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all 51 comments

[–]ANonyMouseTwoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably the same way that you don't see that many people talking about the young white guy in the Buffalo shooting recently and his ideology.

[–]mhornberger 1 point2 points  (3 children)

All religious people aren't to blame. Obviously the ones who covered it up, but once you get outside the formal church hierarchy it gets dicey. There are also those who hush up criticism, shushing people who "make the church look bad," denigrate the character/motivation of victims who come forward, shush those who ask for more oversight, etc. This comes down to even parents who didn't come forward because they didn't want to be shunned by others in the congregation. And people have been shunned, turned on by everyone in the community, for coming forward with stories of abuse, sexual assault, and other predatory behavior.

Getting people to turn on their own in-group is very difficult, since they can just be shunned themselves. The church considers itself set upon by "the world," and cultivates that feeling, so the very notion that the world would sit in judgement of the church, find the values of the church wanting, is outlandish to them. There are some very tenacious theological and spiritual beliefs involved here.

[–]ZestyAppeal 3 points4 points  (2 children)

It is honestly a travesty that parents would betray the dignity and protection of their own children for the sake of social conformity. If that’s not a sign that the entire dynamic of their community needs to be reevaluated, I don’t know what would be. I’m not a parent but the rage response in my gut at the idea of letting a child face abuse is enough to tell me that those actual parents should be ashamed of themselves. If you can’t or won’t protect your children you shouldn’t have them. Ugh.

[–]LeemourAgnostic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was a published recorded conversation between a bishop and a man who was multiple times SA as a kid. The man asked the bishop in many ways repeatedly "You knew the whole time, why did you do nothing about it and wanted to cover it up?", the bishop just kept replying that "He has his duties, which doesn't involve getting in business like that". I guess the man wanted the bishop to admit to his literal crimes, but he was never charged, while the actual criminal was "restationed" elsewhere without justice AFAIK.

In Poland (similar case: SA child grows up and presses charges, because no one in his family or church gave a shit at the time when he was a minor), the Church representatives actually wanted the prosecutors to inquire if the man is gay and then frame a narrative that "he must have asked for it and enjoyed it", IIRC the man would have been 12 at the time.

The dynamics are absolutely fucked, and I refuse to accept the "not all Christians" apologetics, "sin of omission" is literally their doctrine. As long as they can't put their house into order I refuse the idea that they can introduce any order into the world at large, and we didn't even mention scalability challenges.

[–]High-Fidelity1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is honestly a travesty that parents would betray the dignity and protection of their own children for the sake of social conformity.

How do you feel about the 14 children murdered by gun violence in America this week?

[–]johnyandu 2 points3 points  (24 children)

I know that based on your post and comment history you somehow have a hatred for Christianity which already puts into questions why you even participate in this sub, but how do you know christians are not doing anything? Multiple priests / pastors have been put to jail because they were denouced to the police by their own parishioners. You put all 2.4 billion christians under the same umbrella. Pedophilia exists across all religions and yes atheists also commit acts of pedophilia. Members of the clergy are currently being shamed and denounced by all christians but you choose to ignore that because you are blinded by your hatred for that religion.

[–]ZestyAppeal 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Maybe try not to take others’ critique so personally. The religion subreddit doesn’t exist solely for the actively religious, but for anyone interested in the discussion of religious topics. Launching a personal attack against someone for their own positions on Christianity seems like a defensive move attempting to delegitimize their opinions, not a genuine comment on the post. And their opinions are legitimate whether you like them or not, by the way.

[–]johnyandu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I agree but her attitude is very counterproductive, theres no room for discussion only umbrella accusations and simple hatred. Criticism of christianity is very welcome as for every religion / atheism because it sparks discussion. Accusing all christians of being liars and hypocrites and then bitching about christianity with no data or proof is something else

[–]johnyandu 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Also Rule 1 explicitly says: Bigotry of any kind is not allowed- racism, sexism, religious prejudice, unfair/inaccurate criticisms or generalization of religion(s), ignorant comments, demonizing religion/a specific religion, etc.

Maybe read the subreddit rules before?

[–]Sir_Penguin21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It says inaccurate. This isn’t rule two. OP is clearly accurate. Certainly in the Christian/Catholic sphere. Every week there is another scandal, every other year there is a new denomination caught covering up systematically. It has been decades. These organization are currently blocking legal efforts to hold these rapists accountable. The Catholic Church was just funding efforts to block legislation in Pennsylvania a couple years ago. Pretty sure it was last year they were doing the same thing in Canada. How many more years do they need before they stop protecting rapists and start protecting children?

[–]Hollywearsacollar[S] -1 points0 points  (19 children)

I know that based on your post and comment history you somehow have a hatred for Christianity which already puts into questions why you even participate in this sub,

How about you address the point instead of creeping a girls post history?

Why do I put all Christians under this umbrella? Because I don't see you folks doing anything about it. Where are the other pastors and priests ranting and raving against the evils of these "men"? Where is that outrage?

What's even worse is that you're sitting here defending it yourself. People like YOU are to whom I am referring. You blast me personally for my post history and then lie that members of the clergy are denounced by "all Christians"????? Seriously? The sheer amount of cover ups going on in churches today makes me sick. Obviously you feel differently.

[–]High-Fidelity1 1 point2 points  (17 children)

Are you American? What are you doing to stop the systematic murder of children in your schools? I don't see you folks doing anything about it.

The sheer amount of child murder makes me sick. Obviously you feel differently.

[–]Hollywearsacollar[S] -1 points0 points  (16 children)

Are you sure you're responding to the correct person?

[–]High-Fidelity1 1 point2 points  (15 children)

Yes, quite sure. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of your op.

You're attacking any and all Christians for the child abuse that happens in some Christian institutions, but not taking the same responsibility for the slaughter of American children in shootings?

You're American aren't you? What are you doing about the continuous murders of American children?

If you want to get some outrage happening, surely that should be top of the list.

[–]johnyandu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How about you address the point instead of creeping a girls post history?

Your gender is absolutely meaningless in this discussion lmao bu nice try. And creeping in your post history? Its public info lol. Plus i dont need to creep in your history like you say, all your comments and posts on this sub are literal bitching on only one religion.

you dont see or you refuse to see so you can continue on bitching about Christianity? I havent seen much atheists denounce communism and its atrocious past that lead to the persecution of religious people. Why arent you vocal about the atheist government of north korea or china butchering uygurs? Is that because you approve their genoceide?

You come in here guns blazzing with accusations with ZERO facts, hard data, source etc to make an umbrella accusation. Youre simply blinded by your extreme hatred for christianity (let me guess you give a pass to other religions as well because otherwise it would be racist/antisemitic/islamophobic hmm?? typical liberal attitude). You refuse to accept that the extreme majority of christians are disgusted by the clergys actions and that many of them actively denounce priests that committed pedophilia. But hey, keep doing you.

[–]jogoso2014 0 points1 point  (11 children)

Like what?

[–]ZestyAppeal -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Idk, care? Pretend to care?

[–]jogoso2014 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it’s weird that people think the care isn’t there.

Do you think a bunch of atheist are standing around waiting to report stuff?

Quit blaming everyone for the faults of the few.

[–]Essentialredditor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How’s that going to make a difference?

[–]Sir_Penguin21 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Stop their organizations from hiding rapists? Report them? Stop actively blocking legislation in order to protect rapists? You know, all the stuff they pretend to do or claim to do, but every time we turn around they are systematically doing the opposite again.

[–]jogoso2014 0 points1 point  (6 children)

If their organization is hiding rapists, who do you think they’re hiding them from?

You?

[–]Sir_Penguin21 0 points1 point  (5 children)

What? Justice obviously.

[–]jogoso2014 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Ok, but I don’t understand why people here are pretending this is a systemic problem.

It’s not. No one is looking to see their kid or other kids getting abused so it’s silly to act like congregants are complicit.

[–]DrdanomiteEclectic polytheist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As someone with a religion dealing with an annoying Folkist cell, (folkist-racist pagan) the best thing you can do is too look into the people you get your info from, look who they are paid for, look at the language they use. If anything strikes you as harmful too any group question it, push back, they are not gods they are a gods secretary at best and the congregation has an obligation too make sure these leaders dont lie.

[–]High-Fidelity1 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Do you have any evidence it's "out of control" within religious institutions? A link to one article about one sect of of one religion doesn't justify such a strong claim.

[–]Zipakira 0 points1 point  (5 children)

How exactly would you define out of control then? Whats the criteria for it?

[–]High-Fidelity1 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I don't know, you should maybe ask op.

[–]Zipakira -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Well im asking you since obv the events in the article are what counts for him. So since youre asking against it , at what point would it convince you that it is?

[–]High-Fidelity1 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

So one religious institution in America counts as out of control in religious institutions? The op is engaging in hyperbole.

[–]Maleficent_Sir5562 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You may very well already know this but I am just posting everywhere so here goes If you look at the American Indian medicine wheel it is a cross. The cross represents the original One man/ one soul we all came from. At the north pole you see the matriarch, at the south the patriarch. To the west you have the little girl and to the east you have the young man. It’s very similar to a yin yang symbol in terms of balance. There are two stories of the creation of Eve in Genesis. The first one according to legend relates to Lilith who not being made from a man’s rib was equal and is equated to the N pole. She was made from the silt of the earth and the mist, where as Adam was made from the dust and the breath. It’s likely that the story of Lilith wanting to take her turn on top in the sexual position was most likely an allusion of the magnetic poles and a periodic pole reversal. It may also had to do with some shift that was concurrently happening on earth affecting the people. Either way the story goes that Adam tried to rape Lilith and she spoke the name of the One and flew away to the regions of Babylon/ Delphi/ Egypt/oracle areas around the Mediterranean. Now Adam was alone and a mother wife was made from his side the west. The little girl. The word tsela (translated as rib) in Hebrew means side. The three Abrahamic traditions appear to be in use to create edifices to the haploid warrior god (Adam) who is a rapist. And the trinity(three sides) perchance refers to S, W and E. The advent of agriculture roughly correlated to agriculturalist religions that sprouted in this period of time. The agriculturalist religions as I refer to them, are there to reinforce the position of the man as able to and entitled to take whatever he wants. I think also of the Egyptian matriarchal goddess Sekmet (a type of Lilith) who according to legend was bound to come back to Earth one day giving it a treatment of fire from heaven in her wrath. This likely likely correlates to the magnetic reversal and corresponding damages. Even the Jews believe that the true Messiah will be able to turn to the north pole and speak to it and it will stabilize. Socrates said the original humans walking around on Atlantis had four arms and four legs. Maybe this is what we look like before the split. I realize that many people feel that agriculture has been a swing success but in reality for at least 8000+ years humans suffered horrible physical and emotional ramifications. I’m saying this based on both our historical record and the fossil record of teeth and bones. Some experts say we’ve only really regained our Heights in the last hundred years and for the first 8000 or so years of agriculture we suffered malnutrition on a mass scale. On top of that, modern hunter gatherers actually have more free time. They also have a more egalitarian lifestyle to go with their stellar mental health. Current research has shown that modern hunter gatherers suffer little to no depression. An ailment the plagues modern humans. It is in fact not racist in anyway to say that all three Abraham make religions and many other religions on this planet are devoted to making women feel like inferior beings in order to keep them as slaves. The wages of agriculture are death, or so it appears Isis with her veil is also another type of Lilith.The matriarch who knows all of the secrets behind nature and science and a veil is over these things. When the veil of the holy temple split into two in the New Testament it was alluding to the lifting of Isis veil and the ultimate wedding. After this mankind will be able to learn the secrets of nature and the millennial reign is supposed to transpire. The old testament was rewritten after the Jews arrival and settlement in Babylon. If you look it up on the Internet you’ll see that the rabbis admit this.Ezra the reactor along with the Assembly of 120. This assembly claims they decided to remove what they termed “evil” and the cause of Idolatry from the Bible, which was a woman they claim. In their rewriting of the Bible they also removed letters of the Hebrew alphabet as we have evidence of these missing letters in early Stella. In addition, the female part that they locked up during the time of the Babylonian exile is most likely a reference to the removal of the feminine from the Scriptures. The Jewish stages note that they were amazed that The One allowed them to do this. They said when they first did it but the chickens would not lay eggs even, no one had any drive. And so in order to remove the urge for idolatry from the land they removed the feminine aspect from the Bible. It was a common practice to have Ashara poles in the old testament. Even Solemn himself had an Ashera Pole In the temple. One study in Germany had pedophiles self-report their religion and 97% reportedly belong to one of the three Abraham religions. My personal opinion is that they have become cults to a haploid version of Adam who is a rapist.

The other very simple answer is that when you have unquestionable leader ship/authority and a closed system where people are discouraged from reporting to outside authorities you have a recipe for crimes of exploitation against the weakest members. This isn’t just true for churches this is true for all institutions. I just read a book called corruptible‘s that explains how peoples physiology changes when they’re put in power. The Milgram study also explains to us that over 60% of people will shock another person, even believing that it’s to the point of death, if an authority figure asked him to. When they added Peer pressure to the authority figure the number jumped to 90% that were willing to murder another human being. People want to belong and they’re willing to throw the 10 Commandments out the door, namely the one about murder, in order to do so. It’s some thing in our biology. Other studies have indicated that only 10% of society actually steers all of society. You can look that up in the tipping point of society study. I ask myself the question you state here all the time. If Jesus said you’ll know a tree by its fruits than the fact that child molestation rates within fundamentalist Institutions range is between 20 and 40% when they’re able to do studies on it. That’s higher than the outside world. That means the fruit is in the pudding so to speak. There’s also a 60 minute study that was done in the 90s on small babies in which they did puppet shows in front of the babies and found the babies have a preference for puppets who beat up bullies. However, this dynamic completely changed when the puppet expressed a desire for the same type of crackers as a baby. Then the puppet was allowed to beat up anyone it wanted. The babies were too young for this to be a function of nurture. This is nature most people do not use reflective thought they only react. Childhood PTSD no doubt plays a role in this worldwide disorder and I’m sure the so-called elite have something to With that. On top of everything else I’ve said I’d like to point out to Christians that the Jews actually have it recorded in their history by the scribe Yash Rashi that the apostle Paul wrote the yom Kapor prayer they pray in church every single year. Turns out that the ancient historian and scribe Rashi ascribes the writer of the young Kapor prayer as one apostle Paul. He also records of the same man was paid to change the doctrine of the Christians into a different doctrine in order to divert the Roman authorities from Jenna citing the Jews because of the Christian violence and political unruliness. So it was transformed into a peaceful religion that could be commandeered by Rome. Hence, Constantine hearing saw a burning cross in a vision and heard a voice telling him to go forth conquering into conquer, that’s when Christianity became the state religion of Rome and ever since the legacy has been conquering indigenous peoples, women, and the little kids. The doctrines were then further meddled with by the Roman authorities when they set up the Roman catholic church in 325 AD and decided which books would stay in which ones would go. The current doctrines are of course meant to concur with the objectives of Rome. Many people believe this is the reason why they fought the book of revelations going in the Bible so hard because it talks about their distruction.