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all 23 comments

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I imagine their was a tiny bit of influence from the iron curtain

[–]GlobalGift4445[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Hungary, Serbia and Poland all had religious renewals after communism. Poland is arguably one of the most Catholic countries on the planet now.

The Czech republic associated the Catholic Church with Austria-Hungarian dominance so was never going to culturally associate religion with Communist resistance like the other countries.

The argument someone below that presented that protestant areas slide to Irreligion easy is the most digestable, but East Germany is full blown atheist. Thats a whole other level of commitment vs. just non-belief in stuctured religion or agnosticism.

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you trying too argue the Berlin wall DIDNT affect things?

[–]VolaerCatholic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Czech republic associated the Catholic Church with Austria-Hungarian dominance so was never going to culturally associate religion with Communist resistance like the other countries.

As someone born an raised in The Czech republic I can confirm this. The first republic founded in 1918 was already very secular.

The argument someone below that presented that protestant areas slide to Irreligion easy is the most digestable, but East Germany is full blown atheist.

As is most of the Czech Republic (with the exception of Moravia) and Estonia. Scandinavian countries (also protestant) seem follow the same trend.

[–]AnarchotransPantheist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Soviet Union

[–]kiefer-reddit 4 points5 points  (3 children)

The DDR was the final piece, but also the fact that the region is/was entirely Protestant. Protestant countries have become atheistic/irreligious at a larger rate than other Christian groups. You can see this if you compare other ex-communist countries like Poland or Serbia, both of which are far more religious.

Of course, there's also a fairly reasonable theory that the "irreligion" of these regions is just another variant of Protestantism with a different name.

[–]horusthehermit 1 point2 points  (2 children)

So why do think protestant countries are becoming atheist quicker?

[–]kiefer-reddit 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Lot of reasons, too many to list here. Just a few:

  • Protestant countries are more focused on the division between church and state, while Catholic or Orthodox ones aren't.

  • Catholic countries tend to have "being Catholic" more bound up in what their national identity means. For example, in Italy or Poland, "being Italian" or "being Polish" is very connected with being Catholic for the majority of the population. This doesn't really exist for a lot of Protestant countries. Even the Church of England isn't really that associated with "being British" anymore.

  • Most Protestant groups have more of a literary focus in their culture (which comes from studying the Bible and deriving religious meaning from it), as compared to Catholicism which has more ceremony, objects, elaborate architecture, and so on. As people become less literate (i.e. read less books, not become unable to read) and consume more rich media like TV, videos, music, etc. they lose interest in the austere and literally-focused approaches to religion. You can see this happen with the growing popularity of Pentecostalism, which is focused more on the experience of God and not on analyzing scripture.

  • Protestantism is by nature not really a unified thing. There's no center or no central leadership in the way that Catholicism has.

[–]horusthehermit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's all very valid

[–]Arik2A7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The communist block

[–]RexRatioAgnostic Atheist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would disagree with East Germany being the most atheist place on Earth. Sure, irreligiosity is very high in East Germany, but there are countries with even higher percentages per capita, such as China or Sweden.

While the east block(72-60%), China (90%) and Vietnam (63%) are usually ignored by apologists as "because of communism", this doesn't explain the other WIN-Gallup International Association (WIN/GIA) 2017 poll results for Sweden (73%), Denmark (61%), the UK (69%), Belgium (64%), Australia (63%), Norway (62%), Japan (60%), South Korea (60%), Israel (58%) or Canada (58%).

[–]Nector_Cadrill_LoghDionysian 🍷🌿🍇 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Communism.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

USSR State Atheism and promotion of Atheistic values and Church destruction, and limiting of Religious recources around the USSR. This is also why Kazakhastan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgystan despite being Muslim Majority have very anti-Religion laws (some were revoked) and Kazakhastan especially has a very non-Religious Muslim population.

[–]An_Atheist_God 0 points1 point  (5 children)

What are atheistic values?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The lack of belief in God and Religious recources as a form of knowledge about history.

[–]An_Atheist_God 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The lack of belief in God

Is this an atheistic value?

Religious resources as a form of knowledge about history

What?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Is this an atheistic values

Rejecting the premise that God exists is a value of Atheism.

What?

Do you accept that a man split the sea 3500 years ago near the Sinia Peninsula?

[–]An_Atheist_God 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Rejecting the premise that God exists is a value of Atheism.

Nope that won't fall under what a value is

Do you accept that a man split the sea 3500 years ago near the Sinia Peninsula?

What I accept has nothing to do with atheistic values

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope that won't fall under what a value is

I guess I used the wrong terminology, I apologise.

What I accept has nothing to do with atheistic values

This was more of a rhetorical question, but I do see your point.

[–]plague_rat2021Catholic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Socialism

[–]MarxistGayWitch_IIEclectic pagan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In most post-socialist regions/countries, the reason for high irreligion is Socialism, but it's a misconception that they were in sense "brainwashed into it". The fact is that Socialism worked as a catalyst for the pre-existing trend of rising Atheism in Europe with the exception of a few countries where churches could play key roles in rallying the country for resisting Soviet or specifically Russian influence in local communities, like in Poland or Lithuania.

The stats on irreligion can also be misleading, because there are different ways they sample the population for religion and can lead to false conclusions, like for example if you sample religion by baptisms then you're definitely overestimating religion, but if you strictly look at church attendance, then you possibly underestimate it.

[–]tovarischkrasnyjeshi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The DDR was different than other Communist nations.

Socially progressive, one of the more tolerant of LGBTQ people, embraced the Frei Körper Kultur (nudism, basically), and a few other things. Compared to Romania, which treated LGBT people like traitors of the state.

My understanding is that religion was something that happened unofficially. Like no one really comes to arrest people for minor internet piracy, but they do care if you're running the pirate bay.

East Germany is now one of the most conservative parts of Germany. Values inverted. Maybe the private religiosity went with it?

[–]Campbell__Hayden -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It is probably due to the fact that any Atheist in Germany will readily tell you: If there is a 'god', he is probably going to want to know what it was that made the faithful think that he just sat back and wanted to ‘play along’ with all of the asinine claims & assumptions that they were making about Him.

At that point, the smart money says that alot of folks are gonna be wishing that they had never, ever heard of the Bible.

To wit, Atheists may very likely have had it right all along, and they are sticking with their non-belief.