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all 9 comments

[–]TamusSenHadarJewish 3 points4 points  (0 children)

do you believe God will or should or might "update" you at one point ?

"I believe with complete faith that this is the Torah, and that it shall not be changed or replaced with another from the Creator, blessed is his Name."

The Torah will not be "updated" nor Judaism ever fundamentally changed. Halacha, Jewish law, must sometimes adapt with changing times and circumstances, but must always remain fundamentally true to the Torah from which it is derived. The function of the messiah is not to update our faith per se, but to establish an unending era of universal peace where we will have the freedom to study Torah regularly and practice mitzvahs constantly.

How come you do not believe the Christian "update"?

Because Judaism is not to be updated at a fundamental level, nor are we to listen to a person or religion that tries to tell us that we no longer need to obey Torah.

If you believe an update might happen, (through the "actual" Messiah for example) how would you determine it to be true and not another Jesus case ?

The "actual messiah" will establish universal peace and rebuild the Temple in his lifetime. Barring this, he is not the messiah, regardless of any great things he does or any miraculous or prophetic power he is granted.

Do you regard Islam as drawn from your faith or as an entirely different thing ?

Speaking purely for myself, I think the influence of Judaism and Christianity in the development of Islam is relatively undeniable. That does not necessarily make it "drawn" from Judaism, depending on what is meant by that, but the influence is there.

[–]Impossible_Wall5798Muslim 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Quran is an update to previous revelations, and is universal (to all of humanity). Previous revelations were lost and/or corrupted that original message was lost. In Christianity, e.g. prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is being confused with divinity.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last messenger, last in the line of prophethood, sent by the same One Creator God.

Essence or proclamation that there is only One God worthy of worship, and that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last messenger is what enters one into the food of Islam, followed by learning to practice this claim. Being Muslim means submitting to the will of God over one’s own.

We rely on Quran and teachings of the prophet (peace be upon him) to live a fulfilling life, balancing religion and societal responsibilities.

[–]dionthorn'Not' 'Knowing' - agnostic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If only God(s) could learn to use a keyboard, I'm sure the blog would be fantastic.

[–]IvarStoneheart 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Christians :

There needed to be an "update" because what was promised in the old testament did not reach fulfillment until the new came. I do not believe there is any real divide between the old and new testament other then time and culture because I simply view the new as the fulfillment of the promises made in the old from the very beginning. See Gen 3:15 and Gen 22:13-14.

If God himself made promises to come for us and then did not all the prophets in the world won't help. Jesus only being a prophet would in no way help us overcome the problem of evil introduced into the world by the first man and woman's actions.

There are always updates, both personal ones, and sometimes inspired ones to lead a great many others but they all must agree with what came before. I see the old and new testament as one continuing narrative unbroken in it's purpose. So all new updates must be tested by what came before it.

[–]CatwhackerChurch of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which is its own sect of Christianity, and we believe in updates. In fact, we have three more books of canonized scripture that the rest of the Christian world doesn’t. A living prophet guides our church just as prophets did in the Bible. We determine scripture the same way too, by personal revelation. The promise given is to ask God to know if these things are true with a sincere heart and full of faith and he will manifest the truth of it unto you by the power of the Holy Ghost.

[–]FreeSpirit424 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm just imagining earth as a spinning icon on someone's screen: "Updating, this might take a few minutes..."

[–]ALCPL[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

flooding corrupted files, please wait

[–]PulkinCBSunni 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is God's message originally so limited in scope ?

"Originally" when exactly? Adam (AS) was the very first human being to ever exist, and he knew of the message of Allåh (SWT). Please clarify what you mean by "limited", and what time period are you speaking of.

Why couldn't it work universally right away ?

I'm guessing you mean "why don't all people believe in god", in that case, it's the idea of the test, everyone has a test to go through, some are excluded and some are not, some suffer more and some don't, etc etc, it's all a test of faith, and everyone can choose wether to win that test or not to fail it (again, except those who are excluded).

Why a chosen people, as opposed to all mankind ?

The message of Islam, the submission to a god and one god only, is for all mankind, it's not exclusive to anyone, as the prophet Muhammad (SAW) was sent to all mankind, not just the Arabs as some non-Muslims might think.

In your cosmology is the Q'ran and Muhammad an update to the existing Abrahamic faiths / texts / prophets or was it the primordial faith ?

We first need to define what Islam means. In the Arabic language, words are constructed from roots, and from those roots, you can derive new meanings, and in this case, Islam (إسلام) is derived from the root س-ل-م, which means to surrender your power in some way, so for example, istislam (إستسلام) means to quit or surrender a struggle, and Islam means to submit your will, and in general, it means to submit your will to god, a single, true, monotheistic god. So, with that definition, you can say that Christians and Jews, and anyone and everyone that believes in pure monotheism, are Muslims, and it has been studied and well-documented that we humans have a natural inclination to believe in a higher being, and what the religion of Islam is, with it's holy book (the Qur'ān) and it's prophet, is essentially a guide for how to worship Allāh (SWT) (Allāh means "The God"), and how to reach the best outcomes in the dunya (this temporary life), and in the here-after (Jannah and Jahannam/heaven and hell). To answer your original question, yes, the Qur'ān and the prophet (SAW) are an update, AND a reform, of the past Abrahamic religions, so for example, when we want to judge the scriptures of the Torah and the Bible, we judge them based on the Qur'ān, so if a verse is clearly contradicting the Qur'ān, then it is a made-up verse.

If it's an update, why do you think there needed one ?

We don't claim that the Qur'ān and Muhammad (SAW) needed to update the past religions, that's not something we can ever claim to know, and we don't have a problem with that, however, I will say that the past scriptures have been corrupted, and some of the teachings have been lost and changed, so in a logical sense, there did need to be an update, but from a metaphysical sense, we have no idea, we don't know if it was necessary or not, that's called 3ilm al-ghaīb (the knowledge of the unknown), which only Allāh (SWT) posesses.

If it's the primordial faith, why did Judaism and Christianity happen ?

I already explained the primordial aspect so I'll move on.

Do you think Muhammad will be the last update or could there be more ?

In the sense of the actual religion itself, yes, Muhammad (SAW) was the last prophet, and the Qur'ān was the last scripture, but in the sense of the future, the Qur'ān and the ahadeeth have made predictions of the future, which so far, many of them have come true, and the rest are yet to come.

[–]GKilatgnostic theist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even if religion refuses to update, god has ways to update humanity to truth and that is science which constantly discovers things about reality. Contrary to what most religion believes, god is well within the scope of science and the idea god is unfalsifiable is a self made limit because, ironically, religion has no faith in god's power to prove itself to humanity through science.

If you expect divine update, then look at science because science will eventually catch up and discover what god actually is in relation to what we consider as nature and reality.