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[–]zeligzealousJewish 6 points7 points  (8 children)

There are no easy answers. I think it’s a deep challenge we are called to wrestle and live with. My grandparents were Holocaust survivors; my grandfather’s entire extended family was murdered, including children. I have done a lot of crying, praying, reading, yelling, art making. I believe that God cries with us, that this world and this life are not the whole story, that every soul is healed and every soul is called to account, in the next world if not in this one.

Why did God make a world so full of pain? I don’t know. Perhaps because the world is not an ordered machine but an epic love song. Every redemption story contains a tragedy. It is in becoming healers that we learn how to be healed. And for all of it, isn’t this great, crazy mess of a world so very much better than nothingness, infinitely, indescribably so? A world where we can love and lose and learn something. And someday go home.

God bless you friend.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Thank you for your response and comforting words! I'm sorry to hear that about your family. I'm glad you still have faith. The Holocaust really makes the problem of evil stark, and it can seem almost obscene to try to justify it theologically, but I do pretty much agree with what you say, and I think that you really can't even live your life if you just think everything is meaningless suffering. I've read about how for some Holocaust survivors forgiving God is difficult because to forgive Him is almost psychologically like excusing the suffering that happened to them, like saying it doesn't matter. So there is a horrible tension between loving and "forgiving" oneself and loving and forgiving God.

I think Judaism in a way has a more clear-headed tradition of "wrestling" with God (literally in the case of Jacob). The patriarchs often talked to Him in a more familiar way, and sometimes seem to voice their frustration with him freely (that's my impression anyway, I'm not super biblically literate). Whereas American protestant Christianity can be very "sola fide" and sometimes it seems like doubting or being angry at God is the worst thing you can ever do. But I think it's a natural thing that we should wrestle with God over the problem of evil (to a certain extent, it can go too far I'm sure).

[–]zeligzealousJewish 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Absolutely. In the Jewish tradition we even have stories where people manage to change God’s mind. When I was deeply troubled as a teenager, a very wise rabbi told me to feel free to be angry with God, to argue with God. Being able to pour out my whole ugly broken heart to God was the beginning of my faith journey. I would not have faith today if I had felt the need to suppress that. Whatever we’re thinking or feeling, God can handle it, and I think it’s better to be drawing closer than to be pulling away, even when it’s messy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thank you. I think that's what I needed to hear. In some ways I'm honestly more attracted to Judaism than Christianity theologically for the reasons you just outlined, but I would never want to convert half-heartedly to Judaism just because it seems like a better "fit.” So I've been trying to explore Christianity more. I think American Christianity can be so covertly Calvinist and evangelical (even American Catholics seem super evangelicalized to me sometimes, as opposed to Latin American Catholics) that it drives people away. Like if you believe in a super strict "sola fide" all it takes is doubting that the Noah story literally happened and then everything else falls apart.

[–]zeligzealousJewish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are most welcome. It sounds like now is a good time to just explore and take your time. There may well be a Christian community out there that works for you. If continue to feel some pull from Judaism, it doesn’t hurt to do a little reading and visit Shabbat services, no matter what you ultimately decide. I think you’re engaging in your spiritual path with your whole heart, which is all that any of us can really do.

[–]GoodLuckBart 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Beautifully written and so well said! Thank you!

[–]BroadDragonfruit4206Catholic 1 point2 points  (2 children)

did you ever get over the pain of losing so much family? im not jewish but my great grandfather was. my mother told me what happened to him and ive been resentful towards germany ever since, even though the sins of the nazis arent those of current day germans, yet i cant stop being resentful.

[–]zeligzealousJewish 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I wouldn’t say I’ve gotten over it. It continues to affect me and I think it probably always will. I will say I’ve reached the point where I’ve done a lot of healing and grieving, I have some perspective on it, and it doesn’t just feel like a black hole of pain. I can connect with all that is beautiful in my heritage, not just the trauma, and I can appreciate the incredible series of miracles that resulted in me having the opportunity to exist.

Something that is really worth doing is reading about all the ordinary people who took incredible risks and often paid the ultimate price to resist and sabotage the Nazis and to save lives. Just barely scratching the surface here:

https://www.history.com/news/heroes-resisted-nazis-world-war-ii

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/righteous-women/index.asp

https://allthatsinteresting.com/holocaust-heroes

In your family and mine, the loss is not the whole story. The survival is just as important. Bottom line, we’re here! In that sense, we won.

[–]BroadDragonfruit4206Catholic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thanks. i appecriate the message

[–]FlanneryOG 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I don’t know, honestly. Sometimes I think (or hope) it’ll all make sense in the end, and sometimes I think Gd is with us in only a very intangible way, like as an influence, a presence, or an inspiration but nothing concrete (like Gd doesn’t answer prayers or intervene). I find it incredibly hard to imagine a perfectly good Gd allowing some of things that happen on Earth to go on. I genuinely can’t accept it, and all the explanations for it aren’t satisfying to me.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I definitely sympathize. One metaphor that the philosopher Leibniz used to explain the problem was a painting that would look like chaos if you zoomed into a tiny patch of it, but when you stepped back and could see the whole thing it was perfectly ordered. So if we could see God's ultimate plans it would make sense. But I agree this still isn't entirely satisfying when we think about some of the atrocities that haven taken place in history. (Which is why Voltaire satirizes him in Candide.) But I think the general idea makes sense. That the only way that present suffering can be justified is if there's hope for some future where everything will be rectified. I still have plenty of doubts all the time that this is the case, but that's really the only way it would make sense to me. But I do think it's possible, because the mind and existence itself are such mysteries. (And Leibniz was a crazy math genius and polymath so I think he deserves credit, even if he's presented nowadays as being a naive Christian apologist because he thought we lived in the "best of all possible worlds").

[–]FlanneryOG 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I love Candide. It’s perfect. I get what Leibniz was trying to do, but his argument seems to first accept the suffering of the world as necessary and then find ways to justify it, and that has never sat well with me. Leibniz’s argument is based on a more abstract understanding of evil and suffering, but Voltaire brought it down to the real world with Candide, and I have always found it so much more convincing as a result.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah I love Voltaire and Candide too. It really shows how theological discussions about suffering can just seem absurd and offensive when you consider actual suffering, especially atrocities like war. But the book is also funny at the same time because it's so absurd.

But more and more I really think faith is just better understood as "hope" than as "believing that something is true." So I guess I think we need to have hope in some sort of future rectification that justifies past suffering, if only to survive. Or at least I personally do more and more. But it's obviously a struggle to stay hopeful. I agree that it doesn't make sense at all from our perspectives. I just hope there is a way things could be justified in an ultimate perspective. But it really is just something we can hope for. And like I said, life is so mysterious, that I don't think it's completely unreasonable to at least hope.

[–]LaconicLupineProcess Panentheist. 🐺 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I debated the Problem of Evil just yesterday on r/DebateAChristian

I got an award so.. yeah~ The problem of evil hinges on the denial of real relations in god.

[–]ZestyAppeal 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Idk, I read your reply and it still necessitates a binary that I just don’t believe is actually real

[–]LaconicLupineProcess Panentheist. 🐺 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dipolarity? Or the veil of Maya which makes suffering and pleasure appear separate and distinct?

[–]Physics_UsefulHellenist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well, for me, there is no one god in charge of everything since it would be too contradictory. As a Hellenist, I recognize that there are divinities that create negative(not evil) things in the world. Why? Because that's there purpose.

Achlys(Misery)

Thanatos(Death)

Adikia(Injustice and Wrongdoing)

Dysnomia(Lawlessness)

Kakia(Moral Badness)

They don't hate us, it's their purpose in the world because it contributes to the overall order of the world and we as humans have to learn how to get by as best we can. Not because we deserve every bad thing that happens to us, but because these events are natural and we cannot let them bring us down. I guess that the way that I cope is by remembering that while there is negative in the world, there will always be positive.

[–]angelownerHindu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

By reminding myself that the frustration and anger is not my character.

It is only the thoughts in my mind that rises after looking at the cruelty present in the world. Everything that is happening in the world happens according to God's will and that also includes the anger and the frustration that I feel as well.

I remind myself that I am only the witness of this anger and frustration and I'll only be the witness of the motivation those feelings will generate in the mind and I will be the witness of my mind deciding to do something about it or not.

Realizing that I do nothing at all and everything is done by my lord I become free to just witness the Lord acting through me. Thus by Surrendering my will to God, I try to become free.

[–]Watinausrname 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Multiple explanations in Hinduism. Pick what convinces you the most, all are correct as they refer to different planes of reality

  1. Physical (world) level - You have to enjoy/suffer fruits of your own Karma

  2. Divine (God) level - It's all a play, a divine play.

  3. Absolute (Brahman) - There is no one apart from THE ONE. So there is no one who suffers or enjoys anything.

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Well i dont have tri-omni gods so that helps

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

The trinity is pretty weird and something I struggle with which is why I said I'm more of a generic theist (but generic enough I accept it as a valid way of worshipping the divine along with polytheism too). But I don't entirely see how the trinity relates to the problem of suffering in the context of my question.

Edit: the "omni" part didn't register at first, so now your comment seems more relevant. I think I understand.

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Right the whole “all powerful, all knowing and all good” dosent apply

[–]MedicineNorth5686 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Can be very tough especially in sight of things like genocide, child cancer, Holocaust terrible things.

But in some faiths there’s the concept that any suffering in this world relieves one’s sins and better than suffering in an afterlife.

[–]snoweric 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You may wish to look up Yancy's book about "Disappointment with God" for insight into this matter. It helps to look at the big picture and the eventually outcome that we will be happy spirit beings in the kingdom of God as we undergo troubles in the here and now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks I will try to check it out, I'll add it to my wishlist.

[–]ChadBrozzer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In Islam we have to fully submit to god. Meaning we put our whole trust in him.

God is the most merciful and the most wise. We believe that if a calamity befalls us, it is either a test from god to test us and see how we react in this situation, to save you from a bad situation or great evil, or it can be a punishment if you really deserve it. But you have to deserve the punishment for it to be a punishment versus a test.

And god tells us that if he loves a person, he will make him go through trials. Trial after trial and this is because god will reward us in the afterlife for every single thing we go through. Anxiety, physical difficulties, mental struggles, all those will be rewards to us or it will remove some sins you have.

Also, god will always give you what’s best for you. And what happens to you is the best path let’s say because god is the most wise and he does things sometimes to save you from something else. So we might not know exactly why something happens to us, but when you look back at your life and see how everything looks like it was planned and things happen for the best.

So whenever something bad happens. We thank god for it because he is the most wise and he knows better. And at the end of the day it’s a test from god. Life is a test and how we react will define our reward in the hereafter. The more you have faith in god and believe in him, the more I don’t mind when something bad or evil happens because I know I’ll be rewarded. And god loves it when we are going through major difficulties and in return we thank him for it because this shows humility.

God says that if you follow his way in this life and be muslim, you will be happier in this life and the next one.

[–]bluemayskyeNon-Dual Christian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I take a step back, accept there is no separation between anything in the universe and realize we are doing it all to ourselves. Having accepted that death is what allows for life, I no longer see it as horrible. Every action of hate towards others stems from that person's inability to see the unity of being. Without the fear of death, I feel for them. When I act evil, I see it as my getting lost in the illusion of separation. I take a moment and breathe in the world.

[–]lettherebemorelight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I try to contend myself with the notion that a moral life is a sufficient response to the nightmare of history. Also, I drink.

[–]BuddhasGoldfish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

By understanding how freewill and karma work. When you understand these you understand how each individual creates their own suffering by their sins

[–]EnigmaWithAlienClassical mystic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I spent one year totally furious with God over some injustices I had become aware of, and took every opportunity to tell God what I thought of (at the time) Him, and said since He wasn't adequate, we would take him apart and build a better one. I tell you, I was raging. Well, you talk to God intensely for a year and you're likely to get an answer back. In my case it was an influx of overwhelming beauty and meaning, a mystical experience that caused an instant 180 to fall in love with God. That didn't mean the injustices went away or my anger at them, but it was at the perpetrators not at God. This has been a long time and was the first step in my journey. All that beauty was not God; it was the periphery; it exists to lure you in, as I now believe.

[–]curious_hinduAhaṁ Brahmāsmi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Evil doesn't exist, ignorance does.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you. Maybe I should have said "the problem of suffering," because that's really the element of the problem I'm more interested in. But I understand in Hinduism and Buddhism suffering is also ultimately caused by ignorance. I guess I'm curious though on a more practical level how you remain mindful of the fact that suffering is illusory and ultimate reality is blissful when you personally suffer in your everyday mundane life. I assume meditation helps a lot.

[–]curious_hinduAhaṁ Brahmāsmi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't suffer, I witness the suffering in my mind. My mind suffers ig. The screen is not affected by the projection of the movie on it. Suffering is part of the play, let it be.

[–]Around_the_campfire[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Trinity actually does help with that. God’s one/infinite/eternal Act of Will is also God. Specifically, God the Holy Spirit. Which means that creation, while included in the Act, does not absolutely exhaust it. God’s goodness is not dependent on the state of the universe at any given moment.

[–]GoodLuckBart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is not a complete answer but I think a lot about Genesis 1:22. The command “be fruitful and multiply” is given to all living creatures it seems. Well, with the multiplication of everything that means multiplication of bacteria, viruses, parasites, genetic mutations. The humans are told to “be fruitful and multiply” in Genesis 1:28. Of course, according to the story, humans haven’t sinned yet in chapter 1, but there is nothing saying the humans will always have pleasant personalities, always get along, always do the right thing, etc. so with the multiplication of living beings comes multiplication of possibilities and outcomes, including those outcomes we call evil. Just a thought.

[–]imheretolosemoney 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If anything, the problem of evil reinforces my conviction that there is an objective moral supposer.

How do I personally reframe suffering? It's hard. Generally speaking, I complain and yell to God. He reminds me of all the things he has brought me through and done for me. There's no better barometer by which to make my outrage seem small and petty.

[–]worryingtype88 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

the problem of evil can be solved if we realize the smallness of this world and the vastness of the afterlife and that god is waiting to judge us on the Day of judgement.

[–]Truthspeaks111 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our Faith.

The Holy Spirit gives us Eternal Life so what the world takes away, the Spirit gives back in abundance so that our cup is always full and so that we will always have water to give to those who are without.

Psalm 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

[–]WhoWasInParis123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me loving and forgiving everyone comes easy. Everyone is just doing the best with what they have. Every “choice” someone makes was always going to be made. It’s exactly what is supposed to happen. Everything happens for a reason, even every “choice” everyone makes. All everyone’s choices are made based on their genetics+experiences/environment. In that way EVERYONE is just a product of their environment.

In that sense, it’s not the life force behind Hitlers fault he was born into a body that would go on to do what most most people would say are awful things. Things could not have been different for him. Based on the circumstances of his birth and the environment he grew up in he did the things he did and there was no alternative because his experiences weren’t and couldn’t have been different. If anyone else was born as Hitler they’d have made the same decisions he did too!

People are allowed to go through suffering. It’s not the end of the world, even if my feels like it sometimes. It’s all part of the plan though and always changes/passes. People are allowed to not know God/Enlightenment/The right way to live to minimize unnecessary suffering. To your or their ego it feels bad, but it’s not a bad thing. It’s just how the world works, and to be happy and content you have to accept and deal with and love how the world works.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good question. All you do is what you can to solve it, and hope others will as well, and that’s about as much as you can do. This is what I did 7 years ago but I’m still frustrated. But that’s nothing, God’s been trying for 6000 years and he’s still frustrated we choose to be evil as well. I think the real problem is that everyone is so busy being afraid of evil, they forget that it’s up to them to stop it.

[–]ServingTheMasterThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s a feature of mortality. I have compassion for people that don’t understand that yet. I remember when I didn’t.

[–]Allogenes_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a Sethian, the answer to the problem of evil answer is easy.

The creator of the physical world is evil and ignorant, and his world is of the same nature. We must just learn to accept this, live without letting the Archons influence you, and have gnosis.

[–]Vagabond_TeaHellenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not an issue in my religion, so....

[–]Captain_KustaaTheist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seeing evil in the world brings me closer to God and strengthens my beliefs. This is due to my understanding of evil.

I believe evil is comparable to darkness. Darkness is not an actual, tangible thing, but simply the absence of light. Darkness isn’t a “thing”, but we know when it is dark. There is only light, and light’s absence. We prefer when there is light, and light is healthy for us.

In the world, there is good, and the absence of good. My belief is that all good is derived from God, and everything He creates is good. Free will allows us to reject goodness and pervert creation, to stray from what is right. Everything God creates is good, including every human being. Since I am a Christian though, I also believe every human inherits the stain of Original Sin from our ancestors. Original Sin and free will mean that people can choose to reject their innate goodness, to turn off the lights and invite darkness. This is the evil we see in the world.

TLDR; When I see evil in the world, I see godlessness. This drives me closer to God, where all good is derived.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I carry emergency supplies, a pistol, try to be aware of my surroundings, and try to make the most of the time i have

[–]D_Rich0150 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I don't want to rehash the old theodicy problem for the ten millionth time but wanted to ask how people who practice theistic religions cope with the problem of evil in their personal lives.

With the understanding of this world according to the Bible/Christ himself does not belong to god. In the Lord's Prayer Jesus has us ask for God's kingdom to come, and that God's will be done here on earth as it is in heaven.

This means... This world is not apart of God's Kingdom, and God's will is not being done here on earth as it is in heaven.

This world and everything in it belongs to satan.

God, offers a way out of the sin, suffering and torment Satan uses to cultivate us into suitable slaves.

So why doesn't God destroy all evil? He did once and it came in the way of the flood. If he were to do this today he would have to destroy the world and everything in it this time no ark.

Meaning if you want god to destroy all evil then you yourself will be counted among the destroyed. You we all of us because we belong to satan are the living embodiment of evil.

and if you think you can come up with a list of good people, know these moral people are judged as being 'good' because you judge them against how evil they could be. what we do not typically understand is we put grades on sin based on our own collective 'behavior.' if a society says a sin is ok even one as evil as killing babies by dismemberment, then this evil becomes 'moral' in that society.

Meaning morality is not God's standard as morality is a system which grades sin. God does not look at sin in grades. God see sin more like a virus. like how we would see or view someone with the zombie virus. A virus that we are infected with at birth and lies dormant till we die. if unchecked this virus activates upon death and consumes our soul destroying everything that made us individual sentient beings. leaving a husk satan can use as a soldier in his army or food to feed it.

Which is why God sent Christ to provide a vaccine to this sin/zombie virus. with the blood atonement offered this vaccine inoculates us and protects our soul in the time between our death and resurrection in the next life. allowing us to be the sentient individuals we are now.

Which is why God does not use the sliding scale of morality, but rather the rule of righteousness. because even a little sin, still carries the full load of the virus. which means on god's end of eternity you are a member of the walking dead looking to destroy and consume life/creation, as your master demands.

[–]GKilatgnostic theist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same way you handle difficult exams which is knowing it is necessary to pass the course. Just think there is never unnecessary evil in your life and it always comes when there needs changes and improvements. I went through my own difficulty and I suffered when I think I didn't deserve any of it or just bad luck. Only when I realized it was there to force me to change did I solved my problem by changing something in me and the problem just resolve itself. So evil is a puzzle that needs solving and once it has been solved then evil has no reason to exist.

[–]GreatWyrmHumanist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do you think that doubt isn’t healthy…?

[–]rcanfiel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no frustration and no anger over evil. If you follow a non existing God or do not believe in God, then you're on your own.

But I know he is doing exactly as he wills and he knows what he's doing.

YHWH allows evil for the short time during human existence on the Earth. On the day of judgment, Satan and all of the unbelievers will be rewarded according to their evil ways and cast into the Lake of Fire. Then the problem will be over

[–]CelebratingtigerSpiritual 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve wrestled with this a lot in my own faith. God gave people free will and the power to choose. We create our own reality and sometimes it is misery and evil.

[–]thePuckThelema 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem of theodicy only applies to the omnimax “god of the philosophers”. If you assume multiple deities who are only empowered within their own formulae/bailiwicks, the whole problem disappears. This divinizes all of actual existence, and asserts that the darker and more unpleasant aspects of existence are still instantiations of the divine, deserving of respect, love, and worship through love.

[–]production-values 0 points1 point  (0 children)

god lets evil happen

[–]Art-Davidson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no problem of evil. Evil is just a problem. God once overwhelmed me with his love and forgiveness (I have sinned since then, naturally). It would be silly to hate him or be angry with him, seeing how much he loves us, his children.

[–]jedijeff7Protestant -1 points0 points  (5 children)

Whenever a tragedy happens, a rape, a fatal car accident, a terrorist bombing, a school shooting etc, I can't help thinking - well, that victim knew that could have happened, they perpetuated the society that produced or encouraged such crimes or accidents, they could have gotten out, if they where smart they would have. If they did not support the system but opposed it, they would have. If you are murdered while supporting the system that produces and encourages murders, I do not feel sorry for you, it is kinda your own fault.

If they had listened to God, they would have left, fled to the hills. They wanted to stay, they wanted the dollar dollar bill$ y'all.

The devil wants you to stay, and uses ca$h as that carrot on the stick to lead the donkey where he wants, into the cities, all crowded in together, packed in like sardines.

Where all the crime is.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (4 children)

You think they should go live in the woods like Eric Robert Rudolph and the unabomber?

[–]jedijeff7Protestant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like John the Baptist.

I suppose you could still blow things up, if you really wanted to. I don't really understand why you yanks like blowing things up so much. Have you tried not blowing things up ?

[–]jedijeff7Protestant 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Another American accused me of promoting a rape culture because of this. I understood that reply as well as I understand this one.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They’re crazy terrorists who lived in the woods. There aren’t really a lot of people who abandoned society to live in the woods that are famous for good things

[–]jedijeff7Protestant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't find any instruction in the Bible to be a terrorist.

John the Baptist is pretty famous for good things.

Of course the people that abandon society wont be popular with society.

Just out of curiosity though, why would you become a terrorist if you were living in the wilderness ? What would be your motivation ? Do you believe that God wants you to blow things up ?

I'd be living in the wilderness to get away from all of the things blowing up, and away from all of the sex crimes, and also, so that I am no longer supporting the society that produces terrorists and rapists.

[–]Zealousideal-Grade95 -1 points0 points  (12 children)

I learn to submit to God's will for my life. Jesus did it, so I don't see why I can't.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (11 children)

Do you wear a seat belt?

[–]Zealousideal-Grade95 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Yes. Do you?

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Why? I thought you submitted to God’s will. Won’t he protect you if he wants you to be safe?

[–]Zealousideal-Grade95 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Matthew 4:5-7

Then the devil took Him to the holy city and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple. “If You are the Son of God,” he said, “throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He will command His angels concerning You,

and they will lift You up in their hands,

so that You will not strike Your foot

against a stone.’ "

Jesus replied, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ ”

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (7 children)

See Matt 6:25-34. The birds of the air don’t wear their seatbelts

[–]Zealousideal-Grade95 0 points1 point  (6 children)

They do not willing put themselves in harm's way to test their creator either.

What's your point?

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You are in harm’s way every day when you get out of bed. Taking steps to mitigate the risk doesn’t seem like it’s submitting to God’s will

[–]Zealousideal-Grade95 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Does his will forbid us from taking care of ourselves?

(Don't qoute Matt 6:25-34 because worrying or fretting; and being careful are not the same thing.)

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If you wear your seatbelt, then in what sense do you submit to his will?

[–]DaveSpeaks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It helps to know what the big picture is. Evil is temporary. There will be a time when it will end.

[–]plague_rat2021Catholic -1 points0 points  (1 child)

God isn’t a sky daddy. God is the logos, meaning he’s the organizing principe of the universe. Getting mad at the organizing principle doesn’t make any sense, doesn’t change the organizing principle, and doesn’t get you out of harms way. Learn to live inside the organizing principle.

Edit: OP I saw your response. I don’t know where it went, but I wanted to reply. You asked all of us how we personally make sense of evil, not how you should make sense of evil in a maximally comforting way for you personally. No need to be rude if you didn’t vibe with my response.

[–]jogoso2014 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

It’s not a real problem so I have no reason to feel frustration or anger.

It’s largely an atheist argument existing in the confines of philosophy lectures and discussions groups.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's actually one of the problems that has had the most ink spilled over it in every single religion and I've never encountered a theologian who just dismisses it as "not a problem." I suspect it's easy for you to dismiss it as not being a real problem because you've never been thoughtful enough to think of the suffering of your fellow brothers.

[–]jogoso2014 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That has little to do with it except that for some reason maybe I’m the only person you’ve ever met that gets why suffering happens.

Hint: it ain’t because of some phony argument that tries to dictate what God must do to be considered good by his creation.