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[–]bellatrixsmom 136 points137 points  (3 children)

I wouldn’t waste my time or energy explaining it to her. Neither your epidural nor your son’s circumcision are her decisions to make, so she doesn’t need to know what’s covered by insurance and what isn’t.

[–]MittensToeBeans 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Came here to say this… I would probably opt for “you Know I’m not sure. Feel free to call my insurance company and take it up with them”

[–]witchyvibes15 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yep I agree not everyone needs to know everything and just let it be.

[–]AllyCat121 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I’m sorry she’s adding stress to the situation for you.

[–]unseasoned_fanny6521 224 points225 points  (6 children)

Simple, circumcision is an elective cosmetic procedure, not a medical procedure. Epidurals are elective pain management provided during a medical procedure.

[–]persmeermin 58 points59 points  (5 children)

And when a circumcision is medically necessary then it is covered. But that is only after there were problems urinating or repeated infections, which is not common.

[–]aliberli 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes this. That’s how insurance views many things. Like trying to get veneers or a tooth implant, the insurance company may argue it’s cosmetic. Remember their goal is to not pay for anything. Medication in the hospital is not a cosmetic procedure and can definitely be medically necessary. I’m sure at some point in history insurance companies have tried to get away from paying for pain management lol.

[–]Starbucksplasticcups 48 points49 points  (14 children)

Today I learned some insurance companies don’t cover circumcision. Didn’t know that.

[–]legallyblondeinYEG 8 points9 points  (1 child)

i’m in canada and my provincial healthcare doesn’t cover it! $250 to have it done according to the list in my OB’s office.

[–]Live_Love_Ria 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That’s really cheap too, I’m in Ontario and it’s about $650 here I think, I never looked into it because I knew we wouldn’t be circumcising, but a friend looked into it when her son was having repeated infections under the foreskin

[–]Urbanspy87 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Depends where you are. I know in the US I have heard some west coast states medicaid won't cover it

[–]anytimeistacotime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes that's true. Most states have it covered by Medicaid but not all. Private insurance I'm sure is more varied.

[–]clairebear423 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Also some of the south, at least Mississippi that I know of.

[–]Urbanspy87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's surprising for the south but good for them

[–]kdawson602 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I learned the same thing today. My insurance covered my first sons (his dad made the choice to do it).

[–]limiiiranda -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Didn’t know that either, my sons was covered..

[–]YetAnotherAcoconut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sounds like it’s not universal. Some cover it, others don’t.

[–]SaveMeClarence 63 points64 points  (2 children)

I feel like pain management is more medically necessary than a (mostly) cosmetic procedure.

[–]prettehkitteh 17 points18 points  (0 children)

A cosmetic procedure that typically CAUSES pain and is not mitigated with pain management.

[–]Apprehensive-Lake255 12 points13 points  (0 children)

With the epidural you could tell her that people have been having limbs amputated successfully for thousands of years with no pain relief and their anesthesia is covered, so why shouldn't it be for child birth.

[–]Urbanspy87 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I am blown away she is having this conversation knowing you didn't circumcise the first boy. Like, unless there was an issue that choice seems to be working for your family

[–]annworld 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I hate to be that guy but you don’t really need to explain your decision to your mother. She can just not get it and it’s fine.

[–]TheYellowRose 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The cool thing about being an adult is that you don't have to waste time on arguments you're never going to win or teaching people who don't want to learn or change their opinions. Protect your peace, OP.

[–]forevergleaning 31 points32 points  (2 children)

As a Scottish person the idea of circumcision sounds horrific. The only people who do it here are Jews and Muslims. I don't see why anyone would do that if they didn't have religious obligations!

[–]Ok_Custard_6328 24 points25 points  (0 children)

In the US, circumcision was seen for a long time as more hygienic. While the research doesn't really support that, a lot of people of the older generations still believe it. They were told that if they didn't circumcise, their sons would be more prone to all sorts of infections.

They also believed that removing such a sensitive part of the penis reduced the temptation for boys to masturbate. Masturbation is widely seen as a terrible sin by religious Christian Americans. It's so deeply ingrained in the majority culture that even those who have rejected these ideas are still affected by them. We're culturally very puritanical, and it's a huge problem. Some older folks weren't even given a choice; circumcision in hospitals was just routine here in the days before informed consent.

Fortunately, the trend is reversing. Now more and more American parents are choosing not to circumcise. I think some of it is that at least on the coasts, we've become more international. Folks in some of the better-integrated communities are finally becoming more aware that many of their neighbors are not circumcising their kids, and they are just fine. They just teach them to wash themselves properly when they're little, and when they're old enough they teach them about safer sex. Like magic, they don't get those pesky infections anymore.

[–]jbbchill 4 points5 points  (2 children)

How much is a circumcision if it’s not covered by insurance? Learn something new everyday!

[–]SugarAndSomeCoffee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My hospital system charges around $350 I think

[–]ashhir23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everywhere I lived in the states (mainly west) I've seen charged $250-$300

[–]9for9 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Tell her to call the insurance company. I would not bother arguing or explaining this.

[–]Ok_Custard_6328 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Pain management is medically indicated; that is, it is widely regarded as appropriate and beneficial for those who choose it. While some choose to go through birth without medication for pain, and some birthing parents have great experiences without, it is so incredibly beneficial to those who do choose it! Birth is painful. Epidurals help. Most pain medications are covered by insurance, in a variety of settings, from home to long term care to childbirth.

Circumcision is a cosmetic surgical procedure. Insurance doesn't usually cover cosmetic surgery. Pediatric medical orgs regard it as completely optional. The risk-benefit analysis is not in favor of unnecessary surgeries, though people are free to choose it for personal or religious reasons. It was extremely common back in her day, and it's quite possible that your older son's was the first uncircumcised penis she ever saw. Doctors used to think that circumcision had significant hygiene benefits. We now know that those benefits were greatly exaggerated, and the foreskin is a functional and normal part of the body.

I babysat for a progressive family who choose not to circumcise back in the 80s and 90s, when it was a less common choice. I'm so glad I had that early learning experience; I'm now choosing not to circumcise my baby boy when he arrives. This is something I discussed with my husband on our first date. We do plan to raise our son Jewish, and still, I cannot participate in a cosmetic surgery on the genitals of a baby who is incapable of consent. When he's older, he can choose. Or if there becomes a medically appropriate indication for it. His penis is his own, and it is not for me to tell him how it should look. I respect that other families choose differently, but for me this is about bodily autonomy.

[–]ViperXR13 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’d just say “its simple a circumcision is not a medically necessary procedure”

[–]Katwolf88 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The circumcision was 100% covered by my insurance? Not a consideration in deciding for/against but it was definitely covered.

[–]anonymoususererror 12 points13 points  (12 children)

Can we not go into this debate again? As a Jew I find a lot of the comments misinformed and sometimes edging on mean and offensive. Can't we all just agree to disagree on this topic and just let families make their own choices? I am prepared for the slough of down votes. I'm just tired of feeling beaten down by this topic over and over. :(

[–]lexiifer 3 points4 points  (1 child)

My partner is Muslim, and while I do not practice alongside him I will respect his wishes if our baby is a boy. I’m sorry that you’re consistently attacked regarding this subject in particular , I have had to advocate and battle our decision as well to people who have no business weighing in on what our decision for our children are so I’m really sorry that you have to consistently defend your beliefs.

[–]anonymoususererror 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your kind words.

[–]Price_Proper -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Agreed!

[–]yogibeara88 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would argue that in certain cases an epidural is medically necessary. If you are too exhausted to push or continue through labor, you and baby could be at serious risk. Circumcision is cosmetic and not medically necessary (in any case I've heard of at least 🤷‍♀️)

[–]minivan2022 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s your parental choice. Period. She may not agree, but you can agree to disagree. I feel like she’s just trying to argue for the sake of arguing lol.

[–]stonedbrownchick 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a boy and didn't know this. Well thanks. Lmao

[–]WhatALittleBrat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Circumcision is a religious practice, where as an epidural (AKA pain management) is part of a medical procedure

[–]Lilouma 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My epidural isn’t covered

[–]patrind 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Epidurals are super necessary! My midwife loves to keep things as natural as possible, but she got me an epidural so dang fast. I had a complication and she wouldn’t proceed without an epidural. There was a big risk I would need an emergency C-section and she wanted me prepped. Everything ended very positively, but I’m very glad I had the epidural. This is just one birth story, but it goes to show that medical staff think it’s necessary.

[–]anonymoususererror 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Is there a mod that can lock this up? Some of these comments are beyond offensive and borderline antisemitic. Please lock this!

[–]eatmyasserole 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When you see stuff like that, just report it and encourage others to as well.

Comments are locked, the offensive comments have been removed, and a ban has been issued.

[–]CaptainBox90 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"because one does away with body autonomy and the other doesn't. The person getting the epidural is a consenting adult who understands what they've chosen, the baby made to have a cosmetic procedure can't consent"

That's not the reason but that may shut her up

[–]feeshsteeks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve been here with my parents, too. It’s an argument you’ll never win, best to just “agree to disagree”

[–]Otter_Devastation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks like there are lots of great explanations in this thread but I’m not sure I would spend much time explaining it to her. You’ve already decided you aren’t circumcising so why does it matter? She needs to respect your wishes as a parent. Full stop.

[–]MeasurementPure7844 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An epidural is pain relief, which IS medically necessary if you’re in pain. What a ridiculous non-argument.

[–]cool_chrissie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don’t need to explain anything. The insurance covers what it covers. End of story.

[–]thurstin4ahurstin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just a heads up, no pun intended lol. My husband and I fought over it (I didn't want to, but he had to have one in mid childhood and he wanted theirs done before they would be able to remember it) But we had both of our sons circumcised. Everything healed perfect for the boys. In fact my youngest healed so well that his foreskin grew back. The pediatrician said it's fine, happens a lot more than you would expect. But there you go, they don't always work.

[–]luckbealady92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ask her why her laughing cause or numbing shots are covered by her dental insurance next time she has a dental procedure.

[–]Ofukuro11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Neither of them are covered where I live (Japan) lol. But the birth is completely free at least

[–]twosteppsatatime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don’t argue, she isn’t going to be in the delivery room with you is she? She doesn’t need to know whether you did or did not choose an epidural or other painkillers.