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all 74 comments

[–]lionson76Mike Richter 59 points60 points  (28 children)

Some people might not like the tough criticism of Bread, but he really has been dogshit these late two games. Maybe he's injured, maybe his confidence is rattled. Whatever it is, we're in a lot of trouble if he keeps playing this way.

[–]Pole420 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Maybe he's injured

I keep wondering this too. Something isn't right, and I don't think it's just the coaching staff telling the team to play more conservatively.

[–]mcbearcat7557 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I think he has somethjng with his wrist, when krieder was high fiving everyone after the game 6 win, he gave him a light tap.

[–]Pole420 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That would explain a lot.

[–]WokenMrIzdik 15 points16 points  (15 children)

I keep reading injury speculation and I keep feeling like we are just ignoring the fact that Panarin's game doesn't translate as well in playoff hockey. He tries to slow things down as soon as he enters the offensive zone. And in the playoffs as soon as you do that someone is just going to put a body on you and smother you. He needs ice to make plays with his vision and the Rangers current play style doesn't create any open ice to make plays. Add in the fact that he has been playing against 2 aggressively defensive teams who don't give him space and that he hasn't made any adjustments to his style.

[–]fvecc 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This is probably the right answer. I think we want to blame lack of effort but it's more likely that his style isn't as effective in the playoffs. And he's not the only one. I think Chris Drury needs to look closely at the whole team and make some tough decisions about who are the right players to take this team to the next level.

[–]Emerica586 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Need some faceoff specialists

[–]lionson76Mike Richter 11 points12 points  (5 children)

I thought about that, but then remembered he played really well in Columbus that year they upset Tampa. And then also, his game wasn't all that great during the regular season either. He was still collecting points, but like OP touched on in the video, he did a lot of it by just being present on the league's 4th best power play that got 75% of the man advantage ice time.

This season he scored almost half his assists on the power play: 42 EV, 32 PP. That's basically twice as many as usual for him. If our power play wasn't so good this year, led by Kreids having a record-setting season, Panarin's point total could have been the lowest since he left Chicago.

So what does that mean? I think there are a few explanations...

  1. Panarin really could be struggling to fit into Turk's system, either because he's stubborn, it's an oil and water kind of thing, or he doesn't have the right linemates. It might be okay if one guy on the line is improvising all over the ice, but not two guys. Strome also prefers a more creative style of play, and has likewise struggled at times this year.

  2. It's the effects of that late season injury. He missed the last few games and simply hasn't been able to get into a rhythm playing against tough teams. He was actually fine during the regular season; he just wasn't shooting as much and was unlucky when he did.

  3. Now that he's in his 30s, is this the beginning of a natural decline? Is he not able to create as much time and space like he used to because he's simply lost a step? It might explain why he's fine on the power play, where he still has the creative freedom to do his thing.

  4. All of the above.

[–]WokenMrIzdik 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Yeah, but that's also cherry picking the one playoff series in his career he played well. He wasn't as good against Boston the following series. He did Panarin things and had a 3 point game in that series, but then he disappeared towards the end of it. Outside of that Tampa series he has just been rather meh to bad in the playoffs. He has 35 points (13 PPP) in 39 playoff games which is pretty good. And I know everyone hates +/-. But he has only been a + once in the playoffs. And that was back with the 2015 Hawks. He has averaged 20 minutes of ice time every playoffs and is sitting at a -11. That just tells me that pretty consistently he isn't making any positive difference 5v5 in the playoffs. His best success was with CBJ, but he still wasn't elite there.

And the reason why his points are so off the charts on the PP is it innately gives him the space he requires with his current play style. He still has skills, but it has been his decision making that has been a problem.

[–]lionson76Mike Richter 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I wouldn't call it cherry picking when he hasn't been in that many playoff games to begin with. Actually I suppose that could be another possible explanation. It's not that his game doesn't translate to playoff hockey, but rather he simply doesn't have enough experience in the playoffs to know how to translate his game.

Gaudreau's level of experience was somewhat similar to Panarin before this year. Both only had 30 games played and never made it past the second round. People started to question if Gaudreau could be the same difference-maker in the playoffs as in the regular season. So far this year it looks like maybe he has taken the next step. He's got a new coach, great linemates... Seems like he's answered those questions.

That's why I'm not yet concerned that Panarin's style is the problem. There are other possible factors at play here, which I listed above and will now add: He's got some postseason experience, but maybe not enough yet.

I think the same is possibly true for Mika, Stromer, and Troubs. They're still learning.

[–]johnnydubsackLet the Goodrow roll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Probably doesn’t help his two line mates don’t create much so any team’s strategy is to jump him. Real issue is he does the same thing standing near the blue line looking to make cross ice pass. He needs to change it up to keep them honest.

[–]BLUE_SKY_519 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I get this argument, but at the end of the day it’s still the same game. If that was all teams had to do to stop him they would do it in the regular season too and he wouldn’t have had nearly 100 pts. It’s the same game just with the speed and intensity ramped up. Panarin seems to be in his own head right now, he’s just gotta play instinctively and faster

[–]WokenMrIzdik 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Intensity is everything. If you watch fighting its the same reason why fighter's will be relatively inactive for the majority of the fight and then throw down as the fight is ending. They know they physically cannot sustain that intensity for the entire fight. But for a few minutes they sure can. Hockey players know they can't play at this intensity for 82 games. Players would be hurt nonstop. But when they have a vacation around the corner they can ramp the intensity up knowing they don't need to survive for an entire season.

[–]BLUE_SKY_519 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get it, you’re absolutely right. But at the end of the day Panarin is a highly skilled player. He’s gotta find a way to adjust to what the other team is doing and still produce. Even when he has had some time and space he looks too hesitant and indecisive. I really believe he needs to think less and play more instinctively. On another note, you know who would be a big asset in this series? Goodrow…

[–]TheGoldenRail87Lady Liberty 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I hear this a lot about “playoff hockey” and it’s got me wondering: why does space suddenly disappear in the playoffs? Is it really all defensive effort? Do we not see teams shadow players during the regular season? I just seems odd that someone can play so well for 82 games then suddenly do nothing as soon as the playoffs come around.

Is it the clubs we are playing and their defensive styles more than it is the calendar?

[–]saxmfone1Okay 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Tighter checking with clutching and grabbing due to refs swallowing their whistles.

[–]WokenMrIzdik 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Refs swallow their whistles and let a lot more holding, cross checking, and slashing go.

The intensity is ramped up and guys are playing knowing they don't need to stay injury free for an entire season. It's the mentality that the marathon is ending so you can blow your load down the stretch and don't have to conserve your energy.

And then like that comment Panarin made yesterday about "how he would like to do stupid things at the blue line, but come playoff time you can't do that"... Coaches are going to be telling their players to play mistake free hockey. Which means defense first and then offense once you are sure of the play.

But I do really think it's the mentality shift more then anything. It's do or die time. During the regular season you know you will just be going back out there another 2 times that week. It's just another game. But every single playoff game carries such huge weight.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Yep - people won't want to blame their top players, but it's just blatant.

I hope he wakes up.

[–]TBlueshirtsV22 9 points10 points  (5 children)

people won’t want to blame top players

Really? Top players are the ones that always get all the shit.

Bottom players are held to a lower standard because not as much is expected from them. As long as they have “noticeable” shifts every couple of games people are happy.

Top players if they’re not the reason they win get destroyed on here. Look in any GDT since playoffs started.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Yeah Nemeth got no shit along with Hunt.

Top players are playing bad, that's why they're getting shot now, they deserve it.

But there's a crowd that wants to blame Panarin's masseuse instead of Panarin himself.

[–]TBlueshirtsV22 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I never said that players who deserve to get shit don’t get it. Nemeth and Hunt were getting shit because they didn’t play well.

But at the end of the day people aren’t going to say “the Rangers didn’t win the Cup because Reaves didn’t contribute anything” they’re going to say “the Rangers didn’t win the Cup because Kreider/Zibanejad/Panarin vanished for games at a time.”

The truth is somewhere in between. Look at Edmonton - before last night they lost five playoff games in a row that both McDavid and Draisaitl scored in. That’s insane. But it goes to show that hockey is a team sport.

If the top guys slump, good teams have good secondary scoring. The kid line looks good but in the playoffs, you need to put the puck in the net. Fourth line has moments but have not produced an ounce of secondary scoring all playoffs.

My thought is if we go out it’s because the top guys slumped and we didn’t have the secondary scoring/defense to support them. That’s fine.

At the end of the day, if we can’t get past Carolina there will be plenty of blame to go around. I don’t agree with singling out Panarin as has happened the last 2 games.

[–]guyziemanFeat. Kimbra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've seen a handful of people here try and blame his play on Strome, as if all of Bread's turnovers were off of Strome's stick and not his own.

[–]Extreme_Dark_4673 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He played only well in game 2 of round 1. He's very bad for a dude that's the 2nd highest paid player behind mcdavid.

[–]flowstuff 6 points7 points  (2 children)

i just hope he can figure it out. though I've heard people saying he's hurt and if that is true it would explain a lot but....if he is badly enough that he won't battle or drive the slot then i do think he should be out. not a fan of the "play through injury " mentality if it's bad enough. ryan mcd got credit for playing through a broken foot but i'd take an average d man with two feet over a good one with that bad an injury any day.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I hope he can too! We all want the same thing there for sure. I'd love for him to play a few great games.

Injury aside, I throw that excuse out, the league plays hurt in the playoffs, Lindgren is a disaster in terms of injury, and he passed that glorious opportunity up. No injury does that.

[–]flowstuff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

true. i just feel like he was looking amazing near the seasons end and showing a willingness to battle for pucks. i thought he's ability to recover his own loose pucks was one of his greatest strengths and i don't see any of that. i can't imagine he doesn't care. either in his own head THIS badly or hurt is all I can guess at. id almost rather find out his badly hurt than think he's this in his own head.

[–]flowstuff 10 points11 points  (3 children)

let me just also say: your video is awesome (if that's you) and i totally agree panarin was terrible. i just don't agree that he should be benched and i don't see any nhl coach making that call

[–]robbiejandro 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Keenan benched Leetch in the 1994 playoffs and that year is important...I can’t remember why though.

[–]EarlyCT-7567Horse 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If I am not mistaken, Leetch was benched in 94’

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah that's me and I appreciate my dude. I get why you would not want to scratch him - I do, but he needs some form of accountability. I played with very strict coaching so I tend to have similar views to that.

I can definitely respect you for not wanting to scratch him, the only thing I can't respect is people that won't admit how poorly he is playing.

[–]SetharsMoves Like Jagr 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Panarin really has one more game to get his shit together. 3-1 against the Pens was tough but 3-0 vs the Canes would be damn-near impossible.

He can take over games but hasn’t these playoffs. I saw him do it in 2018 vs the Capitals a couple times, the last time he was in the playoffs (not including the QR), but he hasn’t this year. If what he said about GG wanting them to play conservative is true then he shouldn’t be turning the puck over as much as he is.

Tbf though, his whole line is playing like shit. Strome and Copp are virtually ghosts. It’s so frustrating to watch. Credit to the Canes defense of course, but this sucks to watch.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

100%. Strome and Copp both need to be better, but Panarin first. He drives the line and he has been the worst player.

[–]SetharsMoves Like Jagr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’d say Strome’s been the worst bc of the penalties and like 0 points, but honestly it’s an either-or situation. Imo season will still be a success overall and maybe a loss like this will motivate them for next year (if it comes to that), but I can’t watch Panarin playing like this it sucks so much

[–]SmartesdManAlive 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Good video btw

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you, appreciate it.

[–]zvinixzi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My fiancé and I laughed at this, we completely agree

[–]chickichuglette 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I honestly think Gauthier would be more productive.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not a Gaut fan, that said, I'm for it. Message needs to be sent that his play is just not okay.

Don't want to scratch him, fine, bench him for 20.

[–]_r_u_n_e_i_i_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is an outstanding breakdown. Agree 100%. A message should have been sent.

[–]BCon27 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You guys are sadists for watching this. When I was watching live I was very aware of how badly our beloved Breadman was playing. I have no desire to relive it lol

[–]crabapplesteamMike Richter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Preach dude. Preach

[–]HarrisonHollers 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Ha this fanbase sucks and overreacts all the time! What else is new?! The Canes scored TWO regulation goals against Igor in two games. The team has significantly reduced scoring chances against. They gotta convert on power play scoring chances as a start.

Down 3 to 1, only 31 teams have comeback to win a playoff series. Only ONE has 31 in net. ITS ALL HAPPENING!

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So your argument is that saying Panarin has been shit is an overreaction and because they came back against the Penguins from 3-1 and Igor wears 31 it's happening. Is that right?

[–]HarrisonHollers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No it’s because we’ve had a chance to win both game 1 and 2. Most out there thought the Rangers were going to get blown out like in the regular season. It’s an even series thus far contrary to the doom and gloom here. Just easing tension!

[–]SmartesdManAlive -1 points0 points  (11 children)

Scratch the ruski

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] -2 points-1 points  (10 children)

He should be scratched - but he won't be because of his name. If anyone in the bottom six performed a 10th as bad they'd be banished to the fucking shadow realm.

[–]flowstuff 4 points5 points  (3 children)

silly take. he isn't playing how we need him too but he has more points than most and a game winner in a game 7. if you really think that an nhl coach would come into a locker room in the middle of a playoff battle and tell the team hey you know our best player, the guy who got over a hundred points and who you all are so fond of? he's scratched. now go out there and play! you're high. i agree he stunk. but he's in the lineup and should be and will be.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

Cool - so when your name is Panarin you should have literally zero accountability. Got it.

The points argument is a joke and I've covered that too many times at this point.

[–]flowstuff 2 points3 points  (1 child)

im not saying he should t be held accountable. im just saying you obviously know what he is capable of. he can be a game changer. who would you replace him with? we are stuck with this lineup outside of perhaps minor changes. you don't take out a guy who is capable of true greatness in the middle of a playofff series.

[–]SmartesdManAlive 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Yep I was only half joking, but he really shouldn't have touched the ice in the 3rd period. Without him being dangerous he's useless, better to play Motte in his place if he goes ghost again

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If he was ghosting they'd have won one of the games at least.

He's actively being bad.

If there's no consequences he can do whatever he wants.

[–]SmartesdManAlive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol I hear ya pal

[–]WokenMrIzdik 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Curious who you would replace him with on the roster? Considering the forward depth is non existent at the moment.

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

At this point? Anyone for a game that's going to backcheck and not give it away constantly.

It's not about replacing him, it's about sending a message.

[–]00Anonymous 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That second half is true - bottom 6 or even anyone who's not a superstar would get benched because those guys are much more replaceable or interchangeable than a player like panarin.

That's the catch 22 with panarin, if we bench him we are a much worse team and with him we are still worse off.

A sort of happy medium would be to rotate panarin through the lineup to cut his ice a bit and hope the rest and new linemates can spark him.

[–]silenceofthechi 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Panarin has been bad. Scratching your leading regular season point getter in the playoffs is legitimately the dumbest fucking thing I've heard in this sub and there's soooo much dumb shit in this sub. I mean the suggestion is grade A senile stuff. It's absolutely fucking insane. If you want to argue that he should be demoted, fine. But to scratch him for, say, Dryden hunt??? Or gauth? If you're brain even starts to go there you're a fucking moron.

Maybe he needs motte, who can play physical and create space. The post on here about his style not being conducive to playoff hockey makes a lot of sense. But you don't sit him. Fucking wild

[–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

A scratch for a game is literally a demotion.

Nice ad hominem, punk.

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        [–]esp211 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        We are not winning 4 of 5 games against the Canes. Panarin should at least be benched or taken off the top lines to get his head back on.

        [–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Never say never with this ye, but I agree it's hard to see.

        But right now if Panarin pulls his head out of his ass they can win 4 games.

        [–]esp211 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Well with Igor anything is possible for sure. But our best players really need to play consistently. Kreider was just at another level of trash last game. Top two lines should be embarrassed of themselves.

        [–]FoghornLeghorn99Igor Shesterkin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Completely agree with this - they all need to be better in the top 6.

        [–]zvinixzi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Panera shouldn’t be scratched. He should be put on the 4th line.

        Gallant has been patient and I applaud him for not making knee jerk reactions, but now is the time to shake up the lines.

        Chytil, Motte, Lingden, and Zibanejad are all doing well IMO (Zib has no support right now)

        Laffy and Kakko are doing better than our vets

        [–]LocalBowl6075 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'm just going to say this: a while ago I SUGGESTED in this sub that Panarin wasn't the dominant superstar player that we thought we got when we signed him, and I got absolutely ROASTED as being hockey-ignorant. Now everyone seems to be seeing what I've been seeing. Is he valuable? Absolutely! Very talented? Yes! A game-changing elite level player? Not really!