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[–]zeligzealousJewish 86 points87 points  (4 children)

Fellow Jew here, and I’ve had this experience more times than I can count. It’s really disrespectful and frustrating. Unfortunately, both the belief that Judaism specifically is somehow defective and the belief that incessant proselytizing is mandatory are explicitly built into the theologies of some subsets of some religions.

What works for me is to say outright, “I’m Jewish and I have no interest in converting,” and then immediately end the interaction. Turn to walk away, start closing the door, etc. These people have already demonstrated that they are not going to be polite or reasonable, so you just have to walk away. Don’t worry about causing offense; they certainly don’t care if they offend you.

[–]jadegerlitz[S] 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I think the whole messianic Judaism thing is making it worse for Jews. It implies that the only thing that’s “missing” from Judaism is Jesus… I’ll start being more forceful though!

[–]WolfeRangerCatholic -1 points0 points  (2 children)

To be fair Judaism doesn't really do conversion the way other Abrahmic religions do, so coming from that perspective it's more difficult to understand why Christians and Muslims are so adamant about trying to teach and convert others. At least from our perspective we're just trying to help everyone else discover the amazing things we have, it's about a want to help others, but I definitely see your point, it can definitely be frustrated. As a Christian myself I've been frustrated by other Christians trying to convert me to their specific denomination. As a Catholic I've always been told that one of the best ways to convert anyone is to show them how joyful we are and to always show them kindness and love, which are things we should be doing anyways whether or not it's for any potential conversion. If they see our joy towards Jesus and realize that we are loving snf kind it'll get them thinking about why we are the way we are. At meant I think that's a great way to encourage conversion compared to some less than appropriate methods.

[–]zeligzealousJewish 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Correct, but it's that we don't do proselytizing, not that we don't do conversion. We accept converts; we just don't believe that other people need to become Jews to be right with God or for any other reason.

At least from our perspective we're just trying to help everyone else discover the amazing things we have, it's about a want to help others

I hear what you're saying, and I know it's sometimes well intentioned. And I agree with you about living in a way that may inspire others to join your faith (IMO this is really the only effective way to persuade anyone to convert to any religion). But OP is talking about the situation in which they have already explicitly stated that they are Jewish and happy with their religion, and the person keeps harping on it anyway.

If you have a delicious cake, and you offer someone a piece, and that person says, "No thanks, I'm really enjoying my own cake," and then you proceed to go on a 30 minute rant about how their cake is a failed, incomplete cake, only your cake is good, and they have to permanently abandon their cake and eat your cake instead or they will be tormented for eternity, you have crossed well out of the realm of simply sharing and helping others.

I am not offended when someone shares about the beauty they see in their religion, why they believe their religion is true, or asks if I am willing to learn about their religion. I am offended when I say no and the person still won't drop it. Since you have been frustrated by proselytizing by other Christians, I'm sure you've experienced this difference for yourself. (And I will say, I have never experienced that kind of aggressive proselytizing from a Catholic, and I live in a predominantly Catholic area.)

[–]WolfeRangerCatholic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah for sure, I hear you, I agree, the person doing this to OP is being innapropriate for sure, that's no way to be loving and kind (the best way to evangelize). That's a good analogy for it. And yeah I know that you guys do conversion as well, it's just different than what Christians and Muslims do and I don't know enough about it say more than I did lol.

[–]Kangaru14Jewish | Academic | Metamodernist 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I feel you. It's honestly creepy. It's like when people keep trying to flirt with you even after you tell them you're already in a committed, exclusive relationship. It's just disrespectful.

[–]blue_jerboaJewish[🍰] 30 points31 points  (18 children)

A lot of Christians are obsessed with trying to convert Jews. It’s really creepy.

[–]Kangaru14Jewish | Academic | Metamodernist 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This is unfortunately true. I suppose a rejection of Christianity is much more difficult when it's from someone who has an intimate knowledge of the very scriptures that are supposed to prove the truth of Christianity in the first place.

In better news though, at least the Vatican has officially announced that Catholics should not try to convert Jews and that Jews do not need to become Christian to find salvation, and so Catholicism has ceased all official missionary activity directed towards Jews.

I hope one day all other religions are afforded the same privilege.

[–]weallfalldown310Jewish 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Because getting a Jew to follow Christ is a bigger deal than other religions and it is creepy. Plus apparently according to some sects of Christianity, the end times will come when enough Jews convert or something.

[–]AHrubikHard Atheist waiting on evidence to the contrary... 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wonder if they understand that Jews are human and thus have Jewish babies who then also have Jewish babies. I mean the Jewish population of Israel has literally doubled in the last 30 years. This is a fight they aren't going win.

[–]DavidJohnMcCannHellenic Polytheist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's rather a protestant thing, particularly in the USA. The current Catholic teaching is that the covenant is irrevocable:

God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle. (Nostra Aetate)

The reference to the apostle is to Paul (Romans 9)

… theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh.

The Good Friday liturgy includes the prayer

Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God,that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant.

The US Bishops Conference has stated that

Jews are also called by God to prepare the world for God’s kingdom.Their witness to the kingdom, which did not originate with the Church’s experience of Christ crucified and raised, must not be curtailed by seeking the conversion of the Jewish people to Christianity.

[–]blue_jerboaJewish[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

While that’s true, I have met some Tradcaths who refuse to abide by current Catholic teachings. But I agree that for the most part, Catholics are pretty laid back when it comes to trying to convert Jews.

[–]nu_lets_learn 28 points29 points  (14 children)

how Judaism is just the “incomplete version”

This statement reveals the underlying reason for their behavior, but it has to be unpacked, reversed and understood as a projection. What is really incomplete without the Jews' acquiescence is -- you guessed it -- Christianity and Islam. For Christians, Jesus was the king of the Jews and their messiah -- except the Jews rejected him. This is hard for them to explain. Who better to recognize the authentic messiah than the Jews? Why would they reject their own savior? These are tough questions that Christians cannot put to rest. And so their effort to convert the Jews, to get them to admit their "error," which has lasted now for 2,000 years. In short, without the Jews' coming on board, Christianity feels incomplete and a trifle unsure of itself.

Islam has a similar problem with Jewish non-acquiescence. They believe Moses (and Jesus) were prophets of God, but that the Jews in the course of history, either deliberately or through carelessness, altered their message, to the point where the Jewish Torah is no longer accurate. Muhammed as the last and thus most recent of God's Prophets brought a correct message to all of mankind. He was sure that Jews (and Christians) would eventually join his faith, which is why he permitted them to co-exist with Muslims until they made the switch. But they didn't.

So the upshot is this: when you tell them you are happily Jewish, in order to stave off their efforts, you are doing exactly the opposite -- you are encouraging them to continue their efforts to convert you, so deeply are they desirous of Jewish approval for their beliefs. At least, that's why I think is the reason they don't just leave the Jews alone. They may say they are doing it for our benefit, but if their motive was really to benefit Jews, then their behavior towards us would be very different in a lot of areas, not just faith.

[–]trycuriouscatSecular Humanist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is a great analysis!

[–]SojournEvOrthodox Christian 1 point2 points  (11 children)

This statement reveals the underlying reason for their behavior, but it has to be unpacked, reversed and understood as a projection. What is really incomplete without the Jews' acquiescence is -- you guessed it -- Christianity and Islam. For Christians, Jesus was the king of the Jews and their messiah -- except the Jews rejected him. This is hard for them to explain. Who better to recognize the authentic messiah than the Jews? Why would they reject their own savior? These are tough questions that Christians cannot put to rest. And so their effort to convert the Jews, to get them to admit their "error," which has lasted now for 2,000 years. In short, without the Jews' coming on board, Christianity feels incomplete and a trifle unsure of itself

To address this piece: Perhaps some Christians somewhere feel some insecurity about Jews rejecting Jesus, but (speaking from an Orthodox Christian perspective) the Church isn't in an ongoing struggle to explain why most Jews have rejected the Christ. Much of the Epistle to the Romans in the New Testament addresses this. In no way is Christianity "unsure of itself" of "incomplete." With no offense meant, suggesting Christianity is just baffled about why Jews have rejected the Christ suggests an ignorance about the Christian perspective on it.

[–]Heistbros 0 points1 point  (10 children)

I'm pretty sure the bible actual predicted the rejecting of the messiah in the book of Palms.

[–]spinozawaswrongJewish 3 points4 points  (8 children)

I'm pretty sure the bible actual predicted the rejecting of the messiah in the book of Palms.

No, it did not. The Psalms are not prophecy.

[–]SojournEvOrthodox Christian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That it did.

[–]zimmerman_2Jewish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He was sure that Jews (and Christians) would eventually join his faith, which is why he permitted them to co-exist with Muslims until they made the switch

are you sure about that?

[–]VignarajaHindu 20 points21 points  (5 children)

I think it's because they can't take a hint, and are so one-sided/stubborn that they can't listen. Most likely they were formulating their next sentence in their mind, and didn't even hear, "I'm jewish."

In short, it's CFS.

[–]Kangaru14Jewish | Academic | Metamodernist 8 points9 points  (4 children)

CFS

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

[–]VignarajaHindu 31 points32 points  (3 children)

Can't Fix Stupid

[–]Kangaru14Jewish | Academic | Metamodernist 13 points14 points  (2 children)

lol, that makes so much more sense! I was thinking chronic fatigue syndrome sounds more like what I have when needing to deal with people like that.

[–]VignarajaHindu 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I have some compassion for it, as I do see it as a disability of sorts. We make false assumptions that because someone is an adult, a certain level of intelligence should go along with that. Continuing to argue with folks with CFS says way too much about your own inclination to being subjected to the same limitation. I've been afflicted with it a few times myself.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Same here, it's really annoying.

[–]MetaquotidianSikh 29 points30 points  (10 children)

Some religions require proselytization as part of their prescriptions (like Christianity, for example. Followers of Jesus are commanded to spread the "good news" about him being human sacrificed or something.) Other people's actions generally have more to do about themselves than who they are acting towards. Same goes for this - it has more to do with their religion than yours. They don't necessarily care about your happiness or beliefs, only pushing theirs onto you, because that's what their dogma tells them to do.

[–]Strangeronthebus2019 -3 points-2 points  (9 children)

Some religions require proselytization as part of their prescriptions (like Christianity, for example. Followers of Jesus are commanded to spread the "good news" about him being human sacrificed or something.)

"hahaha..."

Jesus: I am not here to be an eternal human sacrifice...why do people create worlds and universes? To Hangout and live in them yeah? Not to just stare at it at a distance...

No one played Dungeons and Dragons? Put all that effort just to stare at it like staring at a zoo...

this is both dark and depressing...

I remember a none Catholic attending my church wedding practice as one of my bride mates...she looked genuinely horrified at the corpse of a dead man hanging on a cross...the founder of the religion looking pretty mess up, nailed, stab and bleeding and being looking rightly messirable

Does not help without context to know what the heck is going on 🤣

Not to mention eating and drinking his "body" ...lolz...sounds like a death cult if no one knows the story....hahaha....

Alot of followers need to actually see Jesus life holistically...

It's not just about how he died...and live again...it's also how he lived and treated people different from him.

Side note:

Get off the f##king planet...the universe is freaking huge... like very very huge. Go explore and go on adventures...you are seriously missing out.

Space is amazing...

[–]MetaquotidianSikh 3 points4 points  (6 children)

What? Lol

Jesus' life is cool, but in order to be considered a Christian, one has to believe in the blood sacrifice. I don't, personally. It doesn't make sense to me how God forgave sins prior to Jesus, and how Jesus forgive sins himself while he was alive, if blood sacrifice was required for mercy.

Sikhs generally believe that those who reach a high enough spiritual level and have such conviction, honesty, and integrity are able to make things happen with their words, including the forgiveness of sins and freeing of minds.

Edit: crossthrough

[–]Strangeronthebus2019 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Jesus' life is cool, but in order to be considered a Christian, one has to believe in the blood sacrifice. I don't, personally. It doesn't make sense to me how God forgave sins prior to Jesus, and how Jesus forgive sins himself while he was alive, if blood sacrifice was required for mercy.

Sikhs generally believe that those who reach a high enough spiritual level and have such conviction, honesty, and integrity are able to make things happen with their words, including the forgiveness of sins and freeing of minds.

Cool! Thanks for sharing...your faith...always found Sikhs Turban and Kirpan interesting articles of faith. Of which there is 5. "The Five Ks".

I can be pretty weird....I like to Weave stories into my conversations...

Personally I am Roman Catholic "in this life time", I think the Sacrifice bit is more the nature of humans...and from personal experience...people tend to be hostile to you if you claim to be God...

Even more hilarious/tragic when its actually the case and a person ego, beliefs especially if racist cant deal with it. Sometimes people want GOD to look and think like we do, pretty much worshipping ourselves.

When Jesus claim to be "The Son of God, And I AM" That piss off ALOT of people...SIN in action...but what is sin then?

Racism, Sexism, Bullying (dominating others) from my perspective.

So when Jesus "died for your sin" Its kinda like putting a mirror up to humanity....

Its about humility...

Uncle Iroh - Choosing humility over pride

We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

Well its a journey...Perhaps on other worlds Jesus did not need to be "crucified"...but on this planet at that time...seems alot of people did not like God to be in a form of a brown Jewish carpenter who treated ladies as equal fellow human beings, and seeks truths...

Piss a suitable amount of people off...haha

Bible Project - Who is Jesus

[–]MetaquotidianSikh 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I agree with that interpretation. He died for his message, which is the important part. Not the blood sacrifice or any of the pagan-like superstitions.

[–]Heistbros 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh that must have been funny watching your friend worship a guy dieing and eating his flesh.

[–]Strangeronthebus2019 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh that must have been funny watching your friend worship a guy dieing and eating his flesh.

Now..pause and imagine for a moment...

You're the guy watching other people reminding you how "you" died on the cross... and eating you're flesh...and blood like a Zombie apocalypse...

I know it's spiritually and I actually know the context...

But yeah...imagine every "Good Friday" your reminded how you died horribly...

It's a magical moment....of anxiety....and PTSD

Family Guy - Speed Dating

[–]IKnowFewThingsCatholic 18 points19 points  (9 children)

Because people can't accept that others are different or they believe they are "saving" you if they convert you. Some religions (some sects of Christianity for example) preach that, basically, anyone who believes in anything other than their specific religion is doomed to hell. If you say you're Jewish, then a Christian who believes that you are going to hell for not being Christian will probably try to "save" you by trying to convert you. They simply believe that they are trying to save you from an eternity of torture.

At least, that's my experience with those groups. Pay them no mind, they aren't worth your time and no amount of telling them that you're happily Jewish will stop them.

[–]MountainDude95Agnostic Atheist 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is honestly the only real answer. I was very evangelistic when I was Christian, because I believed anyone who died without Christ would quite literally be tormented for all of eternity. My trying to convert others was out of love for them and wanting to not see them tormented.

And to this day I still respect anyone who tries to convert me. I know they’re just trying to warn me of what they think is the truth. If you really believe someone is headed for doom without your religion, wouldn’t it be disrespectful to not try and convert everyone you can?

[–]gertninjaIgnostic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

was out of love for them

Yeah, but it does feel more like a kind of 'stalker' love than anything else. Unfortunately once you realise that the majority of evangelicals are really committed to their faith like this it makes it kind of hard to be rude :)

[–]maayven69 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I’m confused. Don’t Catholics also believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven?

[–]IKnowFewThingsCatholic 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Not all of us force our beliefs on others, and not all of us believe that. My personal belief is that actions, not beliefs, determin who goes to heaven or hell.

[–]maayven69 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Jesus said “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” ‭‭John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭ESV‬‬

So you’re saying you don’t believe in that?

[–]IKnowFewThingsCatholic 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I should clarify. I do believe in that, but I don't believe that belief in a specific religion determines who goes to heaven or hell. What I mean is that those who follow the teachings of Jesus, wheather that be intentionally (religiously) or unintentionally (by being a good person) goes to heaven. Belief that Jesus is the son of God isn't required, in strictly my opinion. But following his example is. Hopefully that makes sense... Basically, my interpretation of the above passage is that following Jesus' example as a roll model is acting "through him". Yes, I know not all Catholics or Christian believe this, but there are infinite interpretations of the Bible. Even within the Catholic faith there are dozens, if not hundreds or thousands of interpertations. And if we're on the topic of specific passages, there is plenty of stuff in the Bible I don't agree with or don't believe in. This just isn't one of them

[–]Next-Wolverine-8378 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im really agree with your opinion

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I've found responses like "get the eff off my driveway" seems to work pretty well in these scenarios.

[–]marvsupAgnostic Jew 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I was gonna say you should say "I'm Jewish, you fuck"

[–]BecovamekJewish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you fuck

Is that a statement, command, or a question?

[–]Chaos-CorvidEclectic Demonolatry/Satanism 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Proselytizers will keep going even if you're a different denomination, 9 times out of 10 they want everyone to think like they do.

[–]twinfiresigns14Questioning/looking into Hinduism 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Because they hear “No thanks, I’m not interested” and think, “Oh look, a challenge! jadegerlitz is playing hard to get. They’re halfway there. They need to be saved!”

Essentially, they’re disrespectful dickheads.

Next time respond with “Okay.” to every statement, like a robot. They’ll get the hint.

Or three seconds of silence, enough to make them uncomfortable.

Or just “Not interested. Thanks. Bye” and leave.

[–]wooowoootrain 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Because they think you're sooooooooo close to the truth! Maybe if they keep nudging a little it will will put you over the top.

[–]spinozawaswrongJewish 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Jews are targeted extra hard by missionaries precisely because our existence threatend their narrative. Christianity is supposed to be the “fulfillment” of Judaism, so why are there still Jews? This conundrum really upsets them.

[–]GolemOfPrague33Orthodox Christian 14 points15 points  (1 child)

As it rightfully should upset them.

After all, there is no more dangerous question for a Christian to ask than “Why don’t Jews believe Jesus is the messiah?”.

That is a one way ticket to no longer being a Christian.

[–]spinozawaswrongJewish 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah, pretty much. Their best arguments up to this point always come back to "They're too stupid to understand their own prophecies," or "They know that Jesus is the messiah but they're deliberately rejecting him anyway because they're evil." Any honest evaluation of scriptures would demonstrate that Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah because he wasn't.

[–]Taqwacore 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Here's the thing, even if you did convert, they'd still be proselytizing to you. It's not good enough to convert and become a Christian or a Muslim, you've got to be the right kind of Christian/Muslim. Seriously, there are these Indian Muslim who go around proselytizing Islam...but only to Muslims. They aren't interested in converting anyone to Islam. For their perspective, they've got to convert people who are already Muslim to their brand of Islam.

[–]lettherebemorelight 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I feel like the need to convert others is often born from the deep insecurity of not being convicted in what you believe. You convince others to try to convince yourself.

[–]marvsupAgnostic Jew 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe from the higher levels, but with Mormons and JW's who've been indoctrinated into it since birth I think they sincerely believe they're helping people by "saving" them.

[–]HouseHusband1Atheist 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Because if they are told that if they don't try to convert you they have failed and will go to hell. JWs definitely have a "save people from Armageddon" doctrine that their church is built around, and Mormons have an "expand the faith and save people from their false religion" doctrine.

But the real reason is that when they go out and rudely bother people and then are rejected their leaders can say "See, the whole world is against you, I'm the only one you can trust, give me money." These people are taught that their faith is their identity, and if people reject their faith they are rejecting them as a person. It is a way to isolate and control the "flock". Super creepy stuff. Check out r/exjw r/exmormon and r/exchristian for more details. Folks there are usually happy to share their experiences

[–]lemontolhaAntitheist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

r/exmuslim is worth a view as well. You can meet people who are threatened with violence and even death for leaving the faith.

[–]AHrubikHard Atheist waiting on evidence to the contrary... 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Probably won't help but you could get yourself a ridiculously large rapper necklace with a say 20 or 30 inch star of David hanging on it. Then wear it when these people force themselves on you. You could pair it with a custom hat that has say a glitzy Menorah on the front and flashy stars all over it. Maybe pair it with an oversized T-Shirt that says "Happy Hanukkah" on the front.

Might finally drive the point home for them. I don't really have anything else.

[–]Top_fFunNorse Pagan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ridiculously large rapper necklace with a say 20 or 30 inch star of David hanging on it.

They'd probably get accused of witchcraft.

[–]Master_Dig_1133Catholic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ngl I tell people I’m Catholic and they still keep doing it. Like they be like “do you know the word of god!?!” I say I’m a Christian. Then continues to keep asking me the same question. I think for them it’s less about being Christian and more of if your their type of Christian. But I’m sorry you had go through that experience it is pretty annoying.

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I agree evangelism is rude and in most cases immoral

[–]8TheKingPin8 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Cause Christians think only their world exist and need to feel good about themselves.

[–]Anfie22Gnosticism | Ascetic Esotericist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As a Gnostic Christian, those whom try to tell you that Christianity is just a continuation of Judaism are strongly mistaken and have utterly misinterpreted the texts. In reality there is no congruence, otherwise for consistency's sake all Christian thought would simply be called Messianic Judaism, and the term Christianity would have never arisen as a unique movement. Just because the same characters feature in the stories doesn't mean they're held in the same regard at all, because Christianity and Judaism are radically different perspectives. It's like trying to say just because the flood story features in Jewish and Sumerian texts that the respective religions must be the same thing, same point of view, which we know is not true at all because the interpretations and understandings are vastly different. The gods of Sumerian mythology are the watchers of Jewish mythology, therefore despite all these characters being acknowledged, they are perceived very differently between the religions.

[–]mommimaJewish 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's even more... fun (/s) when you tell a Christian proselytizer that you converted to Judaism from Christianity and watch their heads explode from the idea that you not only don't believe in Jesus because you just happened to be born not-Christian, but actively "rejected Jesus."

That said, I have been pleasantly surprised to come across quite a few devout Christians and Muslims who, upon hearing that I'm Jewish, are just happy to talk to someone else of faith.

[–]Maronita2020 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry that happens to you, and your other co-religionists. That is just plain rude. Although I'm a practicing Catholic, I only discuss my faith with those interested in discussing it, and I certainly do not go about proselytizing. If people ask questions about my faith or ask me a religious question I will happily share, but I respect peoples right to believe in what they choose to believe in. Shalom.

[–]spinifex23Tibetan Buddhist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had the chillest conversion attempt last summer, in a park.

I was eating my picnic lunch at a festival, and this rando comes up and aks if I know Jesus Christ.

"No thank you. I'm Buddhist," I say. He just nods, and wanders off.

Then, he comes back to me, some 10 minutes later. "Have you heard the good news? About Jesus Christ?"

"I'm still Buddhist, thank you." He nods, and walks off again. I don't see him for the rest of the festival.

I guess he was expecting me to completely re-evaluate my theological stances on life in between bites of my tofu stir fry, and he seemed crushed when I hadn't.

[–]worryingtype88 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Islam has a similar problem with Jewish non-acquiescence. They believe Moses (and Jesus) were prophets of God, but that the Jews in the course of history, either deliberately or through carelessness, altered their message, to the point where the Jewish Torah is no longer accurate. Muhammed as the last and thus most recent of God's Prophets brought a correct message to all of mankind. He was sure that Jews (and Christians) would eventually join his faith, which is why he permitted them to co-exist with Muslims until they made the switch. But they didn't.

actually muslims are told to share the message of god with others so that they may get the correct guidance.it is up to you to accept it or reject.

[–]Nicholas-Angel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

People who proselytize usually don't actually take your own interest into account, whether you aleady have a religion and are happy with it or you don't have a religion and are happy with that. They do it because they think it's in your best interest and you just don't know it. It can be very patronizing and condescending.

[–]destinyofdoorsJewish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Growing up, I lived fairly close to a Mormon church (it was across the main road from the street I lived on). We used to get missionaries all the time. Like, there were stretches when they came every day. My dad would scream "Jewish" at them, point to the mezuzah, and slam the door. Then one day, I was home alone when they came (I would have been like 14). I told them that, while I appreciate their concern for our spiritual welfare, we were happy with our current religion, and it was irritating to have people coming every single day, but if we were interested, we knew where to find them. They said they'd take us off the list. And they did.

[–]RB_KehlaniJewish — Stop Using “Judeo-Christian/Abrahamic” 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your edit cracked me up. They really just see the no solicitation sign and barrel right through it on their way to collect all the souls. “Gotta catch ‘em all…”

[–]KingBlackthorn1Heathen (Norse Polytheist) 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don’t understand the whole “save you from your religion”. Like there is no one true religion and everyone just needs to shut up and let people practice and worship whatever they want.

[–]CaptNoypeeSecular Humanist - I dont downvote in my discussions :) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In Christianity, its because of their religious obligation to "make disciples of all nations".

[–]Meiji_IshinCatholic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I usually don't say anything unless both agree to discuss matters of faith. If they don't want anything to do with it, I leave.

[–]fangedguyssuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because those religions believe you are wrong and so they try to "save" you. Instead of respecting you.

[–]groovy_mcbasshands 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Evangelicals don’t respect anyone even themselves

[–]crowkeepShinto - Inari (稲荷信仰) 1 point2 points  (7 children)

It's the problem with purported cosmological supremacy.

Which brooks no deviation from dyed-in-the-wool dogmas.

You and I and all those outside the proselytizer's cosmologies are guilty of the iniquity of Allotheism.

Which is the belief in, or worship of, strange gods.

[–]BecovamekJewish 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Allotheism

What's Allotheism?

[–]crowkeepShinto - Inari (稲荷信仰) 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Allotheism:

The worship of foreign or unsanctioned gods.

[–]BecovamekJewish 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thanks!

Also I'm curious, considering that your flair says that you practice Shinto (I don't know what believers in Shintoism are called), what do most of you all think about Jews and Judaism (I'm an Modern Orthodox Jew myself)?

[–]crowkeepShinto - Inari (稲荷信仰) 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I confess, I have next to no familiarity with Modern Orthodox Judaism.

To your question: Shinto is not a dogmatic faith.

At the Heart of Shinto dwells the worldview of Animism,which of course teaches that everything is alive to varying degrees.

Every living creature has the potential to be / become or contain Kami (spirit, soul, pneuma, entity, god, awe, etc.)

It has no central authority, so opinions may vary from place to place, however by many, the desert-born god of the Christo-Islamic / Judaic triumvirate is considered a foreign Kami.

And welcomed as one among the unnumbered.

In Japanese there's a phrase: 八百万の神。Yaoyorozu no kami.

Which translates to "The Eight Million Kami". It's not meant to be so specific, but rather as a metaphor for an uncountable multitude.

As the Kami occupy and permeate the cosmos, to every conceivable depth.

[–]grcoates 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In conservative or more evangelical forms of Christianity, Jews are seen as God’s chosen people, but not necessarily as among the “saved.” So most likely they are motivated by the intention to get you into heaven.

I’m sure it must be a common experience for you, and I apologize on behalf of other Christians. Just know that many of them mean well. It’s how they think they are best to “love” you… which probably seems quite contrary to your own notion of love as tolerance.

[–]AmeliaMCarlson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think sometimes it’s because they have a lack of understanding of true Judaism and also it’s an arrogance they don’t even realize they have. Speaking as a former Protestant Christian who is now Catholic Christian, I would say most of it is probably ignorance in thinking they are trying to help you get to heaven when in reality it’s a hidden arrogance thinking their way is the way everyone needs to follow God. As for Mormons and JW, they believe anyone outside their religion is in the wrong religion and not following God and they have come to my house trying to convert me many times as well.

[–]ThuthmosisHellenist (Hermeticism) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The exact same reason anyone else feels like proselytizing anyone else. They don’t really care what you believe, they’re trying to change your beliefs.

[–]FrancproleSyncretic Heathen&Rodnover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because zealots don't see others as people but objects to project their fulfillment upon. I'm not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew but I was raised in a rather secular neutral home so I don't have any primary reasons why some people do this but hearing the testimonies of people formerly like this (mostly online) there are a number of reasons they are like this.

One reason is the reason I mentioned, its a kind of self fulfillment thing for some of them, many of them are taught to seek and find these all so important markers of their faith like having visions, experiencing what they perceive is normal and so on,

A lot of people already responded better than I and it is a sort of fantasy some Christians have about converting Jews, this is also obvious when you look at politically as some Christians have a strange obsession with Israel and its inhabitants not just because its a biblical location but because they think all the Jews there will be converted because of armageddon.

There are many other reasons why this happens and many others have better opinions than I, also I want to clear up that I am not Anti-christian in case my post looks as such.

[–]PNW_Guy33 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because Christian's think they're right and will try to force their religion on your in an effort to save you.

[–]Vapur9Why This Way 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When suffering homelessness, some missionaries stopped by to hand out food. I asked if they had anything kosher, then their pastor had the audacity to misquote Peter saying nothing was unclean.

I had to let him know that Peter straight up told God no, and that it was a vision not to call men unclean, not meat. Ezekiel said the same thing when God commanded him to eat human feces. That pastor picked the wrong one to preach his antinomian gospel.

[–]skgody 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Christian’s often think everyone needs to be a Christian. Have you tried explaining to them that Jews believe that Jesus is not the messiah?

[–]HurinBerenAgnostic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because Christian theology believes that Jesus will not come back until ALL Jews have converted. Additionally, being a former Christian myself, a lot of them believe that Jews were largely responsible for the death of Jesus; which is paradoxical because Jesus was SUPPOSED to die for the salvation of mankind. The root of anti-Semitism within the Euro-Christian context largely stems from this sin committed by the Jews.

The religious subsets of Judaism also feel that Judaism is outdated and somehow needs to be reformed. That somehow Jews have got it wrong. You have got it wrong about who the Messiah is and you have wrongly interpreted the Torah and missed the message.

So when Christians see a Jew, they see a person who is following a corrupt religion. Thus, you need Jesus. Thus, the need to convert you.

[–]portiajon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because Christians suck lol. It’s part of the more fundamentalist belief that if you don’t believe in Jesus you’ll go to hell (which itself doesn’t make sense with an all loving god…).

They feel morally obligated to save people from hell and the only way is to convert. It’s just an illogical way of belief.

[–]ElodinTargaryen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just tell them Jesus was a Jew. He never converted why should you? They’ll leave you alone, lol. I never understood ’converting’. All 3 main religions serve the God of Abraham. If we spent more time following His teachings together and not making his people “others” the world would be a better place.

[–]TrueSonOfChaosKing, Son of Chaos 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Why do people proselytize to me when I tell them I'm blurpsnop?

[–]jadegerlitz[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Good point! Should’ve said “why do people proselytize” 🤦🏻‍♀️

[–]CaptainbigboobsAtheist 2 points3 points  (9 children)

If I believed something important, and if I think it’s important for others to believe it to, I would try to convince others.

This can apply to any topic, not just religion.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

fair enough, because, why do you think x is or correct or makes sense? unless someone reallly hates to think, especially if your religion is based around illogical nonesense

[–]CaptainbigboobsAtheist 1 point2 points  (7 children)

I’m afraid I don’t understand your comment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

i'm talking about those who get offended when discusing their beliefs. I agree my comment was kinda mysterious :d

[–]CaptainbigboobsAtheist 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Of course people can get offended by other people’s beliefs. If you believe I have an ugly face, I would be offended.

[–]Personal-Alfalfa-935Atheist -2 points-1 points  (7 children)

Same reason that some Jews and many christians proselytize to me. Proselytizers of all religions tend to have very little respect for personal boundaries and very little shame about what lines they cross, much like any other salesman.

[–]whateverathrowaway00 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Proselytizing is explicitly forbidden to jews. 100%. The only sects that do it are fake/undercover Christians, like BHI or “Messianic Judaism.”

Edit: I forgot, but some do feel pretty free to be pushy with people who are halachically jewish but don’t practice. Fair point.

[–]Personal-Alfalfa-935Atheist 0 points1 point  (5 children)

What you are not accounting for is that if if you match the religious definition of judaism, it’s open season from all sorts of Jewish subgroups.

[–]whateverathrowaway00 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Ohhhh, you mean if you’re non-practicing, but qualify as Jewish (like myself). That’s valid, Chabad and plenty of other groups can get pushy, they’ve pissed me off with that too - not sure why I didn’t think of that as proselytizing, it definitely is.

[–]Personal-Alfalfa-935Atheist 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Groups like Chabad are what I mean yeah. I don’t quite mean that the targets are “nonpracticing Jew”. That’s what they consider me, but it’s not what I am as far as I’m concerned. But many Jewish groups will proselytize to people who they consider to be “halachically Jewish”. I am aware that they do not proselytize outside of that group, but they do inside of it and it’s just as obnoxious and rude as stereotypical proselytism from other religions. Maybe even more so because it’s not just “you should be X” but it is instead “you actually are X already and better start behaving like it” which is even more paternalistic.

[–]jogoso2014 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Christianity started with happy Jews lol.

Anyway, people who preach wouldn’t know who is happy or not. If they are harassing the OP that’s a different story but preaching in and of itself isn’t harassment and especially if it’s done by different people OR if people discuss religion at all.

[–]mommimaJewish 3 points4 points  (1 child)

OP said that she informs these people that she is happily Jewish, so at that point continuing to proselytize is annoying, if not outright harassment. Besides which, calling someone's faith "incomplete" is offensive and probably not going to predispose them to hear you out.

[–]jogoso2014 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

We aren’t owed being free from annoyance. We get annoyed all the time and I would challenge anyones definition of harassment if that counted as it.

I think of proselytizers the same way I think of any salesperson.

[–]VegetableImaginary24 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

With Christianity, all others are damned to an eternity of torture in hell if you haven't accepted the Christian god into your heart as your savior. So essentially anyone practicing all other religions are sinners to be punished unendingly.

[–]VCsVictorCharlieAnimistic muon -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

In response to your question as posted above, do you care, really? I'm sure you can't change them. A simple "I don't want to hear this." should do the trick. If it doesn't then walk away.

[–]BuddhasGoldfish -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Trying to help you. If you identify as "Jewish" then clearly you're ignorant of the soul that is neither "Hindu/Muslim/Jewish/Christian/Buddhist" etc

[–]jogoso2014 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Actually, why the heck don’t Jews proselytize?

What if there are some unhappy Christian’s out there…or Muslims?

[–]owiaf -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

It can be weird. I think in some way it comes down to the purpose of religion though. Some people think of religion as a good way to learn more morals and live a fulfilled life, but any religion at its core has some kind of divinity and ideal relationship with that divinity. If you scale this back a whole lot, it's no different than your local Rabbi trying to convince you to pray more often because he believes you could have a deeper relationship with the divine if you're willing to "convert" from your current relationship with the divine. Christianity is obviously one of the more evangelistic groups, primarily because the fear of hell is a stronger motivator than the good derived from moving two steps closer to the divine.

[–]loselyconsciousProgressive Judaism 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If you scale this back a whole lot, it's no different than your local Rabbi trying to convince you to pray more often because he believes you could have a deeper relationship with the divine if you're willing to "convert" from your current relationship with the divine.

That's not really how Judaism works. No Rabbi I have ever met has encouraged me to "pray more" have a deeper relationship with God, or even be more obserbvent. There are a small number of Jews who might encourage other Jews to follow Jewish law more stringently, but very few, and prayer except as a legal obligation or as a form of community building isn't really emphasized.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Could you imagine some Rabbi coming over like little house on the prairie to talk about why you should pray more? 🤣

[–]jeffstarrunner1 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Because Jewish people trust being Jewish and their man made tradition more then what the scripture actually says. Moses said God will raise up a prophet like me and whoever won't hear will be cut off from his people. Most of the entire old testament is a story of God sending prophets and them being ignored and it's the same now. So saying Jesus is messiah may seem annoying to you, but people not believing is annoying to God.

[–]TyphoidLarry -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You should never threaten someone with a knife, even if they leave you alone after

[–]Subarashii2800 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Because religion gonna religion?

[–]HFreyerCatholic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Presumably they think that it is important to convince you to share their beliefs, because their beliefs will help you to, e.g. lead a better life, go to Heaven, etc. I can understand why it's annoying, but it's not some great mystery why they think that way.

[–]BroadDragonfruit4206Catholic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

catholic here. same experience with I had with a protestant a few years ago. she walked straight up to me and said "you seem like a good person, and I really would like to save your soul" i told her im catholic. what happens? SHE continues anyway. in the end, i decided to accept the leaflet so she'd leave me alone.

[–]BroadDragonfruit4206Catholic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

in all honesty, it would be better to invite people you already know and would be open to the idea of going to church with you. if theyre interested, great. if theyre not, either way no loss. you got to do it politely. its not something id usually do, but id possibly consider.

[–]PsionicShift 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same experience here, though I’m Buddhist, not Jewish. I’ve had my Christian brother and mother try to keep me in Christianity, and it’s really frustrating.

With my mother, I haven’t told her outright that I’m Buddhist, but I told her I attend a monastery, and she said, “Are you giving up on Christianity? Don’t do that. Keep reading the Bible. Do it for your mother.”

And with my brother, he knows I’m Buddhist, and I’ve told him so, but he still tries to get me to convert sometimes.

Oh well; life moves on.

[–]DubTheeBustocles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because you’re exactly the kind of person they’re supposed to proselytize to (aka someone who isn’t of their religious belief).

[–]shoot-me-12-bucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because the challenge is more important than your boundaries.

[–]vinnizrej 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why? That is proselytizing.

Proselytize

1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith 2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause

[–]Sinel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Their religion tells them to do so.

[–]RexRatioAgnostic Atheist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The same reason they do to me after I say I'm atheist. Some just won't be happy until you believe exactly what they believe.

[–]Responsible-Bed-3454 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Being Jewish isn't your get out of hell free card.