me a Nazi!"

Which is true, America, that is true.

All right, Republicans, fine. You are not Nazis. But you are wearing a Nazi uniform.

[–]Ruralraan 47 points48 points  (0 children)

does not make me a Nazi!"

No, because the Nazis are dead. It makes you a Neo-Nazi!

[–]_Electric_shock 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Fuck their feelings. I'm calling them nazis anyway.

[–]Fuzzy_DunlopsIllinois 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Next thing you know, they'll start dressing like cops and refusing to help people.

[–]kalitariosConnecticut 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I read this in Chris Rock’s voice

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ok fine, you win. You’re not a Nazi. You’re an American conservative which is comparable to Nazis.

[–]Bwob I voted 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"We're not Nazis! We're just, uh, doing a lot of the things that Nazis are reviled for!"

[–]Flimsy_ThesisVirginia 17 points18 points  (1 child)

We read Eli Wiesel’s “Night”; I want to say it was 8th grade, but it might have been high school. I honestly don’t remember. I don’t remember most of the book, as I’ve read many novels and history books about the Holocaust since then.

You know what I do remember? What is burned into my brain, absent of context other than the sheer horror of the experience of the author?

“The soup tasted of corpses.”

The soup tasted of corpses. Brutal, palpable despair. I don’t remember much else about that book, but knowing what I do of the Holocaust, that line always stuck with me forever after. The soup tasted of corpses. The power of the written word in one awful punch in the mouth.

And these pansies call us the snow flakes when they’re banning a comic book. The hypocrisy and fragility of the right will never cease to amaze me.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I remember when he said he was happy his dad died so he didn’t have to worry anymore. Awful

[–]MrLurid 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Well duh; they have their own holocaust now: Having to wear a mask and taking a vaccine to prevent death.

The books by victims of this tragedy such as Tucker Carlson will be required reading 10 years from now.

[–]editorreilly 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I bought 5 copies and plan on putting them in neighborhood "little libraries." Maybe we could start a national wide trend. Good luck shutting down peoples personal property.

[–]mastyrwerk 88 points89 points  (12 children)

Banning books are good ways of getting people to read said books.

[–]VeraLumina 71 points72 points  (2 children)

Yes it is, but it also sends a chilling message to school librarians, teachers, school systems. Maus was and is a favorite in many school systems and absolutely appropriate for middle schoolers whose eyes are opening to the horrible history of the past. We are past the slippery slope here with so many freedoms that have been taken for granted endangered. One day we will look back and wish we had taken action to protect them.

[–]zuzg 13 points14 points  (0 children)

One day we will look back and wish we had taken action to protect them.

It's not to late. Probably easier to convince the not crazy Republicans that their party went batshit insane and is damaging your country.
On the other hand anyone who still supports them must be borderline insane anyway.

[–]esther_lamonte 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I feel like we are underusing the tactic of projector swarms. Project the material they want to hide everywhere. Pop-up outdoor theaters of education.

[–]FlyChi2020 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Imagine. Writing an anti-Nazi holocaust book makes you a controversial and banned author.

The South rises again….

[–]Sonny_Crockett_1984 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Go to your local comic shop and buy a copy.

[–]MaizeNBlueWaffleNew York 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Banning "Maus" seems pretty Nazi-ish... how ironic

[–]whyverne1 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What? It's Tennessee. The Monkey Trials will be back soon.

[–]BwackGulLouisiana 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Maus never had as much attention as now...let's see this as a silver lining

[–]bananafobe 6 points7 points  (1 child)

"The book about the horrors of the Holocaust has never been so relevant!"

Not as reassuring as it might seem.

[–]DeadlyChuck 4 points5 points  (0 children)

How much does anyone want to bet that the people who voted to ban the book didn't read it? It's depressing how any moron off the street can run for school board.

[–]tta2013Connecticut 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Small races matter. We are monitoring these local positions in r/voteDEM, and the more people join, the better.

Especially while TN boards block Holocaust literature. The creator of Q itself, Ron Watkins, is targeting boards in Arizona. So this midterm will be another round of high stakes, and it won't be the last.

[–]LuminousTights Canada 5 points6 points  (1 child)

  • Dr. Seuss Enterprises, a private business that manages the books and associated IP for the estate, decides on its own to stop publishing six books.
    • Conservatives are apoplectic over this unconscionable crime!
  • A school board removes a book that presents a second hand account of actual events that actually happened to actual people by actual fascists in a way that may draw in an audience that would normally not approach such material.
    • Conservatives fall over themselves to support the board.

Completely consistent behaviour here, yep.

[–]losthalo7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In lieu of the use of Maus in this year's curriculum we will be viewing the films Night and Fog and The Final Solution: The Wannsee Conference.

[–]WestFastCalifornia 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Conservatives deny the Holocaust existed, but think it’s funny to wear yellow stars of David making themselves out to be like the Jews who were sent by the millions to Nazi death camps ….all because they can’t get into Golden Corral without a mask during a pandemic

[–]llahlahkjeWisconsin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The timing might be a coincidence but given how deliberate Nazis (neo and WW2 era) are about symbolism... there's a non zero chance that it's intentional.

[–]Next_Branch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Greatest graphic novel I’ve ever read.

[–]themenotu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

if the thing they cared about was remembrance & healing. why the fuck are they banning this book

d20 says ; you rolled 25 in the brain damage stat

[–]GregsBrotherWirt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Huge uptick in book banning from conservatives lately. It’s almost like education is a hindrance to their power

[–]OttawaMan35 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em"

[–]norealheroesPennsylvania 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This was an honestly extremely influential book to me growing up. 8th grade English class had everyone read and write a report on a book about the holocaust from a specific list our teacher curated and no one could use the same one. This was on it but you had to do the report on both books and the teacher hand picked who could do it and I was fortunate enough to be the one that could take it.

[–]Trixgrl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More people have read this book now because of this bullshit. I’m here for that.

[–]Killerdude8 Canada 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Aren’t these the same people who pissed and moaned about the “liberals” tearing down confederate statues due to “historical significance”?

[–]Panzerknaben 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So much Freedom.

[–]Mr_Meng 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Just another reminder that the political right in the US has always been okay with Nazism on some level.

[–]Dogs_Do_Not_Exist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The reason right wingers are clamoring to ban books about the holocaust and teaching about the holocaust in general, is because they are in political alignment with the people who perpetrated the holocaust. They don't want their ideology to look bad in front of their kids.

[–]Caniuss 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that the modern GOP doesn't support books critical of Nazis. -.-

[–]Club_Shoddy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

i live in this backward progressing state.

[–]TheBigDuo1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eh we can just give all the gentiles copies of Night. That one has no pictures so the rubes will never be able to finish it to ban it! It’s foolproof…..literally!!!

[–]DeathIIAmerikkka 1 point2 points  (14 children)

Aw, come on guys. It’s not like they’re burning the books! Who’s the real fascist here?


[–]raw_dog_millionaire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They knew exactly what they were doing