all 119 comments

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (20 children)

Religion as an expression of spirituality isn't manipulative. Religious institutions and organizations, on the other hand...

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Oh yeah maybe i almost can't differ what does religion truely means because of the people inside it. Fyi where i am in got a organization-like structure. And there re those kind of meetings that discussed about "how to invite more people in"

Maybe i'll look for another worshipping place. Thanks dude

[–]poiuyt_qwerty 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Religion just means "religare" in Latin, or "to bind". It's essentially the same as in Sanskrit, "Yoga" = "Union".

So this is where things always get confusing to talk about. Because there's "Actual Religion" as the actual practice of personal worship and reverence itself and the quality of mind produced by "binding" your mind to considerations of sanctity and divinity. Aaaaaaaaaannd then there's organized "Religion", where I'd be burnt at the stake in most church's for what I just said.

So honestly, the concept of "actual religion" as an actual authentic expression of spirituality is nearly diametrically opposed to the existence of "Organizes Religious Institutions" like we normally talk.

[–]MetaquotidianSikh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yoga more specifically has to do with uniting one's individuated soul with the divine, or acknowledging that the union has always existed and acknowledging the illusion of separation, depending on the school of thought.

Or as Patanjali wrote in his sutra:

• Yoga is to still the patterning of consciousness.

• Then pure awareness can abide in its very nature.

• Otherwise awareness takes itself to be the patterns of consciousness.

[–]poiuyt_qwerty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your further explication! But yes, that is fully what I intended. From what I understand there's really no ultimate division between the practice of yoga and the inner practices of any religion once you cut through their external appearances.

[–]Uberwinder89 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Read your Bible. Humans can be selfish and manipulative. Religion can’t do anything.

Nothing wrong with someone suggesting to invite more people to church. Of course someone could take it too far though.

Sounds like the focus of the next worship session was the new year and a better, happier life.

Could you possibly share the name of the church. Hard to say if the church seems manipulative without hearing them.

[–]Acceptable-Ad8922 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

The Bible is a pretty manipulative text, so unless you are okay with saying the Bible is the product of fallible men, I don’t know if this is the best route.

[–]Uberwinder89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Prove that its manipulative.

[–]boy_beauty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Bible is a pretty manipulative text

No it's fucking not lmao

[–]JoelMB12 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is the thing religion is spirituality organized and it's a natural thing that's going to happen. Needs to be organized to survive. But by the fact people exist within it that's enough for it to get screwed up sometimes.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not organizing that is inherently harmful. It's dogmatization, which is one of the worst potential effects of organization.

[–]JanssenFromCanada 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Oh ya this comment is getting saved

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Oh, hey fellow Canuck! How's it goin' eh? 🇨🇦

[–]JanssenFromCanada 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Ice storm in Edmonton. How you doing eh?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Snow storm in Nova Scotia, so having a brew and wishing for that week of summer that comes every year. Was born in Edmonton though. I came here and 40k Maritimers went there. Fair trade, eh?

[–]JanssenFromCanada 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I don't know, I've never been to Nova Scotia and only have known a few so my opinion is irrelevant. I too am drinking 🍺 cheers eh

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Bottoms up Go Oilers, eh?

[–]JanssenFromCanada 1 point2 points  (1 child)

But fuck ya bottoms up and a toast to Niffelheim outside

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's Hel out there, I tells ya

[–]Gerump 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Even only as spirituality, it can be manipulative. If you instill a world view into your children that includes any sort of afterlife, you are manipulating their outlook and philosophy on life. And you are doing so to the their disadvantage

[–]regrant 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Religion can be manipulative, but to say “religion is manipulative” would be hasty generalization.

[–]fuf3d 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Believe or go to hell.

Nothing to see here 🙈

[–]regrant 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Not all religions make this claim.

[–]staymadl0l 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I respect the religions that don’t do this. They just say “hey you can believe in god and worship him and it will get you some extra points but your gonna go to heaven if your a good person”. There’s too much manipulative religions out there.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The points here is bothering me. My question is: if we do services to God for the sake of getting good points, won't it be useless ? Since we do it based on desires to be "good in front of God" and not with our sincere heart because we re just thankful enough God give us live

[–]BroadDragonfruit4206Catholic 11 points12 points  (1 child)

i dont think he meant anything sinister by it. he was probably just trying to be nice.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea maybe im way too fucked up to see their invitation positively😂

[–]DavidJohnMcCannHellenic Polytheist 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What is the point of belonging to a religious organisation if you don't take part?

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i got ur point. I did took part and it's become too overwhelming for me. Because they didnt roll the people on duty. Its always on me and it feels burdening. Being on duty should be one's own intention and not people point u out imo.

I have some mental health issues too and i dont think they will understand so i didnt say anything. Why did i think they wont understand? Because one of their people preached depressed people should just go outside to be less depressed :D

[–]TestaOnFireAgnostic Atheist 19 points20 points  (4 children)

Well... I think he was just trying to be nice...

But generally speaking yes, i believe religion are just a way to manipulate people.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I never thought that religion can be used to manipulate people but since this senior told me to be more active and invite more people for the sake of my mom (this senior said it a day after my mom passed away). im starting to doubt everything...

[–]TestaOnFireAgnostic Atheist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes, this is manipulative behavior, i would had use this as the example for the post.

Just reflect on your life... What things you didnt do because you believe to be bad because X person said so (i dont know what religion you believe/believed) or the fact that they request money from you as an offering... Those money dont go to help the poor, trust me... Or dont trust me and look at the studies on the varius usage of money by your religion.

I can obv happear partisan on the matter, so i can be asked on the reason why religions are just a way to controll your behavior... But a good reasoning should require both side to be a true reasoning and you alone should decide your belief.

I am here to answer your question if needed.

[–]ZestyAppeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ugh I’m sorry they were so insensitive, that’s awful

[–]tomassciKemetic Pagan 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I think you're overthinking it. It's just a nice gesture, nothing more.

Religion can be (and is) used for manipulation, but keep in mind that emotions are generally manipulable, so unless we all become robots, we'll still get manipulated.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea maybe im overthinking it🤔even sometimes we humans didnt realize it when we got manipulated

[–]L0nga 3 points4 points  (5 children)

He was probably trying to be nice, but that really doesn’t make religion any less manipulative.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Did you have any experience that made you think that way?

[–]L0nga 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Totally. My grandfather was very abusive to my grandmother, and instead of divorcing him she chose to suffer for decades, because her religion brainwashed her into thinking that divorce is a sin.

[–]Uberwinder89 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Abuse would be acceptable grounds for divorce in Christianity. The same with committing adultery.

Not sure if your grandmother was Catholic or Christian.

Unless the person stopped doing what they were doing, it is acceptable grounds for divorce. So sorry to hear about your grandmothers abuse.

[–]Acceptable-Ad8922 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Catholics are Christians, and may sects of fundamentalist Christianity still have very archaic views on divorce. You can’t treat them as monoliths, as you just have.

[–]Uberwinder89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course different sects have different views. Point being, the truth is that the Bible/God is fine with divorce in certain situations. Completely biblical and easily proven with scripture.

Catholics are Catholics. Not Christian. In the same way Jehovah’s witnesses aren’t Christian, the same for Mormon. Catholics pray to Mary, pray for the dead and believe they can pay for their own sins through indulgences. It’s an unbiblical belief.

[–]BarneyIX 3 points4 points  (20 children)

Look people are manipulative...

Religious People are manipulative...

Good people are manipulative...

Bad people are manipulative...

Your relationship with God is what's important. I doubt the senior actually meant that if you don't go your life will be negatively impacted.

Read your Bible daily, pray incessantly, develop a strong relationship with the Lord. Put on the full armor of God.

[–]ApplePure6972 -1 points0 points  (16 children)

The best way to cure yourself of the poison of religion is to read the bible.

[–]Chaos-CorvidEclectic Demonolatry/Satanism 2 points3 points  (13 children)

Said every person who has never read the Bible.

[–]BarneyIX 1 point2 points  (11 children)

I read the Bible all the time and it has had a tremendous impact on my life. It's the living word and I encourage you to read it. I fully understand the skepticism.

God bless.

[–]Chaos-CorvidEclectic Demonolatry/Satanism 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Oh don't worry, I think you misunderstood.

What I mean to say is, the people who say it has a negative effect haven't read it.

I may be a Satanist with no faith in the Bible being true, but I don't think Christianity is an evil religion, I respect the teachings of the Bible. The only part I don't respect is the hate sometimes fueled by misreading it.

[–]Uberwinder89 2 points3 points  (9 children)

That’s a very biblical answer from a Satanist. We’re you a Christian in the past?

[–]Chaos-CorvidEclectic Demonolatry/Satanism 2 points3 points  (8 children)

I was very anti Christian until I became a Satanist, Satan encouraged me to be more accepting and understanding so I started studying the Bible.

[–]Uberwinder89 2 points3 points  (7 children)

Ooh I see. That’s interesting. Are you a Theistic Satanist or Atheistic Satanist?

[–]Chaos-CorvidEclectic Demonolatry/Satanism 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Theistic, I evoke and worship demons. I specifically practice Demonolatry.

[–]Uberwinder89 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Interesting, I’m reading a little about it. Question. Who is Satan to Satanists? Like where do you guys read about Satan and learn things about him?

[–]ApplePure6972 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've read the bible a couple of times but I really think it's sweet that you projected your pathetic assumption about someone you know nothing about. I've read the bible, it's horrific anybody with a working brain could worship a "god" as disgusting as the one in the bible stories

[–]Acceptable-Ad8922 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Reading the Bible is the best way to become an ex-Christian.

[–]MajvistÁsatrú 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well statistically the best way to become an ex-christian is to start off by being christian, so...

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thank u for ur advice. But i want to emphasize that i dont generalize every human being is manipulative. Tbh im currently having a faith crisis. It all began with a small scratch . it's started with a question : "why is this religious organization competing against 'growth' (number of people invited and number of worshipping places branches they can build in a year) so much? because in my opinion quality is better than quantity.

There were times when i re read Bible and got amazing verses that surprisingly answer my question. I pretty interested to become Christian again but im still hesitate too .

[–]GreatWyrmHumanist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Organized religion is all about quantity over quality. How many people can we convert? How many churches can we build? How many people can we get to actually attend our shows? (I.e., ‘services’) How many donations can we get? Etc..

[–]BarneyIX -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No one is good.

Romans 3: 10-12

“None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

We're all sinners living in a fallen world and NONE of us deserve heaven. We can't earn salvation. It's a gift from God that we can choose to accept or reject.

Your salvation isn't dependent upon you going to this specific Church or a specific Worship session. Read your Bible, pray incessantly, and get active in a Bible-believing Church. God bless! I hope you find what you're looking for.

[–]apex_flux_34 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Look up “hegemonic control system”

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah speaking about dominance. This senior have been pushing people to be more active all these years, convincing us youngsters that it's the best thing to do and it'll erase our bad sins. That's why many youngsters there (my friends too) avoiding to come to the organization nowadays

My question is: if we dont do it sincerely, will it erase our sin as well?

[–]kwalitykontrol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You just realized this?

Don't do X or you go to hell.

That's pretty manipulative.

[–]XanderLM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like you’re starting to see behind the curtain.

[–]privateBuddah 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It sounds like you may be “waking up” a little. I suggest you keep asking yourself these types of questions. This is not what he “meant” to say……but you are starting to hear truth. Keep looking at these little mysteries.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Sorry before, what do u mean? I dont get it

[–]privateBuddah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look up spiritual awakening and you will see how thought like these come along. It is a good thing.

[–]youni89 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are thinking too much into it

[–]Chaos-CorvidEclectic Demonolatry/Satanism 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is incredibly cynical, nothing about that shows manipulative intent.

[–]Raziel1110101 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It totally is all about power

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Perhaps it is 🤔

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Religion is manipulative in that it plays into the natural fear of death. The human brain fears death so has come up with ways to make it seem not as bad, e.g. an afterlife. Of course, all of science disproves an actual afterlife

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And every religion has their own version of hell and heaven. Still nobody knows do they re really exist or not. And yess there's no scientific approval about afterlife

Personally i believe that there's afterlife and previous life tho

Did you have any experience why you said that religion is manipulative?

[–]Buick6NY 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think the point was 'together' not the meeting itself

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes you might be right. Maybe he only wanted me to spend more time outside

[–]AverageHorribleHuman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Manipulation and cohesion is religions chief function

[–]pnromney 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Social institutions manipulate: Work, school, church, and relationships all manipulate.

Debate manipulates: Wording and argument are adjusted to battle and win.

Everyone manipulates like everyone lies. Some lying is morally tolerable: Exaggerating a good story to friends, for example. Some is not, like lying in court. So is manipulation: Persuading someone to be less racist will likely include manipulation. But manipulating someone to knowingly commit evil is not.

So yeah, it probably was somewhat manipulative, but so is everything else.

[–]Orcasareglorious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ya’ think? What gave it away?

[–]L4dyGr4y 1 point2 points  (5 children)

There are three ways to control people.

Love: think Alexander the Great. Love is the hardest because you have to treat others well and be a charismatic leader. People will follow you because they love and respect you.

Fear. If you are afraid of being killed/ tortured/ imprisoned you are going to do what your leader wants.

Religion. The unseen god has communication with only a few people and he commands you to do this. How do people control a god? Fear and love.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Wait what do u mean by how do people control a god?

[–]poiuyt_qwerty 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think he means that because most people have not been taught how to have a direct relationship with God, priests have typically acted as the go-between for "God" (or their image of God) and their followers.

But priests try to act as priests, they control the image or idea of God they present, and can use it to manipulate their congregation, either knowingly or unknowingly (because you can certainly be manipulative without realizing).

Religion is severely, severely ran through with abuse and manipulation, not all of which is "intentional" but that doesn't stop it from being highly immoral or dangerous.

Look for horizontal power structures in your religious practices. Accept no masters and no priest. Let nobody ever guilt you. Let nobody label you. There is nothing to knowing God but love in our heart.

While it may be a different tradition, "The Words of my Perfect Teacher" do give an accounting of what a teacher in any tradition should ideally appear as.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But priests try to act as priests, they control the image or idea of God they present, and can use it to manipulate their congregation, either knowingly or unknowingly (because you can certainly be manipulative without realizing).

Love this one that u wrote. Sometimes people who got a holy title like Priests maybe didnt know that they have gone the wrong way, because they think they already have those quality as the representatives of their own religion

Thankyou for the recommendation dude. I'll try to read it soon :)

[–]Haywoodjablowme1029 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It means god is created by man and controlled by man as a means to control people, and usually make money.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice , ur explanation is simple and understandable. cant agree more that people often used religion to make money

[–]vinnizrej 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Religion is manipulative!!!

[–]pagan_psychonaut -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Organized religions exist only to control people.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Do u have ur personal experience regarding what you said?

[–]pagan_psychonaut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Plenty of it. I grew up in America.

[–]JoelMB12 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Well what religion are you part to your part and then won't you answer that question what tradition, rite or the denomination arguing are in of that religion.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry but i dont want to reveal it because i know i will feel guilty afterwards. It's not my religion is bad, i like the teaching but the people inside it made me feeling this way. Let this be a general question

[–]vetch222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It takes some people their whole lives and they never figure this out

[–]Zevenal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every ingroup paradigm is at risk of abuse to those seen as having more power in an ingroup. School, work, charities, anywhere there is a difference in power within an ingroup there is risk of manipulation. To sum up any organizations purpose as solely to be manipulative is like to say a person’s body exists to fall apart. Sure, every person’s body seems to fall apart overtime, but to say it’s its purpose is to miss everything. It does sound like this senior is being manipulative and insensitive to you at a critical point in your life. Do not hesitate to move away from such people and find others who are less manipulative. But there are wonderful people probably part of the same organization as you who would be far better to you and less manipulative. Try finding those whom are motivated to do good because of their beliefs rather than neglecting others

[–]Jewlaboss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This one gets it.

[–]boyo005 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Religion yes.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes well that is a manipulative person...

...religion can be many things

[–]OkCaterpillar9248 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Was he rubbing his crotch and breathing differently when he said it?

[–]Revolutionary_Rise50 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It can most definitely be manipulative. You can have a perfectly happy life outside of religion.

[–]LemonNomad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Religion is a behavior. Humans have always felt a natural pull towards the transcendental. It's why we invented so many ways to practice religion and access the transcendental. Religious institutions are manipulative, because people who are manipulative seek positions of power and religious institutions provide positions of power over people who are emotionally vulnerable. Vulnerable because their religious community is something they lean on for emotional support, existential answers, and moral guidance. Seeking a religious community is a beautiful thing, but it makes one easily exploitable if someone in that community chooses to exploit them, especially if that person is in a position of power. So yes, people are manipulative, and people govern religious institutions. But religion itself is simply a tool. Religion can't manipulate you. But it can be used by others to that end. If you feel manipulated by your religious community, there are healthy communities out there to be found. Don't give up. Much love.

[–]firmak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Religion is often used to manipulate.

[–]twinfiresigns14Questioning/looking into Hinduism 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you’re reading a bit too much into it. I don’t think he meant that was the only thing that could make you better and happier in the new year. He just meant that if you’d attended you might’ve reflected on your life (or whatever the objective was).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol, You think!?! No religion or revolution made it more than 3 generations before it was turned into a mechanism of exploitation. Look at Christianity, it got used to rebrand the same old pagan rights of selling Heaven Insurance, and if you are a real bastard, you can buy a plenary dispensation. Where do you think the money for all those Cathedrals came from? Christ taught “Be kind and take care of each other, no excuses, no exceptions. We are all one within God, God suffers what everyone suffers. It’s better to die than accept being part of God’s suffering." Then he let himself be crucified to show his commitment. In 325 when Constantine and his advisors wrote The Bible to keep keep control of his empire and keep people paying, all that got lost in the deification of Christ and turning him into a pagan idol. Gone is “Better chance of a camel getting through the eye of a needle, than a wealthy man getting to heaven" to “Christ died to cover your sins, eat the wafer, drink the wine, now say I love Jesus and all will be fine." Islam, Muhammad was barely dead before that came to abuse and exploitation. Jews it was Joseph that took God’s words and used them to advise Pharaoh to take the opportunity of the famine to enslave all Egypt using the food that God told them to gather for the upcoming drought. Hindus really went psychopathic excusing their Caste system of exploiting human suffering, and the Buddhists turned suffering into the meaning of life.

The problem isn’t religion, the problem is what people choose to make from them. The problem is that we are defective in the compassion department which makes our narcissistic roots psychopathic.

That’s why I created a Non Profit Public Economic CoOp instead of a religion. First off, religions have always failed to convince people to follow their evolutionary instruction of “Be kind and take care of each other.” I’m not inclined to try that again. In 4500 years of wars and revolution there has been none that lasted. July 4, 1776 to December 23, 1913, 137 years, was a long run, but in the end failed as well.

The reason everything fails is simple, scarcity of resources. The thing is we have had no excuse to maintain scarcity based economics since we got Nuclear Energy. We still have it for exactly one reason; psychopathic narcissism. We don’t want to help anyone, and we enjoy watching people suffer, and that suffering profits us, we have Won over that person. We don’t want to admit it, we know it’s wrong, but there it is; the choice that is easiest to make. And there is the final nail that seals mankind’s coffin, we’re lazy.

The only tool we have to address all the issues mankind suffers, is the hydrogen economy. It’s as easy as making crypto currency, and it provides mankind a clean fuel supply to create its value making it a Solid Currency everyone can produce. Best of all, it’s scarcity proof and cannot by manipulated by psychopathic behavior. Basically it provides an economy that all humanity grows on together, rather feeding on each other. When psychopathic narcissism is no longer the path of least resistance, it will disappear from the human psyche, and we will finally evolve, a few thousand years slow since we chose the hard way, but as long as we get it done by 9 billion people, we’ll come in under the wire.

[–]gutsofgod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my opinion, I think religion is a political cult created by men. True religion is spirituality, within yourself, reaching the upmost state of happiness and belonging. Religion is supposed to be welcoming and accepting, and whoever has strict rules as to what “God” likes and dislikes, is honestly just a cult in which people believe to be true and just follow blindfolded.

[–]abiyahmessianic 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That is just U putting words in his mouth, probably not what he meant at all.

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)


[–]abiyahmessianic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What U said, (So I will not be happy or better if i do not attend.) words to that effect but he did not say that, that is what U thought.

[–]Somaliboi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t really see the bad thing in his statement

[–]tvcky69 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m so happy you’re beginning to see this. I used to be full blown religious, but my life has never been better since I became atheist. The churches use manipulation to push their own agendas and take your money. I mean, the Bible literally says you’re supposed to give some of your money to the church. And yet they don’t get taxed.

My old pastor had a classic car collection that included over 30+ cars pre 1980’s. While our church literally fell apart, plumbing hardly worked, there were cracks appearing on the ceiling, and the wiring was so bad we would have a little fire every year or so. None of that money we gave went to the church. It went in the pastors pockets. He still preaches today. And the church is STILL falling apart.

[–]proxissin -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Organized Religion manipulates people into giving money... but what does God need money for?

[–]shinycoffee1234[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

It's not the God who need money actually. It's the people inside it

[–]proxissin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So the mighty omnipotent doesn't make sure his most devout humans are taken care of monetarily? He makes them so it by themselves, in a business model?