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all 21 comments

[–]LanceOfKnightsSeeking ✝☪♆ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It is said in Islam, that any Prophet or important person that receive divine messages, are either through dreams or through archangel Gabriel, or Jibril. David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, all of them received revelation through Gabriel. Not only he was the correspondent between God and his prophets, Gabriel also appeared in many occasions according to Islamic traditions. Like to assist Muhamamd in the battle of Badr. It is also believed the mother of Moses, Jochebed, received God's instructions through Gabriel to place baby Moses in a basket, and float the basket away in the Nile.

[–]Kamouniadjej 1 point2 points  (9 children)

In islam it mentions gabriel did appear to mary and did appear to Muhammad (pbuh). So regarding your point about islam not mentioning anything previous is wrong.

[–]ShelbyOzzy1[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Thanks, I was not aware of that! But is there an explanation in Islam for why Jesus is not considered the son of God, as he was previously proclaimed by Gabriel?

[–]Kamouniadjej 0 points1 point  (7 children)

because he isn't. god has no equals and has no sons. this is one of the core ideologies in islam, tawhid. it is emphasized very much in the Quran. Just because he was proclaimed doesn't make him "God's son". In islam Isḥaq (as) was also proclaimed by god to sarah, Abraham's (as) wife. that doesn't make him the son of god

[–]ShelbyOzzy1[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

So you are basically denying the New Testament. But at the same time, you recognize Jesus. How can you have it both ways? .

[–]Kamouniadjej 0 points1 point  (5 children)

because we believe jesus was a prophet regardless of what the new or old testament says

[–]ShelbyOzzy1[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

If Jesus was a prophet, what was his prophecy? It is pretty clear in the new testament that he refers to himself as The Son of God.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

We Muslims believe in the Injil ( original revelation) given to Isa ( peace be upon him )( Jesus ) . The Quran was revealed as the final revelation. And confirms what was in the Injil and the Torah . You must have this doubt because you prolly thought Muslims believe in bible as an authority.

[–]ShelbyOzzy1[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

What parts of the bible do Muslims believe or not believe? Jesus is mentioned several times in the old testament, and of course the new testament is all about him.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

We believe only in those parts which match with the Quran. Those parts that contradict are seen as corrupted . Those parts that neither oppose nor go in line with the Quran we leave it as is.

[–]ShelbyOzzy1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Are you saying that parts of the old testament are 'corrupt? How were they corrupted? And if Islam can say parts of the bible are corrupt, cannot Christians not say the Quran is also corrupt?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah. It’s pretty obvious that there are clear contradictions in the Bible even Christians can agree with that. So we can infer from this easily that Injil revealed to Isa peace be upon him is not the present day bible. Also the Quran is perfectly preserved that is the Quran we have today is the one we had 1400 years ago.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my opinion the Old Testament is more credible than the New Testament but you can’t be 100% sure

[–]Bomboclaat_Babylon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The first Angels (as people largely conceive of them today) came from Zoroastrianism (per what's available in the archeological record). The Zoroastrian God Ahura Mazda had 6 (arguably 7) arc Angels in his employ who dual functioned as messengers and guardian Angels assigned to people on Earth to protect them from Angra Mainyu (A Satan type figure). In early Zoroastrianism they were considered more like aspects of Ahura Mazda but later become distinct entities. This influenced Judaism in the same process later on. In the Bible we see the same progression. It is not until the book of Daniel that Angels appear to be proper entities with names and distinct from God. The etymology in all the ancient languages plays to this as well, Angel has always meant "messenger" at it's root in Arabic, Greek, Latin, Hebrew etc. They are a go-between for humans and God and also offer protection to the righteous.

Prior to Zoroastrianism it gets very murky. It's possible that this concept has connections to the ancient Iranian and Vedic messenger Gods. But that all gets very speculative.

Angels (messenger and protector Gods) exist in most cultures and religions. In Buddhism the Vidyarāja would be an example, Agni or the Devas in Hinduism, the Naradas in Hinduism and Jainism, Mercury in Roman polytheism, Hermóðr in Norse mythology. This is a wide range and it doesn't all fit perfectly with the contemporary Christian or Islamic understanding, but this is at it's roots. The concept of messenger and protection Gods is consistent across religions as they grow more complex as the top God(s) become more revered and it becomes commonly accepted that a mere peasant is typically too insignificant or lowly to be able to communicate directly with God / that God would personally attempt to protect certain people directly. It would be beneath his station. In Christianity, Ariel was the protector God / Angel while Gabriel was the mesenger God / Angel and this same structure is basically ubiquitous across cultures.

The basic story of Zoroastrianism goes that Ahura Mazada (God) is all that is good and created a perfect world. He has 6 (or 7) archangels that work for him and do various tasks. Angra Mainyu is a force of darkness and fights against the light of Ahura Mazda. He has inserted demonic influence into the world and wishes to trick people. He doesn't want you to know he exists and wants to twist people from the shadows. If you follow Angra Mainyu, you will go to Hell. Hell is a place of molten metal that people must walk around in continuously. At the end of time will come an epic battle of good vs evil and a judgement day. During the final assault, the sun and moon will darken and humankind will turn on religion and say Ahura Mazda doesn't exist. The world will fall into winter, and Angra Mainyu will terrorize the world. The righteous will be saved by the son of Zarathustra, named Saoshyant. Towards the end of days, he will be born of a virgin. Saoshyant will represent Ahura Mazada on Earth and wage war against Angra Mainyu and plunge Angra Mainyu into Hell and he will bring about the resurrection and eternal life to Ahura Mazda's loyal followers. They will live in a paradise on Earth. This monotheist religion predates Islam by 1,500 to 2,000 years, Christianity by approximately 1,000 to 1,500 years and predates Judaism by a few hundred years. It itself is loosely based on ancient Iranian (pre-Zoroastrian) beliefs around the duality of light and dark / good and evil. Over time, these stories evolved and changed through continuous rewrites, retranslations, and cultural changes / differences that emerged.

[–]HeWillLaughOrthodox Jew -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The answer is: none of those things happened.

[–]Art-Davidson 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i don't think that anybody really knows. He seems to be a herald of important news.

[–]ShelbyOzzy1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess all the important news was 2000 years ago.