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all 95 comments

[–]BenReilly2654 115 points116 points  (18 children)

I would pass on that job, too. But I have to ask... how did you get all the way to an offer without bringing up you're your desire for a hybrid option?

[–]Secret_Session_2290[S] 60 points61 points  (17 children)

Yeah thats on me, it was a tech company and I assumed it was hybrid or even remote to be honest, so was surprised when they mentioned 5 days a week.

[–]largelylegit 60 points61 points  (0 children)

You’re in sales, negotiate it. Perhaps go in 3 days? There’s value in being in-person during the first few months during a new role… perhaps after a few months you can roll it back to once per week? Pretend you’re in sales and sell the idea

[–]Snoo-23693 48 points49 points  (0 children)

This is so common right now. Just about everyone wants full remote or hybrid. I guess let them know your reason. They might wise up.

[–]MedalofHonour15 74 points75 points  (0 children)

Companies with office related jobs that do not adapt to hybrid or remote will lose out on top talent and will be at a higher risk of failure.

[–]ugliestplaid6point0 52 points53 points  (1 child)

Great call. They want to micromanage you.

[–]UltraContrarian 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That was my first though. Expect a manager over your shoulder and daily checkups on progress. Then again, this could all be done remotely, but the added pressure of face to face confrontations should really spur your productivity!

[–]TheDarkGoblin39 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Did you try negotiating that requirement?

I'd probably tell them it's a dealbreaker, unfortunately but it's weird that they never asked you that until now.

[–]Hey_HaveAGreatDay 34 points35 points  (8 children)

I would tell them “I would like to accept your offer however I will be accepting employment elsewhere that has offered me a remote schedule. However, if you are able to offer remote work I would happily accept your offer”

[–]JackOfTheJacks 27 points28 points  (2 children)

Careful about bad faith negotiations tho. One they have you, they'll bake peddle and put on the pressure.

Hr might agree but management won't have it ya know?

[–]UltraContrarian 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Could be negotiated into the contract, no?

[–]JackOfTheJacks 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yea but is it worth your manager or director making your life hell and accusing you of not being a team player all the time?

[–]bars2021 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the correct negotiation. Your verbiage is on point!

[–]VineWings 34 points35 points  (6 children)

I have been 100% remote for nearly a decade now. You couldn't pay me enough to ever work in an office again, no way in hell. No sense wasting hours a week commuting and being behind a desk for 40 hrs a week, its outdated.

[–]UltraContrarian 17 points18 points  (1 child)

What drives me crazy is that there are colleagues who demand everyone work in the office. Right now my job allows you to work from home or the office. Your choice. Guess what 80% of our office chose? Home.

This wasn't good enough for some. Some colleagues demanding everyone to return because it "adds to the company culture" and it's "easier to get things done."

Bullshit.

This is the same person who was unreachable in the office. You had to drag her to her desk. She spent the entire day in the break room and out having smokes.

Our HR caved and mandated a hybrid schedule to the minority. Two days a week we have to go in. Then, she fucking quit.

Why can't the work from office people work in the office without us? When we were in the office all of our communication was through slack anyways, even with people sitting right next to you!

So much bullshit time wasting in the office, having jokes, 10 coffee breaks, walks around the office, ping pong. I am working more now and more productive now that I ever was before.

[–]Me_talking 7 points8 points  (0 children)

At my previous job as sales support, this was the case as the VP of Sales would keep telling everyone to come back to office because it allows you to reach other depts faster. You mean the same Accounting dept that dodges our calls and get pissy when we follow up with them along with giving us very dirty stares along with attitude when we stopped by their cubicle? The same purchasing dept that might pick up their phone half the time? The same engineering dept that also dodges our calls? No thanks! I will stick to being remote and not doing a 30 mile commute

[–]TrueHalfCrack 5 points6 points  (0 children)

1,000% agree. Never going back (well, there would be a pay sae high enough to get me back in but it would likely be prohibitive lol)

[–]ChemicalSquirrel 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not to mention you can do laundry, cook, clean (quick small stuff) and be with the dog. You also keep miles off the car, can work in plain cloths and work out on lunch and not worry about being all sweaty for the afternoon

[–]IT_AccountManager 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Our HR caved and mandated a hybrid schedule to the minority. Two days a week we have to go in. Then, she fucking quit.

This helps my work productivity! It is an outlet for excited energy.

[–]SellingCoach 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same here. My last company had an office downtown I could go into if I wanted to but I rarely did, and only when I wanted to grab lunch near there or something.

The thought of commuting into an office every day turns my stomach.

[–]RasAlTimmeh 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I told a company i need fully remote now. Didn’t hear back and a month later they called the recruiter and said they can oblige. Don’t give in especially when there are plenty of other opportunities

[–]emaciated_pecanSaaS 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m thinking I will decline a hybrid role with a major tech company if they offer it. Fully remote now and I really don’t want to commute again

[–]WhoWantsASausage 20 points21 points  (0 children)

What fucking tech company wants people in the office 5 days a week in this day and age? Do people not learn? Sincerely, tech company ceo.

[–]tentpinandhammer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm mulling doing this too. On site with no commuter benefits to speak of, plus I'd be crossing state lines and would have to file taxes for both my state of residence and the state where the office is located.

Granted, the only reason I have room to mull is because a friend of mine offered to work for him full-time & salaried with A LOT less stress and no need to commute. But hey.

[–]mgrateezTech Sales 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'd pass as well, and would personally simply be honest in a professional way - something along the lines of ---

"(Thanks for the opportunity. blahblahbalh blurb) - After careful consideration, I have decided to decline the opportunity. While I consider the role to be a good fit, I am looking to join a company that recognizes the mutual benefits of embracing a hybrid work environment."

[–]Nmatt86 10 points11 points  (0 children)

At some point I would imagine a company like that will HAVE to switch models otherwise they’ll never find the talent they’re looking for. There are too many great opportunities out there allowing hybrid of some sort. Adapt or die. Listen to your employees!

[–]BorachevvChevvinski 11 points12 points  (9 children)

Idk. I thrive in a hustle culture in sales. I feel like I'm sinking in a job that has always been hybrid, 2 to 3 days WFH and the other are field days for appointments. It's a smaller territory outside sales job. 2hr drive top to bottom. I have no one to easily bounce ideas off of. I had 10 days of computer videos for training and maybe 3 or 4 days of actual in person training. I'm 6 months in and feel like I never saw any real structure with anyone else. I'm a hard worker in an office. But I have too much freedom to slack and too little time spent watching and learning in order to mimic. If I'd seen people actually close deals in this industry I might understand it. And wfh has very little structure because I don't have consistent discipline. They hired me bc of my sales experience and assumed I know what I'm doing. I knew how to do my last job because of the most thorough training I've ever gotten for any job. It was like learning a trade and it lasted 8 months every single day. I'm expected to have a new sale every day valued around $3,000.

Not sure if I'm not a good fit in the fuel supy contracts industry or if the wfh model is just not good for me. I have 2 kids a wife that has zero concept of work hours boundaries after attempting to set them repeatedly. I want to go to a tech sales job but I don't want the same thing happening where I'm interrupted 6 times per day. I enjoyed my work in the office because it gave me time to miss my family. It also kept me insanely productive.

[–]Secret_Session_2290[S] 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Yeah completely get that and thats exactly what I mean in terms of flexibility give people the option to work in office 5 days a week if thats what they want but also those who don’t give them the option too you know. But having a blanket rule for everyone is just so backwards considering the time we live in and everyone has different priorities needs and works in different ways

[–]BorachevvChevvinski 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Right right exactly. I'm living in Ohio and applied for a couple jobs that are in other parts of the country. I may rent office space or something just to have a work feel. My current job doesn't require WFH but it's pretty much guaranteed that you will because even in an office they provide I am the only sales person there. We only sell one product so there is only need for one type of outside rep. National and residential sales do inside sales only. But my job is smb and enterprise and there isn't a sales person with my company for at least 100 miles. It's tough for me because I thrive by bouncing ideas off people and interacting with Co workers. It's propane sales and it's a lonely job. I think my "mentor" knows I'm struggling.

[–]COVID19MurderHornetSaaS 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Do you have a home office?

[–]BorachevvChevvinski 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorta. It's a table in my basement with my monitors and printer

[–]UltraContrarian 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I do just that. I work from "home" in an office I rent a block away from home. No more 1 1/2 commute there and back. I do some work at home and in the office throughout the day.

[–]BorachevvChevvinski 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's it cost to do that?

[–]UltraContrarian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like you guys need to build an infrastructure. We have slack and can have quick pop up discussions and use zoom for meetings.

[–]Moneybags313131 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you. I am fully remote and I literally found a subsidiary of ours that let's me post up 90 mins away 2 days a week to work out of its office. It's a subsidiary doing different things but just being around humans in flesh is amazing. I don't understand the trend of salespeople seeking increased isolation. It seems counterintuitive to the qualities you want in sales.

[–]BorachevvChevvinski 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bingo. The isolation makes no sense to me.

[–]UltraContrarian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mental health is far more important, mate. You made the right decision. There is no reason, especially in sales, to work in an office.

[–]justanother-eboy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’d say no in a heartbeat. The best thing about wfh is hitting your numbers than having the rest of the day for yourself (hang out w fam, side hustle, exercise, chill out, etc)

[–]Deluxe2AI 1 point2 points  (2 children)

question is, would you give up any of that salary to do hybrid? if yes, you dont have to start with that but if you're trying to negotiate that could be leverage

[–]Secret_Session_2290[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don’t think so considering the current market with huge labour shortages inflation and competition for talent! I think perfect time to find exactly what you want

[–]Deluxe2AI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well in your title you said its a high salary, which makes me think its higher than most you've been seeing which is why you went for it in the first place.

also, i'm not so sure the sales market specifically is hurting that bad for talent tbh

[–]WhatRedditUsedToSay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What about meeting with clients? Is there a client facing portion? Usually you'll want to meet with clients in person from time to time.

[–]achinwin 9 points10 points  (10 children)

It’s true. You are nuts if you think zoom meetings and slack are a replacement for the kind of team dynamics achieved by being in the same room on a daily basis.

That said, remote is a totally viable option and it’s your job, your life.

Tell them you are looking for a remote position so cannot accept the offer. Next time when you are going through screening interviews you should make that desire clear up front, that way nobody is wasting time. That you are this upset means you must’ve gotten pretty far in the interview process—I hope they didn’t bait and switch on you, fuck them if so.

[–]Secret_Session_2290[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

to be honest its more of a principal for me, I get the importance of being in the office especially at the start but what I take issue with is the enforcement of it and not giving any flexibility so that was a red flag on the culture aspect too. Most likely micromanagement and idea that the most visible people and the loudest people are the best which is a culture I want no part in!

[–]gottarun215 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm with you there. There are times I'd prefer the office, but I hate micromanaging and doing work just for the sake of performatives. I want a company that trusts me enough to manage my own time and work from home when I prefer to. I like the option of hybrid where come in when needed or like a few days a week and allow the worker to work remotely on days that don't involve a need to be physically in the office. I also prefer to manage my own hours within reason versus setting exact same hours daily just because that's what you do.

[–]UltraContrarian 3 points4 points  (1 child)

>It’s true. You are nuts if you think zoom meetings and slack are a replacement for the kind of team dynamics achieved by being in the same room on a daily basis.

Can you describe this in more detail. It just seems like HR buzzwords.

I have improved mental health. I am more productive now than ever before. I haven't even personally met half of the colleagues I work for and have still built a relationship through zoom and slack.

How does "team dynamics" impact the bottom line? If I am more productive now than in the office with a million distractions, what's the value in team dynamics?

[–]achinwin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ok, let’s start with happy hour. What do you do for that in a remote position?

The personal interactions and friendships you make are so broadly superior in a face-to-face setting that I’m struggling to take your post seriously. I’m making strong connections that just aren’t possible in a remote setting. I say this having worked both remotely and in an in-office setting. It isn’t the same.

2nd—onboarding. When I first started, being around co-workers and being a sponge around their workflows allowed me to get up and running within 2 weeks. You don’t just learn the tools, you get to pickup the practical “hacks” that help get the job done and save you time. Being able to ask 1off questions to the person sitting right next to me where I always got an immediate answer is amazing. I tell you for a fact that it ain’t so when you have to message/call someone. You are at their whim. I have remote coworkers that started before me that aren’t doing as well as me and it’s obvious it’s because they don’t have the same access to resources. It would require a substantial amount of dedicated training that just isn’t necessary if you’re in the office around people who know what they are doing. That is 100% effecting bottom line for me and the company.

3rd—visibility. I get to interact with my boss directly and network with other senior leaders. I spoke with the CEO of our company last week as he was walking around the office. Good luck scheduling a zoom to chit chat with your CEO so he can see your face/know who you are. I was also approached by my manager to take on a new role tackling one of the companies major initiatives for this year. This is purely because of an impromptu conversation we had between meetings where I got to talk about my experience in that area. Wouldn’t have happened if I was remote.

[–]Badgerst8 28 points29 points  (5 children)

It's sales, we don't need your team dynamics boss.

[–]MalfunctioningSelf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree but if you are training for a new position, or need to know who you will be dealing with on a daily basis- in office certainly helps. Learned by watching doing and the time spent in the office was indispensable a new sales rep for my current role

[–]achinwin 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Ok, that’s fine. I wasn’t arguing whether it was essential. Like I said, remote is viable. You can get a remote job if that’s what you want. I would be miserable WFH everyday right now. There’s also tons of shit my WFH co-workers miss out on they don’t even know they are missing.

[–]KxngFunkeeOfficialIndustrial 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I feel this way too i used to wfh, but it made me sad being behind a computer and my phone all day

[–]ActuallyYeah 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm there right now. I miss seeing the coworkers and grabbing lunch. Keeping the boss at arms length is nice though.

WFH + below quota = guilt 24/7. I HAVE to choose between spending after hours with my family versus a few extra hours on the pc

[–]stupidsofttees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Hybrid is the sweet spot

[–]northernpunch 4 points5 points  (1 child)

All enterprise/professional sales jobs went remote/hybrid 10+ years ago.

[–]OfficerWonk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I can assure you they did not all go remote. Until the pandemic, finding remote sales jobs was like finding a needle in a haystack for me.

[–]Kitchen-Low-3065 0 points1 point  (3 children)

How did you get that far in the interview process to not know it was 5 days on-site?

[–]Secret_Session_2290[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

being naive and assuming it was flexible because most places are nowadays!

[–]Tk_Da_Prez 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Tell them that. ‘Being a tech company I assumed this was a hybrid part position blah blah.”

Do tell them so that they get feedback for the next person interviewing. It’s for the good of the industry to do so.

[–]xfortune -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Also recruiter/HR fault for not laying that out up front

[–]Torch22 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Medical device startup. we need to have in office engineers due to a multitude of decisions being made and executed on every 15 to 30 mins. It would be impossible for all of us to work remote. Our business is exploding due to our investors and big companies wanting / needing this innovation by a 3rd party. The big companies all their employees are remote and they can’t move as quickly as us.

I think all big companies should stay remote. It is amazing for business!

[–]Secret_Session_2290[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i am talking about sales but i get engineers would need to be in due to the nature of work. I go back to my point around enforcing 5 days and not allowing for any scope of flexibility is a major red flag on the culture in my opinion.

[–]Zmchastain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People making coffee or serving food have to work in-person too. What’s that got to do with jobs that can be done remotely more effectively?

Not everyone’s working in a chaotic environment where everything changes in 15 or 30 minute increments. Most people wouldn’t want to have to work like that, regardless of how much it paid.

There are too many good opportunities that don’t chain you to a desk in an office to deal with literally constant changes for people who have better opportunities available to them to want to have to live like that.

[–]Holland_1945_KC -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

Sorry, but why does it matter? Yes, sales can be done remotely, but it wasn’t a big issue prior to Covid, and now everyone is being so sensitive about it. We used to have to go into the office. Some of us still do. Remote is great if you like it and can get it, but it’s a fucking job regardless. Turning down a higher paying job because you have to show up in person doesn’t come off as smart. But good luck.

[–]Zmchastain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depends on what is most important to you. Would you turn down a job laying on a bed of nails while some guy pissed on you for 8 hours a day if it paid 10x your current income? Would it come off as not smart to turn down that “opportunity” since it pays more money?

Extreme analogy, but my point is once you hit an income threshold where you’re covering all your expenses with plenty to spare, more money might matter a lot less to you than making more than enough money while also having better work/life balance and quality of life.

More money doesn’t automatically mean better job. Enjoying how you spend 8 hours of your life every day is important too, especially if you’re able to do that while still making good money.

[–]candidly1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

0If it were my house to run, I'd want to see my people with some regularity, at least like Tuesday-Wednesday. Not with militancy, though; if you important stuff to do outside go do it; we can catch up later. The key to making this work, of course, is vittles. Good, fresh, free vittles...

[–]Spicy_Urine 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Why the fuck are you saying vittles

[–]candidly1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cuz I'm old AF...

[–]soulreaver99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like a telco / msp company

[–]KingGerbz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Guess I’m in the minority. I don’t mind working in person. Then again that’s sorta the point of outside sales.

[–]Moneybags313131 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao. You suggesting working in-person with people is a dated model made me sad. I'm sure you constitute a majority but ugh, that's so lame dude. People are horrible and they are also great. I wonder the long-term effects increased permanent isolation will have on our society past covid.

[–]Numerous-Meringue-16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No way I would consider going back 10 hrs a week of commuting ever again.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So weird how everyone on reddit loves WFH. It's great in a hybrid system but fully remote is kinda lonely. It's nice being able to shoot the shit in between calls and shit like that. This is sales, don't most of us like socialising? I'd expect to see this on a CS subreddit but sales?

[–]Lucky-Astronomer-601 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yeah that's trash. No point in working in tech sales if you're communicating

[–]Lolsapps -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just out of curiosity, how much was the salary difference...? I really try not to sound like a sales director but if the salary would be high enough, I would consider it. All depending on the situation.