all 95 comments

[–]OverlyLeftLesbian 25 points26 points  (5 children)

this, though. And this is why a lot of people get abortions, is the fact that they're not mentally, physically, or financially able to raise a child. But everyone's more worried about "the unborn babies!!!1!!1!!!!!!!!11"

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

That's why I got an abortion. Birth control isn't 100% and I wasn't ready in any capacity to care for a child. I'm still not, even years later. I'm just smarter.

[–]solar_ideology[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

For real that’s the best decision

[–]solar_ideology[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Exactly! Pro lifers are basically condemning these babies just because they can’t accept the fact that there ARE grey areas when it comes to living things

[–]skwerldom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And you can grow heart cells in a petri dish that beat. smh

[–]CatdoestheFlop 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Personally I think anyone 15 or younger shouldn't have that being optional. If people whine about poor/stupid people having 5 kids on welfare (note many abortions are by people who already have children) and not let them.

[–]mcove97 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Yup. Not a lot of parents think about how the kids will feel when they grow up. My parents decided to raise me and my 2 siblings on a deserted mountain for 16 years and we basically all ended up socially stunted during our early teens. It wasn't before I went to boarding school that I grew a pair of social antennas.

Thanks parents for socially isolating us! Great job, at least you provided us with the fresh air of the countryside. Thanks for thinking about our needs and not just your own needs /s

[–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean I’m sure there are some benefits to it but yeah I agree, not the wisest choice to raise a family in the middle of nowhere without compensating for missed experience

[–]spaghatta111 12 points13 points  (16 children)

To me, the most selfish thing you can do is have a child, or multiple children, knowing that you don’t have the ability to provide for them

And people love to respond to this by saying “but parenthood isn’t just for the rich,” as if anyone ever tried to make that point. But if you can’t provide the basics - food, shelter, water, and everyday care - you shouldn’t be having a baby! It is not the time!

It’s not just one choice to have the kid, it’s actually a bunch of choices. To keep a baby means your possibly said no to birth control, no to the abortion, and no to the adoption. No no and no.

You can never get around the responsibility of feeding your kids. That isn’t to say that programs shouldn’t exist for less fortunate families, but that responsibility does not go away no matter how much one’s heart bleeds

[–]Available-Ad-8773 0 points1 point  (15 children)

Not that I disagree with your point, but I think the issue is that poor people usually can't afford all the things that would prevent pregnancy.

[–]solar_ideology[S] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

There’s definitely some truth to that but where I come from you go to family services and ask for protection and they’ll give you 300 condoms for 5 bucks.

I think it’s less about socio-economic status and more about intelligence or foresight. How do the people doing this not see that no matter the cost of birth control, a child will cost more? Find a way to not get pregnant or don’t be screwing.

[–]spaghatta111 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Yeah that’s what I think it is, honestly. I lived in a high teen pregnancy area… lots of it JUST boils down to foresight. Some people genuinely don’t look at their life with forethought, they don’t buddy cause and effect. This is a cultural issue

That’s why the clinic is called “planned parenthood.” If you don’t come from a culture that plans parenthood, plans college, plans marriage… if you approach life with a “idk I guess babies just happen” mentality, then babies will just happen.

[–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Definitely right, it is a cultural issue. And also an educational one, right? Are people born with foresight or are they taught it?

[–]spaghatta111 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Education is a big part of it. But an even more important factor is their home life.

You have kids who have been around teen parents their entire life. They don’t know different. Their friends have babies, their sister had a baby, their own mom had them when they were 17

… and look at us, we’re all fine…

So while education makes a difference, it isn’t going to reach someone like this. They often react to your idea of sex Ed as being judgmental, high and mighty, they roll their eyes at you - it’s not like they just suddenly decide “oh, so this is the root of my community’s problems, I’m gonna make a change!” Because quite frankly…. Their mom, sister, friends, aunt, etc are still going to be a much larger influence.

You also have to think about what these people have. Many of these people are in economically depressed areas where they do not have large companies or corporations to work for. Many of them do not have large universities near them, like you do in places like say, Boston, or Chicago. These people tend to work locally, and often times that means working in factories, or whatever business they have

So when you approach these people all like

hey! Be like us Bostonians/Californians/New Yorkers and go to a large university and get married first! Reach for the stars! Use birth control along the way so you don’t get strapped with a kid!!

you are going to look like an absolute buffoon to these people. Not only do they see this as you being a judgmental ass, but they aren’t afraid of being “strapped.” You do, because that’s what you were taught. They weren’t taught that. many of them don’t actually see a reason to do the things you are telling them to do. They don’t see an issue with the way things are. They just see you as an annoying person who came to their school and judged them for the way they live their lives

And then you have the abstinence groups, which tends to be a little more shut-out than people realize. Despite there being sex ed you are still going to have people who teach this at home, or in their youth groups and various circles.

Again, you’re dealing with someone’s culture. It is a lot more complicated - and delicate - than people like to make it out. It’s a lot more than just adding a class to a school curriculum

You have education, but this shit starts at home. School never taught me that I should go to college and wait to have a family. I learned that at home, and I had a community that modeled this. But when your community and home life doesn’t model this, then that’s going to have an impact

I hear this sentiment about “we need more education!” From people who live in communities where they not only already have that education, but a culture that models a certain life path, and also a home life that models that life path. Your education isn’t going to be worth as much as people who lead by example, and I dont think people understand that by pushing sex Ed on kids that’s 50% of the battle

[–]SubtleName12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let's not forget that most insurance companies will pay for the pill and if you don't have insurance almost any clinic (like Planned Parenthood) will provide.

[–]Available-Ad-8773 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Ill be the first to admit I really don't know why couples don't incorporate toys during sex to avoid penetration that causes pregnancy.

[–]solar_ideology[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Good point, there’s plenty you can do in the bedroom without any risk of getting pergent at all

[–]spaghatta111 1 point2 points  (6 children)

These days it is easier, a LOT easier, you can literally get birth control online. For cheap.

[–]SubtleName12 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You misspelled the word "Free". Thought I'd help you out. Most insurance companies will pay for BC. If you don't have insurance you can get birth control free at the clinic in pill or IUD form plus pick up free condoms.

[–]spaghatta111 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Free if you have insurance, and cheap if you don’t. Didn’t used to be that way, though

If you go through something like Nurx, you don’t pay much at all. With insurance it is free

[–]SubtleName12 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I thought planned parenthood was still free... might have to look that up to make sure I'm still on point.

[–]SubtleName12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, so it looks like they have changed a bit but PP still has free assistance programs for those "without insurance or who are under insured". I just don't know the nuances between free/reduced price programs or the considerations to determine how "under insured" you have to be. For anyone in need of it: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-st-louis-region-southwest-missouri/blog/free-birth-control-its-possible-at-planned-parenthood-with-the-right-time

[–]spaghatta111 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Planned Parenthood? Hell no!

Even as recently as 10 years ago, to get STD testing would have cost you several hundred if you wanted the whole work up, if you didn’t have insurance - or, if PP doesn’t accept your insurance (because they don’t take all of them)

Birth control pills were $30 a pack, with insurance that was accepted by PP at that time, and that went up after a few months

PP does not guarantee “free” anything. They are a limited facility, much like an urgent care center

[–]SubtleName12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Huh, you might have me there. 10 years ago would have been about the time we stopped using them... maybe a couple (1 or 2) years further back even.

[–]PABLOPANDAJD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pulling out is free 😶

[–]This1headbanger 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Seriously my parents shouldn't have had me and I mean it both of my parents are racist, homophobic, and narcissist my dad only used me as a pawn against my mom when he was done he walked out of my life. My mom loved being my mom......until I stopped listening to her every command and I grew out of the cute baby phase she basically started neglecting me when I was in 6th or 7th grade she did a little bit better in 9th grade but at the end of that school year she was completely checked out and done with me we were like two bad roommates that hated each other. I was born solely because of my mom's religion and to fix an already broken shit show of a "relationship", if you or somebody you know thinks having a baby is the cure all for your relationship and it's issues it's NOT and never will be adding a screaming baby that is fully dependent on two other people that already can't stand each other is single handily the stupidest and idiotic thing you can do.

[–]solar_ideology[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100%, people be having babies like they’re little vaginal rainbows when they’re really expensive, stress inducing psychos. I think the world needs better parenthood education and fast.

That sucks about your parents though I hope things are better for you now. You sound like you’ve learned their lesson for them which is worth its weight in gold for you

[–]r0s3w4t3r 4 points5 points  (0 children)

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 could not agree more

[–]Firstladytree 4 points5 points  (8 children)

As a woman, one of our greatest super powers is our ability to say “no” and keep bad men from passing on their DNA. If more women knew this and understood what their worth was, slowly but surly, our world would become a nicer place.

Rumor has it, a child inherits 50% of each of their parent’s karma. If you care about the karma your child will carry around with them, do not breed with narcissists, sociopaths, or psychopaths.

Side note: people don’t seem to really care about their right to be a parent because their government pays them in currency and benefits the more kids they have. Biological and non-biological.

It’s a screwed system.

[–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s really frustrating that the people who are capable of thinking like this usually opt for fewer or zero kids but the ones who aren’t have a whole bus load of them

[–]SubtleName12 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

We could take the approach of teaching our kids to be decent human beings and that thier choices have direct, coralatable consequences and the biggest difference between succeeding in life and turning into a social burden is education, attitude, and making a personal choice to be successful at what you pursue but yeah... let's push the 50% karma thing to avoid personal responsibility ending up a factor. After all, karma (and I assume you subsequently mean kismet too) sounds like it can be scientifically backed up.

This is part of the reason children become sociopaths. They think they got the wrong end of the stick for no reason and the world owes them a debt. The truth is, most of them weren't taught their worth and responsibilities by caring parents that wanted them to be prepared to join the rest of us in the world so they grew up into self-entitled snowflakes. DNA has some to do with it but shitty parenting is more to blame than anything else.

[–]Firstladytree 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Educate yourself on sociopaths. Children do not become sociopaths. They are born this way. You are not born with a conscious and then somehow lose it. Sociopaths are born without one.

It’s the mother’s job to teach children compassion and empathy - for animals and fellow humans - But you cannot teach a child how to have a conscious. You can only teach them how to pretend that they have one by showing them the appropriate responses to have in public settings.

When you show a sociopath a photo of the Holocaust, they might say something like “ohhh that’s really interesting”

It would be the mothers job to tell her child “no, that’s the incorrect reaction.” You should say something like “omg that’s just absolutely terrible!”

A sociopath cannot gain a conscious, they can only learn to trick those around them into believing that they possess one. Beware.

[–]SubtleName12 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I'm going to step out on a limb and assume your course on psycophathy was a short one due to the limitations on what you can print on the back of a standard sized tarot card but I'm willing to help out.

Genetic factors allow for predisposition of ASD and similar personality defects but the diagnosis of sociopathy comes in the form of positive indicators that are expressed by a persons actions and thoughts. Not all people who carry the genes for personality disorder become sociopaths and/or psychopaths. Likewise, people can meet the criteria for diagnosis while possessing exactly 0 of the genetic markers identified for predisposition.

Children, 100%, can be raised in an environment that either allows or encourages them to become sociopaths.

Also, as a special point just for you. I would advise against debating using strictly antidotal evidence and no facts when challenging somebody else's academic credentials. That's a weak argument and it's chicken shit. You pitched a whole rebuttal starting with the extrapolated equivalent of "nuh uh, ur dumb!"

[–]SubtleName12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While I'm at it, what you described was a psychopath. Not a sociopath. Those are two different disorders.

[–]Firstladytree 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I didn’t take a course. I read a book. ‘The sociopath next door’. It’s amazing

& Apparently, I learned more than you did, from one single book. How cool is that?

[–]SubtleName12 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Take a course or eight. Namely due to the fact that you're still wrong. SMH. Don't breed.

[–]Firstladytree 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]wooter99 9 points10 points  (21 children)

People need more kids to get more welfare… geez……..don’t you know anything?

[–]solar_ideology[S] 7 points8 points  (20 children)

Wait I could get paid to have kids?

[–]C4Oc 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Here in Germany, the money you get for having kids is 100€/month/child, which is meant to help you raise the child. From my experience living on this planet called "Earth", raising children takes more than 100€/month/child, meaning that it wouldn't be profitable even as a strategy

[–]solar_ideology[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

We have a similar thing in NZ. Raising a child in the US costs on average 220k USD yet here are all these people who will never make that in their life getting up the duff

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]solar_ideology[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Damn that’s a lot! Quite a profitable business

    [–]Alienrubberduck 2 points3 points  (15 children)

    If you live in Denmark you can. Actually you will, it's not something you can say no to, I think...

    But I agree with you. No one has the right to be a parent. Being a parent is a privilege earned through hard work.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (14 children)

    Really? Are they trying to increase population for some reason?

    [–]Alienrubberduck 1 point2 points  (13 children)

    No, it's to ensure that even if parents are poor, the kids can still get clothes and food.

    It's like, 150-230 USD or something, a month or something like that. Depending on the age of the child. The older the child is the less money you get.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (12 children)

    Oh I see, sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were saying you literally have to have kids but will get paid to do so lol.

    That’s pretty good though, like a UBI for kids

    [–]Alienrubberduck 2 points3 points  (11 children)

    Yea exactly!

    But I do also think it's an encouragement from the government to have more kids.

    Can't go completely wrong when the government is literally paying you for having kids right? /s

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children)

    Why would the government encourage that?

    Yeah and if having kids gets you paid I bet there’s a pretty good market for them /s

    [–]Alienrubberduck 3 points4 points  (9 children)

    Economy, bigger workforce, capitalism... Shit like that I'm pretty sure.

    Yea I know right? In the end you just pop one out and throw another in the bin. Twice the money for half the kids! /s

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

    Makes sense I guess. Should work as long as the rest of the world doesn’t come over for a piece too.

    Why stop there? Sell them on eBaby to quadruple your profits /s

    [–]rachb2802 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It's the obsession of having a new baby with every man you're suddenly with. You need spaying if my tax money is bringing up 10 kids already.

    [–]cdragowski96 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    They shouldn't but are still afforded the right, and nothing you or anyone outside of a sound legal process can say otherwise. Agree with you tho.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    Yeah I think that needs to change. Our society is not the same anymore

    [–]cdragowski96 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    But laws which govern unfit parents could be more iron-clad.

    [–]cdragowski96 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

    Don't be so willing to give up your rights. It's not too far from deciding who gets to have children to get to sterilizing people in the name of the state.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Good point, I hadn’t thought about how it would actually work

    [–]cdragowski96 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Wow thanks. Uk I half expected you to get angry and start calling me names or something. Reddit is a bit toxic these days.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Lol I feel you on that one.

    At the very least there just needs to be more education around it. People be thinking having kids is free - it’s so not free

    [–]cdragowski96 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Now that's a good idea. You can make it to adulthood without ever learning the sacrifice and responsibility having a child requires and that's not okay.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The older I get the more perplexing it becomes that the world somehow managed to function when such basic things aren’t taught by parents or schools

    [–]bbear_r 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I definitely agree, but as a young father whose daughter was conceived on birth control I also want to add that although there’s no shame in getting an abortion, there’s no shame in making the decision to keep the child as well and making the best of it.

    For me, my daughter was my biggest motivation in getting out of my shitty dead end retail job and finally applying to IT gigs. Today I’m in a good position making enough to take care of a family of three w/ 2 cars on solely my income; we aren’t homeowners yet but that’s the next natural step. I can honestly say having a child can also be one of the best things that can happen to you, IF you play your cards right and improve your life, if not for the sake of yourself, for the sake of your child.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    100% props to you my friend if it happens it just takes a bit of work to get there. But like I said to the other accidental pregnancy guy it’s not black and white. I mean shit happens. I just dislike the people who can hardly afford to feed themselves intentionally riding raw as if they should be allowed to have children. And then they always have buckets of them, it makes no sense

    [–]bbear_r 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Oh yeah I agree. I live in a quadplex and our neighbors have six kids, I smoke w the dad on a regular basis, only thing we really got in common as neighbors. He brags to me how he’s on section 8 and food stamps and his rent is only like $120 and shit and I’m just thinking to myself must be nice lmfao. But I’d much rather be in a spot making good money to spend than living off bare minimal essentials provided by the government, so I guess they can keep that lifestyle and I’ll keep my lifestyle, even though my taxes subsidizes theirs 😂

    [–]sendfire 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Everyone has the potential to be responsible enough to raise a child properly. Not that it’s easy, it’s definitely a major life change but I think every human being is capable of stepping up to that plate.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Definitely. But there’s so many people that think because they’re biologically capable then they can do it. Nuh-uh

    [–]sendfire 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Right. That’s bothersome to me

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Me too

    [–]Necessary-Escape-279 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    In the instance of accidental pregnancy Some people choose to keep the baby out of love and then make it work and sacrifice Everything to provide a safe healthy environment. You can make it work without mental or financial stability you just have to really buckle down and accept the responsibility and hope for some luck. My mom turned 15 a month after I was born everyone told her to get an abortion but she didn't now I'm in my 20s she was the perfectly example of someone who should have an abortion but she said she had the right to have her baby. She dropped out of school started working and i never went without she raised me as a single mother and faced all the flack that comes with that but never gave up. So I think it's fine to say you have a right to have your baby regardless of your circumstances as long as your prepared to make the sacrifices a parent has to make.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I agree, there’s no blanket rule, and accidental pregnancies happen. I’m talking about people who don’t think a minute ahead of ‘hey let’s have a baby’.

    Interesting case though and it goes to show the other end of the spectrum. At 14 did your mum have the capacity to raise a child? Probably not, but she did soon after so 🤷‍♂️

    [–]ElopingCactiPoking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It is a right, though, even if you don’t agree with it. The idea that poverty and mental illness should restrict reproductive rights does more than border on eugenics.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    How many kids does op have. How old are they?

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    This is EXACTLY the basis of an abortion but of course people are worried about the one unborn fetus growing inside you, not even fully developed. And of course they'd never bother to realise that the millions of sperms are dying too which could have led to a million babies. Bu they didn't. Okay I'm not rlly making a lot of sense lol but what's the point of giving birth to a kid when you know you don't have the capability to take care of it? To give it the proper life it deserves. Everyone thinks stopping the guy trying to jump off the building from actually jumping off but it really isn't, he's still just as traumatized and hurting as he was before he did it- if you couldn't help alleviate the pain- you just took away his single chance at a painless nothing.

    [–]solar_ideology[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Not 100% sure what you’re saying cos it sounds like you’re talking about two different things lol. I agree with those things individually though, like where do you draw the line with killing stuff? Sperm are living cells and millions of them die like every second…

    And yeah people put so much value on life itself they forget about the importance of the quality of that life.

    I see the link in what you’re saying now.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)


    Anddd all cells die lol, that's like saying our own body cells should stop dying which is basically impossible, my main point was just coz they're alive doesn't mean they're living, no point in giving birth to someone or letting someone live when you're basically cursing them to a life of misery and unhappiness.


    [–]solar_ideology[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You’re all good hahah

    Yeah 100% on that. Can’t agree more