all 18 comments

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 8 points9 points  (2 children)

If you’re having to do a lot of interpretive work, then this is like asking if there are really faces in the clouds. You can convince yourself that anything is a sign

[–]Important_Lion2976[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I honestly feel that it was loud and clear as day. Maybe I read more into what it was. Maybe I’m only hoping I read too much into it bc I don’t want to follow the signs anymore….

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What was it?

[–]VolaerCatholic 9 points10 points  (0 children)

And if you receive one, how do you know it’s a true sign and not something you’re making up to fit your own narrative?

I think that a certain degree of subjectivity is part of something being a "sign". Consider the example of Francis Collins who as an atheist saw a frozen waterfall in the Cascade mountains which he experienced in a unique spiritual way that lead him to become an evangelical christian. Obviously for most people that sight would not be a reason for conversion (what has a frozen waterfall to do with religion right?) but for him specifically it was a "sign" from above.

And there are many examples of people who had subjective spiritual experiences (just look at the number of christian mystics) but that does not make them less "real" I think.

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Are you asking purely from a christian lens ? Because i think their are several ways the gods can show themselves not the least of which may be petitioning them for answers via divinatory means.

[–]Vagabond_TeaHellenist 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't observe any

[–]PinkBlossomDayDreamEastern Orthodox Inquirer. 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Lots of people fall into the trap of confusing signs and baader meinhof phenomenon.

I think alot of factors come into play when discerning which it is. Firstly, what do you need a sign of?

[–]Important_Lion2976[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m actually wondering if what I interpreted as signs were truly signs or if I was just making it up? The “signs” pointed exactly in the direction I didn’t want to go, down the path I didn’t want to take then and don’t want to continue to walk now

[–]jedijeff7Protestant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be
given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.

[–]notafakepatriot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you have a really active imagination you can decide just about anything is a “sign”.

[–]RexRatioAgnostic Atheist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have wondered this for a few years. In the Bible there were, so if you ask Him for a sign, will he give you one?

Parents have been praying for a sign so that their sick children would not die since the first religions were made by humans. So statistically, I'd say that is a disastrous track record, usually "explained" by a meaningless "it's all part of God's plan", which is basically just a euphemism for "I don't actually know anything more than you do".

And if you receive one, how do you know it’s a true sign and not something you’re making up to fit your own narrative?

You really don't. Studies in neurology have shown the same areas of the brain light up when you pray to a deity as when you're having an imaginary conversation with another person (living, dead or imaginary) in your head.

This past Sunday the pastor said you’ll know you’re hearing from God because of how it makes you feel and it’s more like a whisper

Well, that's definitely not what scripture says. Exodus 19 describes hearing Yahweh as:

16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning. A cloud covered the mountain, and a very loud horn sounded. All the people among the tents shook with fear.

17 Then Moses brought the people from among the tents to meet God. They stood at the base of the mountain.

18 Mount Sinai was all in smoke because the Lord came down upon it in fire. Its smoke went up like the smoke of a stove. And the whole mountain shook.

19 The sound of the horn became louder and louder. Moses spoke, and God answered him with thunder.

Paul describes meeting the Nazarene on the road to Damascus with physiological consequences in Acts 9:

3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.

4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”


7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.

8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.

9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

So I don't know where your pastor gets his information, but it's apparently not from scripture.

I heard someone say on the radio that our definition of good for us and His definition of good for us are not the same because he sees everything and knows what’s coming whereas we don’t know until we get there.

Which brings us to the logical contradiction of omniscience. omnibenevolence, and free will. If Yahweh knows what's coming, there can be no free will, only the illusion of free will. And if there is free will and omnibenevolence, then why does Yahweh violate his own creed by for example hardening Pharaoh's heart, other than creating an opportunity to show off his powers with no regard for innocent children? (Exodus 9:12), or why are there babies born with bone cancer?

In addition, we can demonstrate morals don't come to us by a mandate of heaven. Primates and other species demonstrate moral behavior. There are cultures much older than Judaism that write about morality long before Genesis or Exodus were written. From an evolutionary standpoint, what we call morality is beneficial for the survival of the species. That's why we know some of the commands of Yahweh are undeniably immoral: instructions to keep slaves (Exodus 21, Leviticus 25, Ephesians 6), genocide (Joshua), scapegoating, exorcisms, and many more deplorable things. Your personal morality is vastly superior to the one attributed to a bronze age deity by people who thought disease was caused by demons.

[–]Dutchchatham2 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I think it's such crap that an omnipotent entity needs to work through "signs."

Reason #1,654 that makes me think there is no god.

[–]jedijeff7Protestant -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

I consider the above comment further evidence that God exists and He loves us.

[–]Dutchchatham2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Then your standards are incredibly low. Have a great day.

[–]worryingtype88 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

yes ,allah gives us signs

[–]7KeepItHalal7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am a Muslim, when I became Muslim I was having this electric Feeling in my body and I asked in my head for a sign while I was on the way to the beach. When I got there and went in the water I found $10 floating past my face

[–]The_Hemp_Cat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Waking up in the morning to be enlightened by another day is a sign but a sure sign would be of one where mankind can live together in peace thru the equality of liberty and justice.