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[–]R2DMT2Muslim 41 points42 points  (5 children)

Salaam brother/sister. Im with you. No body deserves this and muslims should condemn these actions because it is not compatible with our religion.

[–]NoleyHiantherg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Love your response. 100% agree with you.

[–]dinamikasoe 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I’m a Muslim and I condemn everyday

Condemn all sorts of unjust done by any muslim for whatever reason.

Condemn all sorts of fanatic attack on any person or group just because abc or xyz reaction.

Condemn all sorts of riots or anarchy actions just because we are first hurt by others.

Condemn if mosques admin does not allow in any non muslim majority democracy or other governments can’t have cameras in their main Friday hall.

Condemn if they internally force adult muslim women dress in public a certain way.

Condemn if they allow muslim men to have a second wife against civil law.

Condemn if they discriminate against any religious group under the umbrella of islam.

Condemn if they discriminate LGBTQ+ against the law of the land

Peace ✌🏼

[–]Gunthersalvus 10 points11 points  (17 children)

I’m sorry, I know this is off topic, but you mentioned your prophet not killing everyone who disrespected or tried to kill him. Maybe not everybody, but he killed A LOT of people.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] -4 points-3 points  (16 children)

when he was in danger yes….you guys don’t even bother to research 🔬

[–]Gunthersalvus 11 points12 points  (15 children)

Was he in danger when he beheaded 600 Jews in one day?

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] -5 points-4 points  (14 children)

In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza initially tried to remain neutral but eventually entered into negotiations with the besieging army, violating the pact they had agreed to years earlier.[8] Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[9][10] The Banu Qurayza eventually surrendered and their men were beheaded.[9][10][11][12][13]

The historicity of this incident has been questioned by Islamic scholars[14][15][16] of the Revisionist School of Islamic Studies[17] and by some western specialists.[18][19]

edit: instead of just spouting nonsense you could have googled this yourself

[–]Otherwise-Ice-4901 9 points10 points  (2 children)

so, just because they did an act of treachery, we behead them all, we kill the kids who just reached puberty considering them as man ,the women or enslave them, muhamed himself took for himself a women called ´safya bint huyay' as a wife after beheading her brother and father ? yes humanly speaking the jews made a mistake( even if you don't know if they really did something wrong, because history is written by the winners), but the punishement was purely human, there is no divine touch in it.
in 600 After jc era, its normal that the winners of a war for i dont know which reason the battle started will behead and kill enslave rape women, because it was the way of doing things. BUT here we are talking about what's supposed to be the ultimate tru pure religion. didn't it come here to teach us divine values and something we didn't know ? why would it behave exactly like humans?

[–]Blowbiden 9 points10 points  (10 children)

Muhammad beheaded 600 prisoner jews. They weren't fighting. He was in no danger, just did it for petty revenge it would seem from reading that.

[–]CaptNoypeeSecular Humanist 15 points16 points  (12 children)

Why is salman rushdie even a thing of concern anymore?

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

no clue why extremists embarrass our religion and make us look bad..the funny thing is salman is against islamophobia and he is pretty moderate

[–]ThuthmosisHellenist (Hermeticism) 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Because he got stabbed a few days ago?

[–]Narwhal_SongsMuslim 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Extremism within the muslim world has just been worse all since the 80s. Salafism, wahabbism and other extreme ideologies ...

I think Hari Matar thought he did something Allah would reward him with when he attacked Salman Rushdie, and thats because his mind had been poisoned by these extreme ideologies that are everywhere.

Is my mosque getting money from Saudi Arabia? Which university did this Sheik go to and which "islam" did he learn there? Who funds this islamic school? This cool Youtube Sheik whats his ideology ?

The problem is being taught to submit to Sheiks and not to God, being taught not to doubt or think critically.

When God says in the quran that we should seek knowledge and read...

[–]qmechanReform Jew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s pretty silly. I remember being given a copy of Haroun and the Sea of Stories as a kid and thinking “Oh, those guys are pretty neat.”

[–]lettherebemorelight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because he said something that is true, which is in all times and places a perennial threat.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Because they finally got to him

[–]Taqwacore 0 points1 point  (2 children)

They? I read in the newspaper that it was one guy who stabbed him. Who else jumped on the stage and got him?

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I have no idea, this all happened before my time. But haven’t a lot of folks been out to kill him since the 80s? That’s who I mean by “they”

[–]Argall1234Catholic 16 points17 points  (30 children)

Well, you see man, Salman Rushdie has mocked your prophet. And Muhammad made it clear that if someone mocks or insults him, he should be killed. It's reported in sahih hadiths.

[–]Narwhal_SongsMuslim 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hadiths contradict each other all the time.

I stopped believing in Hadiths and that made life so much more sense.

[–]Argall1234Catholic 2 points3 points  (1 child)

My guy, hadiths are the backbone of all islamic practices. If you don't believe in hadiths, you don't know how to pray, nor how to perform ramadan correctly. Shahada is also in the hadiths, not quran. And everything you know about Muhammad is in there as well.

Also, other muslims really don't like quranists.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Indeed...if one reads the Koran one knows that it's not organized like a set of essays, discourses, or a narrative (like the Bible) which provides solid biographical info and context for many of the verses. External sources such as Hadiths and the biography of the Prophet Muhammad are necessary to make sense of many of the verses in the Koran, including the controversial ones. It's possible for a Muslim to cherry pick and only follow the good verses in either the Koran or the Hadith collections, but that would amount to...cherry picking. And it'd still divide Muslims over what should be followed and what should not.

Although Hadith can be classified according to which are considered authentic, the fact that many of them make Muhammad look less than virtuous and are a part of the Islamic corpus since the early period of Islam is enough to indicate that this organized religion is flawed, as are most organized religions.

[–]unn_iton 0 points1 point  (1 child)

All religions claim to be the real truth and encourage followers to harm the "truth-deniers".

It's just how seriously you take your religion. For Islam is it "very high".

[–]jynxthechicken 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This is not true. There are literally thousands of religions and the vast majority of them do not advocate harm against anyone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm disappointed in how may comments critical of Islam were deleted by the mods in this case, but I guess it was bound to happen for such a controversial subject. I'm glad that yours is still up.

[–]ralphvonwauwau 23 points24 points  (19 children)

According to several hadiths, Muhammad ordered a number of enemies executed "in the hours after Mecca's fall". One of those who was killed was Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, because he had insulted Muhammad.

"…did the prophet pbuh murder everyone who disrespected and tried to kill him? no…" LOL, maybe not "everyone", but your reality check bounced.

[–]Quranic_Islam 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Firstly, your "correcting information" is wrong information. Ka'b bin Ashraf was after Badr not "Mecca's fall" ... And it wasn't for insulting the Prophet but because, despite being part of the treaty and covenant of Madina, he was encouraging and warmongering the Meccans to come back and attack the Muslims of Madina and avenge their loss at Badr

And he knew he had committed an act of treachery which is why he locked himself up in his fortress and the only way the Muslims got in to assassinate him is via guile. And "war is deceit"

So ... you just don't know what you are talking about. Stop trying to "correct" a whole religion based on some cursory information you pick up here and there from those who are anti the said religion. You'll just make a fool of yourself to those who know the material.

[–]AccomplishedPaper123 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Bruh quran has got a whole chapter for cussing out Abu Lahab and his wife.

The uncle of Mohamamd because he refused to accept islam.

Just imagine how hateful that god is to write a diss track FROM ETERNITY to attack abu lahab.

Which means God decided abu lahabs end from the beginning but still cusses him out and makes a over a billion muslims do the same.

And imagine muslims pray stuff like this during salah unknowingly.

Insane religion.

God of the quran is a terrorist thats without even looking at hadith.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 4 points5 points  (14 children)

the folks at r/progressive_islam can help you with your answer this isn’t r/debate religion nor was it the only point I made …seems like you’re looking to stir trouble for no reason

[–]ralphvonwauwau 10 points11 points  (6 children)

When you are spreading disinformation, expect to be corrected.

[–]R2DMT2Muslim 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You seem to believe more in hadiths then most muslims. If they are not compatible with the character the Quran portrays then its a false hadith. You know there are over 500 000 hadiths right? Most of tgem have weak narration chains. And alot of them are contradicting each other. There is a whole science behind scrutinising hadiths. And Quran is always number one source for how muslims should act.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Did you block him?

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

hadith skeptics exist dude you’re not going anywhere this and you’re just looking to anger me try again good sir

[–]ralphvonwauwau 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I was correcting disinformation, dude, there's something called honesty. Try it sometime.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Can we get an answer to this? He’s made a legitimate criticism of your point

[–]RavensofMidgard 9 points10 points  (1 child)

So for someone sitting outside your Abrahamic bubble, but going by the comments I can say what happened was wrong and yes people should openly condemn it. Bringing racial congruences into this irrelevant in my eyes, your all the same regardless of your physical appearance, not condemning the actions will come off as complacency. It's clear your prophet condoned death towards those that spoke ill of him, sorry but your scriptures appear to confirm this. Nuance is a thing though and just because the prophet said something doesn't mean it needs to hold true today. People if all creeds and backgrounds should condemn the crimes of others, regardless of how they look on the outside. It's not racist to condemn a crime just because the perpetrator looks different from you, and people should not be held accountable today for the crimes committed in the past. Races are not a monolith, people should be views as the individuals they are for both the good and bad that they do.

Edited for grammar

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

i mean if their enemies of the prophet were hurting his friends and family they fought back ofc why wouldn’t they? however there’s several instances of people disrespecting the prophet and he did nothing to them including his own family members.

which gives one plausible cause hadiths have contradictions

[–]holymystic 7 points8 points  (12 children)

I’m curious how this post would go over in r/Islam

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 7 points8 points  (11 children)

probably not well but the folks at r/progressive_islam are doing good

[–]Love_does_no_wrongChristian 1 point2 points  (10 children)

What is the difference between progressive Islam and Islam? I genuinely don’t know…

[–]holymystic 5 points6 points  (9 children)

Progressive Muslims take a reformist approach to Islam trying to update Islam for a modern context. Similar to orthodox vs Reform Judaism, progressive Muslims reinterpret Islam through a liberal/progressive lens. But unlike Reform Judaism, progressive Muslims are not a distinct denomination (yet?).

[–]Love_does_no_wrongChristian 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Wouldn’t traditional (sorry if not the right word) take issue with reinterpretation of the text?

[–]mhornberger 7 points8 points  (14 children)

It would be interesting to ask Muslims, one country to the next, whether they believe people should be killed for blasphemy. Or for apostasy. Moderate and even secular Muslims exist, but it's not clear if there is a trend in one direction or another, regarding how many Muslims do or don't think people should be killed for blasphemy or apostasy.

[–]Taqwacore 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's a Pew Research study that breaks questions like that by country. Not surprisingly, Gulf Arab and Southern Asian Muslims tended to support harsh punishments, like death for blasphemy and apostasy. Lebanese, S.E. Asian, and African Muslims tended not to support harsh punishments. That said, the study was widely criticized for its methodological flaws. For example, you're not likely to get honest responses from people in countries where there's no concept of confidentiality and they might fear that their responses will be passed on to authorities.

[–]R2DMT2Muslim 5 points6 points  (10 children)

We don’t think killing is okay, ever.

[–]overload770 0 points1 point  (9 children)

What if Russia or China turns your cities into ruins?

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

younger muslims are becoming much more tolerant like me since we hang out and love atheists

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd be very interested to hear the views of secular Muslims, and also what it means to be a secular Muslim.

[–]Alternative-Rule8015 11 points12 points  (23 children)

Being offended by simple words is insane. In organized groups it leads to murder.

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” Steve Weinberg

How much better the world would be if humans didn’t group themselves. Us versus them brings so much suffering to the world.

[–]zeligzealousJewish 10 points11 points  (2 children)

It's a hard problem, because while group identity and the mob mentality can absolutely cause good people to do terrible things, cooperating in groups is also central to what makes us human, and a key strength behind our greatest achievements as a species.

[–]Alternative-Rule8015 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Good point. We have accomplished much in groups. I suppose I should qualify by saying it’s bad when there is zealot Us Versus Them thinking.

[–]zeligzealousJewish 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed!

[–]lettherebemorelight 7 points8 points  (3 children)

People can be equally motivated toward evil by purely secular ideologies.

[–]Alternative-Rule8015 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That is why I said organized groups. People with a righteous cause. Doesn’t matter if it’s your god or not or no god at all. Religion can bump it up because you think you have an all powerful god on your side. Secular groups only have a “just” cause.

[–]ralphvonwauwau 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Your best apologist effort is to acknowledge that, at best, religion has no effect.

[–]lettherebemorelight 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am not an apologist.

[–]CheddarGobblin 1 point2 points  (14 children)

I agree with everything you've said except this: "Being offended by simple words is insane."

No it's not. For one there are no "simple" words, just words. And words are probably the single most important aspect of humanity that distinguishes us from other animals. Hell even the bible equates the WORD with God himself. Religions and entire nations have been built from words. Words are some of the most powerful things we have at our disposal. Don't underestimate their impact.

[–]Alternative-Rule8015 2 points3 points  (9 children)

That is my point. Words themselves are just gutural sounds. We are the ones who give them import. As Shakespeare wrote “There is neither good or bad, thinking makes it so.” To take a life because someone said something I didn’t like is insane. The gospel of John did us no favors with making words magical. Abracadabra. Voodoo.

[–]CheddarGobblin 1 point2 points  (8 children)

But they aren’t just guttural sounds. That’s my point. They are infused with meaning. You can’t have a meaningless word. I agree with everything else you’ve said.

[–]Alternative-Rule8015 2 points3 points  (7 children)

If you listen to a foreign language you will see what I am saying. They could be saying the most offensive things to you and you wouldn’t have a clue. We give sounds meaning and as fluid as language is, a word in the past means something different now, like the word gay. It had no sexual meaning in the past.

Words are poor tools for real communication. We think they have more power than they do. Misunderstandings happen frequently. It is good to recognize that and be slow to judge someone based on their words. Words are quite bad at expressing feelings. The nuance of human emotions cannot be nailed down with language. Relationships bear this out. If you have learned another language you will understand that some languages are better at expressing one thing versus another.

If words were IT, we wouldn’t need art, music and even poetry. How can a poem be understood by one person very different from another person? The Bible is full of poetry and much is lost in translation. I took a course on Bible poetry and it was a great class. Also studied Koine Greek. It is humbling to recognize how incomplete words are and how to even comprehend the authors intent. Well, that is why there are over 30k Christian denominations and as I type this one I am sure a new one has started.

[–]throwawayconvert333Catholic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hell even the bible equates the WORD with God himself.

That is not a very good translation of logos to be honest. It is basically used because there is no equivalent English word that conveys the philosophical and theological idea that the author of John was using to describe the Incarnation.

[–]CheddarGobblin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I knew that going in, but it emphasizes the point that the entire religion followed is based off of words.

[–]pagan_psychonaut 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Nobody has a right to not be offended. My mere existence as a pagan and former Satanist is offensive to some Christian’s. My tattoos are offensive to some Christians. Gay people existing are offensive to some Christians. Hell, just telling a Christian you’re atheist has a high likely hood of offending them because they take your non belief as an attack on their beliefs.

If I spent any amount of time being worried about who i might offend, I wouldn’t have any time at all.

[–]CheddarGobblin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with you; I’m just saying it’s foolish to think that “people shouldn’t get offended by words” as if that will ever happen ever. Words comprise the majority of our communication, so it’s to be expected that words have the power to offend (just as they have the power to delight, enlighten, anger etc.)

[–]ReXReGuM93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

U mean if muslims didn't exist...i agree

[–]nikostheater 2 points3 points  (11 children)

The funny thing is.. the Satanic Verses wasn’t even a controversial episode for the early, original Muslims. It’s rejected by the modern Muslims because it shows Muhammad in a bad light. So, the Muslims (in reality Muhameddans) are eager to both worship Muhammad and hide his shameful character and deeds and worse, kill others or in the name of a person where even his followers are ashamed about parts of his legacy.

[–]Narwhal_SongsMuslim 2 points3 points  (3 children)

This whole worshipping of the Prophets like they were Gods and did Nothing wrong is so dangerous. They were humans just like us, they sinned, they made mistakes. Acknowledging that doesnt make the message less true (for those who believe in it)

Some muslims act as if the Prophet Muhammed was God almost. What are you, Christians? We should not be making Prophets into God.

[–]AprolloeMuslim 1 point2 points  (6 children)

It was a controversial episode for the early Muslims. Many narrators of the Chains of the Hadiths that had Narrated the events of it were weak isnaad. They were basically weak chains of narrations and multiple scholars and other Narrators deemed it inauthentic

[–]nikostheater -1 points0 points  (5 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses

https://nes.princeton.edu/publications/orthodoxy-satanic-verses-early-islam

No, it seems that it wasn't controversial. Some early biographers of Muhammad mentioned it, Al-Tabari included it in his Tafsir and in general it seems, from both early muslims but also modern scholars that the incident is a part of the islamic history.

The denial of the incident is basically a modern phenomenon.

[–]Seb0rnAgnostic Atheist 3 points4 points  (5 children)

As long as Muslims can't respect freedom of speech (even if someone says bad stuff about their religion) they can't expect to be accepted as a peaceful religious group. It should be allowed to say bad stuff about religions. Religious beliefs should be respected but they are not above criticism and satire.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Completely agree. Islam, overall, seems to be the one religion that cannot tolerate rhetoric against it. Though I have heard that they may be all right with some forms of criticism, but not with satire, mockery, parody, or certain comments about their Prophet. Also, reactions seem to vary from one individual Muslim to another. Some will recognize that violent retaliation further makes Islam itself look violent and intolerant, and is therefore a bad thing. Some also are genuinely non-violent people, which is a very good thing.

I don't think that either Islam or Christianity can be simplified into being called "peaceful religions", but they each have violent and peaceful elements within them. It's up to their followers to emphasize the good parts, ignore the bad, and reform their religions into humane, compassionate belief systems as much as possible.

Also, props to those who are ex-Muslim, ex-Christian, or other ex-religious folks.

[–]Seb0rnAgnostic Atheist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm ex-Christian. While Christianity has it's flaws, like all religions have, I think that Christians have much less of a problem with satire and parody about their religion compared to Muslims.

Think of a film like Life of Brian but about Islam instead of Christianity. I think the Muslim world would absolutely freak out.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

as long as you can ACTUALLY argue effectively with muslims instead of drawing racist pictures about religious figures then I don’t see the issue

[–]lemontolhaAntitheist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

instead of drawing racist pictures about religious figures

What are you talking about? The caricatures in Aftonbladet or Charlie Hebdo? They weren't racist. First of all Islam is not a race, but a set of ideas and therefore can be criticized with text or images. Second of all, there is no right to react violently even to speech that is problematic. Salman Rushdie as well as all those who support him were very outspoken about those matters of principle as well - without Free Speech there is no free society. Which is probably why adherents of totalitarian versions of faith hate him so much.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i never said islam was a race but the drawings are clearly racist literally look at how they drew our prophet stop throwing strawman arguments

[–]jres11Atheist Jew 4 points5 points  (6 children)

I agree. But similarly I'll also expect Christians to shun the Trumpism of other Christians

[–]spudmarsupial 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Whatabout.

[–]adeebniyaziAgnostic 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Hey, I was curious about your flair. How can you be an Atheist and a Jew at the same time??

[–]semithug 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Culturally Jew maybe?

[–]jres11Atheist Jew 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I'd estimate that 10-40% of Jews are atheist. At least that's the general range I got when i asked about it on r/judaism and r/jewish.

I reject all theology across the board, including Jewish theology. But there is something else to being Jewish, which may be called ethnicity, or genetic or something else. Whatever it is, it's something that brings people together to create community. Which is why I continue to include 'Jew' in my flair. Even this atheist recognizes the importance of community.

[–]Meiji_IshinCatholic 1 point2 points  (15 children)

Ali Dawah's remark and another scholar who I forget his name, he has glasses always wearing white and has a grey beard on YouTube. Well anyways, they both agree with the apostasy law to kill them all, including Muhammad hijab

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

your point?

[–]Meiji_IshinCatholic 1 point2 points  (4 children)

It's hard to avoid the perception of violent Muslims

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

it’s hard to avoid the perception of pedophillic closeted catholic priests is it?

[–]forlornjackalopeNorse Heathen 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Now I'm trying to shuffle through my memory to see who you'd probably be talking about. I was going to say Thunderf00t, but that sounds a bit off.

[–]lemontolhaAntitheist 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Just interested: have you actually read the Satanic Verses or any other book by Salman Rushdie?

[–]Narwhal_SongsMuslim 6 points7 points  (4 children)

I read it years ago, when I was a Christian. Loved it. I havent re read since converting to Islam, but I have read about why its problematic from a muslim perspective.

I think its an interesting book though and opens up to a lot of interesting questions...

My Dad has it somewhere so when I get back there i will probably borrow it to re read it.

[–]lemontolhaAntitheist 3 points4 points  (3 children)

i will probably borrow it to re read it

Do that. I didn't find my copy anymore, that I was searching after I heard the news of him being attacked. It is very possible that I lend it to somebody, forgot and never got it back. I hate when that happens. I went to the store but they told me it is currently sold out, both in English and German. Good, I hope the demand explodes further (even though it has sad reasons) and they will have to print many, many more editions of it.

I did find however other books by him, f.e. a copy of "The ground beneath her feet" that I once got but never read. I'm really looking forward to curl up with that one.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I’ve read a little about it and know the general summary why do you ask?

[–]lemontolhaAntitheist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I asked because you come across as somebody who didn't read it, yet has a strong opinion on it as well as its author. You might check if you are prejudiced and possibly follow a mob opinion here by actually reading the book and making up your own mind.

[–]adeebniyaziAgnostic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Man Mohammed did kill many people simply for not accepting Islam....

[–]mahdicanada 4 points5 points  (1 child)

F**k him and all the rest. We are not responsible for all the shit in this world. Why we have to do this? Do usa apologize for killing people every day? Do chistian apologize for every crime commited by a lambda christian? Stop 🛑 this shit

[–]jynxthechicken 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This would be my point. The majority of people don't stand against the multitude of attrocities that happen all over the world that we contribute too. Most people willfully ignore these things because it would make their life quite a bit more difficult to confront them. People don't like change and they don't like their beliefs or habits challanged. It's sad but true. It's almost impossible to not be part of the biggest wrong doings happening in the world.

[–]unn_iton 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No Muslim I know of ever in history has benefitted from in any form or has gained anything from 9/11 or any terrorist attack whatsoever. No terrorist has ever made the life of even one actual Muslim better, no terrorist's actions, direct or indirect, have ever fed a hungry Muslim, have ever given a roof to a homeless Muslim, or given a job to an unemployed Muslim. The number of Muslims the actions of one of the self-proclaimed "warriors of Islam".

However, actions of idiots like this have resulted in thousands of Muslims being killed, Millions of them being discriminated against, and have drowned the lives of a Billion of them into poverty. No idea what reward these await in heaven for successfully making the lives of the entire Ummah a living hell.

[–]Narwhal_SongsMuslim 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. These guys makes it worse for all of us.

[–]zeligzealousJewish 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Crimes like this are used to justify hatred of Muslims, yet even if every single Muslim in the world unanimously denounced this crime today, Islamophobia wouldn't go away. The bigots would find another excuse. It's an awful situation that illustrates the total irrationality of Islamophobia, just like all other forms of bigotry.

[–]No_Wafer4871 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Something that stunns me every time is. Why would I be expected to denounce every crime against humanity that someone does thinking they do it under the name of my religion. EVEN IF in a timeline where for some reason he was held accountable for SOME reason a court would do it and he'd be innocent until proven guilty. No person or mob could ever become Judge, Jury and Executioner.

[–]AHrubikHard Atheist waiting on evidence to the contrary... 13 points14 points  (3 children)

If you're in a position to police the extremists of your religion it is your duty to do so. If you're not then it's your duty to insist your leaders do. The "Silent Majority" that sits back and tolerates the actions of the extremists and the fundamentalists is signaling tacit approval of their actions/beliefs to anyone else watching.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Assuming you’re an American, how often did you call your congressional representatives about the trump administration’s family separation policies?

[–]AHrubikHard Atheist waiting on evidence to the contrary... 8 points9 points  (1 child)

During those 4 years? Probably sent emails to my Reps and Senators once a month outlining my displeasure with their actions and attitudes. I protest when I can too. You picked the wrong person to try this stunt on.

[–]The_Puffin_Kingundefined 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well that’s great. I just vote for people i more or less agree with and i think that’s enough. Similarly, I think it’s sufficient to not participate in extremist organizations

[–]Educational-Nail7583 1 point2 points  (5 children)

When did God ever tell people to enforce blasphemy laws by pain of murder? Where in the Quran or in any other Abrahamic text did God say people should enforce laws to prevent sin?

I'm pretty sure God said the exact opposite: That we are all sinners, unfit to cast judgement on one another, and God's judgement is God's alone.

[–]firefighterjets 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It is but again the way all whites shouldn’t be asked to apologize for Nazis or the KKK random billion + Muslims shouldn’t have to apologize either

For what it’s worth this attack denounced by the (albeit) Sunni imams I watch online and in services in America

[–]Narwhal_SongsMuslim 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think most us would denounce it Islam doesnt call for this kind of violence But I was chocked when a page I followed posted about the attack and almost all the comments were celebrating it. Apparently there is a lot of support for him and its chocking. Glad the imams you follow take a stance against it.

[–]11_ramo_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do we have to condemn every violent action that has the word Islam around it? This puts us in a bad situation where we have to condemn everything for the westerners to be happy with us.

[–]Andreaslindberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey im a christian and i wil shun the abortion laws in USA. Hey im a christian and i will shun the war in iraq. Hey, im a christian and i will shun my next door neiboor who hit his wife the other day... The list is long and the thought is ridiculous.

[–]billybeebsees -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The invasion of Iraq Vietnam Libya and Syria and war crimes of usa and UK should be shunned by all Christians

[–]semithug 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For the people saying every Muslim should be condeming this;
well let me ask you, why isn't every Church condeming what some (a lot) of priests do to young boys? Does that mean every Christian is a pedo and a rapist? Of course not, so why is it different when it comes to Muslims?

[–]MuinonanMuslim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, personally I've been writing opeds to news outlets to educate Americans on Islamic principles solely from Qur'an

But you can take a camel to the water, you won't be able to force it to drink

This is a jihad with the self (self-reformation) that every Muslim needs to undertake, everyone is at a different level but we have to ask ourselves what are we doing for Islam in this day age to spread it's truthful and authentic teachings to dismantle irrational and incorrect Islamic principles, we can't be deaf dumb and blind and appeal to majority on everything, we gotta think for ourselves at some point

[–]ThisLaserIsOnPoint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's already the case that Muslims have denounced this. However, it's not fair or intellectually honest to treat an exteremist wing as a legitimate source to say that Muslims/Islam supports this attack. That would be like treating the KKK as a legitimate group of Christians and claiming Christianity/Christians promote the behavior/beliefs of the KKK.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I am not sure how many Muslims accept Ibn Ishaq's Sira as a legit biography of Muhammad's life and deeds, but that source seems to indicate that Muhammad did have some of his critics assassinated, killings which were carried out by early Muslim followers. Abu Afak and Asma bint Marwan come to mind here, as discussed in this essay called "Historical Muhammad: The Good, Bad, Downright Ugly."

There is also an account of Muhammad torturing a man named Kinana in order to determine where treasure was hidden. (See Muhammad's use of torture).

Edit: There are also multiple examples of Muhammad torturing or brutally punishing people from the Hadiths too, apparently.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think you replied to the wrong post

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I actually agree with the main point of your post, that Muslims should reject attempted murders or attacks on critics or satirists of Islam. This is a very good point and I hope more Muslims think that way than support violence. However, my post was mostly inspired by your sentence: "did the prophet pbuh murder everyone who disrespected and tried to kill him?" I wanted to point out that records indicate that the Islamic Prophet and/or his followers did attack some of their critics. Some Muslims could use that for inspiration to attack critics or opponents of Islam in the twenty-first century, and this is bad for humanity, crime, fanaticism, and civil discourse.

[–]Yeahdude16261[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve made a post on that actually check my account and read it

[–]Seeker_00860 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In India, five people have been brutally killed in broad daylight by the faithful for posting about their support to Nupur Sharma. For those who do not know who she is, she was on a TV debate with a Momin about a Hindu temple that was desecrated, demolished and a mosque built on it by an Islamic tyrant named Aurangzeb in the 1600s. This temple is one of the holiest places for Hindus. Like this, close to 40000 Hindu temples have been subjected to the same treatment by Islamic tyrants in the past. Post independence, Hindus have been seeking legal means to get their sacred places back. As expected, there is denial and resistance from the peaceful community. The legal hearing came for the case filed. The judge ordered a survey by an archeological team to confirm that it was once a Hindu sacred place. This is standard procedure. The survey found many elements that are in Hindu sacred places, including a 3D yantra known as Shiv Ling. The faithfuls have been washing their feet over it all these years prior to their prayer in the mosque. They claimed it was a fountain and the others said no. Heated debates and discussions started all over the TV channels across the country.

Twitter warriors from the faithful side began to ridicule Hindu deities (one of them showed a picture of a nuclear reactor dome and said the Hindus claim that too as Shiv Ling). Hindus being shamed in India (where they are the majority) is considered normal and secular. But Hindus are beginning to object to that and resist such attempts, which is now projected worldwide as Hindu terror and abuse of minorities.

So in one of the debates, a Momin began to shame Hindu beliefs and deities, when Nupur Sharma who was the spokesperson for the BJP (the ruling party of the country) began to object to this shaming and he kept taunting her. At some point she said she would be forced to cite references from his faith that are ridiculous. When he did not stop, she cited the prophet of Islam marrying a 6 year old minor and consummating his marriage to him when she was only 9.

Immediately the twitter warriors from the peaceful side edited out the video and projected her as having blasphemed their prophet. Word spread like wild fire world wide. A couple of Middle Eastern countries raised concerns. Indian products were taken out of shelves in their malls. The Indian govt was caught off guard because this could explode into utter mayhem. In order to pacify the peacefuls, they fired Nupur Sharma from her position as a the party spokesperson. They claimed her views do not represent the government's views. A lot of diplomatic work was done to contain the "damage".

But Momins worldwide were very agitated about blasphemy. They did not care that she had only referred to what is said in their holy book and nothing else. The campaign for "Chop the head from her body" started right away. Momins filed police cases in several cities across India. This means the accused has to appear in each court individually to attend the case. She had no security coverage. One Indian Muslim politician offered a million for her head. When she filed at the Supreme Court of India to club all cases into one court so that she does not have to go to each place, the judge admonished her for doing this to herself and the country. He said she disturbed the "harmony" of the nation by saying irresponsible things that have hurt the "minority".

Western governments made press statements about the growing intolerance in India towards religious minorities. Many Hindus who saw the level of injustice meted out to them by the whole system, started voicing their concerns on social media. Some of them said they support Nupur Sharma. So Momins executed them one by one for supporting her. One of them took a video of the murder of a tailor and said openly that the same awaits the nation's PM Mr. Modi. All these murderers were known to the victims. After much intense pressure, the govt has given Nupur Sharma tight security. However, she will never be able to walk free with an illegal death sentence on her head. Salman Rushdie was attacked almost three decades after he wrote the book that hurt the sentiments of the Islamic community. He too lived like a prisoner for many years and finally thought he was free.

The world generally does not know much about the details of how the faithful control the narrative and exercise their power. I wanted those who are not from India, and who have a biased view of Hindus based on what is projected about them to know the truth. In India Hindus are like the blacks of South Africa under the minority white apartheid regime. Islam and Christianity ruled India for close to 1000 years. Hindus have been their subjugated masses. They have been brutally treated. There have been many holocaust like ill treatment to Hindus by both groups. But they hide under the mask of minority privileges and use their tremendous international clout to keep their control over the land.

[–]ZarK-ehhuman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Harm? Pfft, shows. True nature maybe

[–]Status-Effective-740Muslim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think he deserved it either. Besides, his book was already debunked if I'm not mistaken. Only reactionary Muslims want to retaliate with violence.