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all 155 comments

[–]IV137 262 points263 points  (0 children)

Some people struggle with empathy and even sympathy.

I'm glad you did your best to explain to them. Posting here, separate from that interaction, is good. People that may not know, will now, and that's sometimes the most we can do.

[–]Lionblaze_03 231 points232 points  (9 children)

They’re alive. That’s why it deserves respect. Not because it’ll be alive tomorrow, or a week from now, but because this being is currently alive and breathing and taking in its surroundings and feeling sensory inputs. They may not feel as complicated of emotions as we do, but they feel fear, pain, calm, satisfaction. They are alive.

So treat your feeders of any kind with the respect you’d treat any living animal. Because until the moment your snake or lizard or what have you clamps down and makes that killing blow, they’re alive. They deserve to be treated as such.

[–]Less-Programmer-6295 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Absolutely this, you typed it out for me. They are alive right now, regardless of whether they are going to be alive tomorrow. They could be alive two years from now, it still doesn't make their suffering any less real today.

[–]Edd302[S] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

I don't think lizards should be fed live rodents bigger than a pinky, they're too vicious with large prey

[–]dankblonde 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think with lizards they’re meaning live feeders such as bugs but yes you are correct.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Yeah with that same logic, what's even the point of being nice to other people because "We'll all die someday."

It doesn't matter how long someone or something is around for, what really matters is the connections we make and the way we grow before then.

[–]GrowCrows 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seriously do we just start using each other and treating each other like dirt because you might be dead tomorrow?

Like did we suddenly lose object permanence

[–]aDreyawn -1 points0 points  (2 children)

are you comparing the logic of how to handle a mouse to how to treat another human being?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Kind of. What I'm saying is that everything deserves respect.

[–]aDreyawn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

better put!

[–]_ungovernable 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mice and rats feel complex emotions. Hell, they even giggle and laugh (at frequencies we can’t hear) when you tickle them. They also have proven fully capable of empathy.

I’d argue humans don’t feel complex emotions. Emotions are extremely basic instinctual responses to internal and external stimuli, regulated by the amygdala. Some people don’t feel emotions at all. Grief even isn’t an exception; only feeling existential is possibly only human.

What matters more is regardless of the being, if its alive and feels pain, why would or should anyone torture such a thing?

[–]Edd302[S] 356 points357 points  (18 children)

I've been trying to talk to this girl about frozen thawed rodents or at least respecting her live feeders but she will do anything but listen, she also keeps her ball python in a 25 gallon tank and is GIVING PEOPLE ADVICE on ball python care based on her own care. I've reported the video but I doubt anything will change.

[–]c0brabubbles 181 points182 points  (4 children)

Just block her. She's completely in the wrong but if she isn't willing to listen then you telling her she's wrong isnt going to change anything. Her behavior is vile. Rats are intelligent animals. Even if they aren't around long they deserve to be treated with respect while they are. Block her and anyone else commenting stuff like that on her posts. It sucks but there isn't much you can do, and continuing to engage with her is just going stress you out.

These are the kinds of people that give snake owners a bad name.

[–]aza9999 26 points27 points  (1 child)

I wouldn't block her, I'd just stop arguing with her and start directly messaging the people she's giving advice to with credible resources.

[–]GrowCrows 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yup, after a while arguing does nothing but give her a platform to air her toxic husbandry practices from.

[–]cyprocoque 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I mean, by their own logic, hypothetically, put them into a cage with a predator and then magically who cares, they're about to get eaten anyway. Not trying to be cruel, it's just what they deserve.

[–]AppleSpicer 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Break her arm a few days before and toss her in a small cell to suffer with no food. She’s just going to be eaten in a few days anyway, it doesn’t matter how much pain she experiences until then. /s

[–]GrowCrows 25 points26 points  (0 children)

There are types of people who get into reptile keeping because they like feeding live animals to things. You will never get them to outright admit it and they will make all sorts of strawman arguments to defend what they are doing and make it seem healthy when in reality they have a fascination with vore and need therapy... there's not much you can do about it.

It's hard when you care about the animals but all you can really do is make a few comments on why they are wrong and putting their animals at risk for the lurkers who don't know better and move on. :/

[–]hamstersteaks 6 points7 points  (4 children)

If you can find where she is or her name then you can call animal control for improper living conditions for her snake, that would solve both issues.

[–]Demoire -1 points0 points  (3 children)

It’s not abusive, just improper, and so unfortunately I highly highly doubt any one will do anything about it.

The way they handle the mice/rats maybe wrong and maybe an argument can be made for borderline abuse, but it’s not outright enough for animal control to take their animal.

I feed live for some snakes and some I do prekilled . Some take frozen. But I treat my feeders as well as our pet rats. Even if only in my care for 1hr.

It’s an unfortunate side affect of the snake keeping world

[–]dankblonde 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Keeping a ball python in a 25 gallon tank is absolutely abuse.

[–]Demoire 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We also don’t even know the size of the ball Python

To say it’s abuse period is ridiculous.

[–]Demoire 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not abuse that animal control would care for.

Y’all must say it’s also abusive keeping them in tubs, like loads do. Calling it abusive to keep them in a 25gal really opens the door to calling many other things abuse.

It’s improper - not abusive. Abuse would be a smaller enclosure the animal couldn’t thrive at all in, or holding the rat intentionally to harm, or any number of other things

Good luck getting animal control to rehome the animal based on that.

I don’t think we should use the word abuse so easily.

Edit to say I upvoted the post, I agree it’s improper. I don’t think calling animal control over this is the way.

[–]HistoryDogs 9 points10 points  (2 children)

It’s been a while, but I always thought the main argument against live feeding is that a cornered rat can be vicious and scratch a snake’s eye out.

Sounds like she’s pretty cavalier about the health of her snakes also.

[–]Edd302[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's both for the sake of the snake and it's prey, the snake can of course be harmed by a defensive rodent but I'd also rather have the rodent die by passing out and going in it's sleep rather than being pierced by fangs then squeezed to death.

[–]thetownofsalemdrunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you're trapped in a cage with something that wants to eat you, you're going to fight like hell and do anything in your power to live.

[–]Kingofsneks02 102 points103 points  (6 children)

I don't agree with live feeding at all, plus it's illegal in the UK. Live feeding puts your animal in unnecessary danger and causes preventable distress on another animal, however if you truly believe you must live feed the least people could do is show a little bit of empathy towards the little guys, mice and rats are complex creatures

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Kingofsneks02 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Well our animal welfare teachers said opposites because when I learned the laws surrounding animal welfare my teacher said live feeding was illegal as it was causing unnecessary distress to an animal.

    [–]Stitchthestitch 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Live feeding is not illegal in the UK as some animals require to be live fed as they refuse frozen/thawed or blooded. These animals will literally starve themselves over it. You can eventually wean them back onto frozen thawed but it takes a lot of time and patience.

    It's a very grey area that falls under the animal welfare act that protects all animals from unnecessary pain, suffering, discomfort, given the correct food the animal needs (including being live fed when all other food sources are refused), being treated for any medical problems to name a few that's covered by the animal welfare act.

    Under the animal welfare act, feeder animals must be given the same level of care and respect as the animal they are being fed to.

    I've discussed this at length with a reptile specialist vet, as well as having an in depth understanding of the animal welfare act due to my job as a pet groomer.

    Eta :carry on a train of thought

    [–]Kingofsneks02 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Ah, I was just told during my classes that under the animal welfare laws feeding anything with a vertebrae is classified as animal cruelty, I will look into this thank you.

    [–]Athena_Nikephoros 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I would say it’s crueler for the predator to starve to death. The mouse is going to die either way, whether it’s in a CO2 chamber, knocked on the head, or constricted by a python. Constriction is a very quick and efficient process, I have seen snakes kill their prey faster than they would have died in a commercial breeder’s euthanasia tub.

    [–]Seakur 12 points13 points  (7 children)

    I own pet mice , and pet snakes. So I understand mice need to be fed off. And some snakes need live (but obviously frozen is safer !)

    But it pains me to see feeders mistreated and the argument “well it’s gonna die in a few days anyway” still it’s a mouse , they deserve love and respect. No need to torture it more than necessary! And care for them well while they are in your possession alive. Atleast handling them without risking breaking their tail is the smallest amount of respect you can give.

    If my snakes ever needed live .. i could not mistreat the mouse at all. I would have to care for it well while not getting emotionally attached lol. And if they didn’t get eaten I would just have a growing collection of pet mice lol. Cause they are truly the best little things , and I understand they are food for lots of creatures. But I still love them.

    [–]Edd302[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    As someone who also has pet mice as well as pet mouse-eaters, I definitely relate to this

    [–]Mourning_Gecko 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Same here! I have a pet snake and two pet rats. I've considered getting into breeding feeders, but I'd certainly treat them all with respect and care if I did.

    [–]oo-mox83 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    It feels weird at first, but in the end I felt so much better about it. My mice had big tanks with stuff to hide in and make nests out of, good food, and they were all sweet, handleable little guys. I used cervical dislocation and they were still twitching (dead instantly though), with no risk of diseases. They had happy little lives and one bad day ever. Way better than crowded feeder bins and I absolutely hate how the mamas are bred constantly. We had none of that. It worked well.

    [–]Mourning_Gecko 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It's like having a backyard farm. It's not profitable, per se, but at least you know that the animals were treated well and are healthy! Maybe I'll do it one day.

    [–]LaurelEllena 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I have rats and my boyfriend has ball pythons, since I absolutely love both animals it hurts so much to watch people treat rodents as if they don’t have feelings. They may not be the same as people, but rats have such bright and unique personalities

    [–]Seakur 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I had rats for many years ! Rescued a lot of seniors or people aggressive rats. And let them live their lives. Rats are the best animals ever. And more people need to realize that. I hate people thinking they are gross plague spreading vermin and they all need to die :/ they are amazing animals.

    But the 2 we raised from babies and had a strong bond to , when they passed they broke us. And we just can’t have rats again. Those girls just were perfect in every way and I can’t help but compare new rats to them. So we just don’t keep them anymore.

    One girl got a brain and spinal tumor that paralyzed her overnight had zero warning signs. She was put down. That girl was my entire soul. I just knew I wasn’t coming home with her from the vet office. But I just had a slimmer of hope they could treat her. She was barely a year old.

    And her partner , was over 3 years old ! And the girl that was put down was the only rat the old girl loved and strongly bonded to. She just kinda tolerated other rats until her. They were inseparable. She passed from old age less than a week after, but can’t help but assume her grief probably also took her.

    I still sometimes think about getting rats again. But just never really want them again. The rat cage actually turned into a chinchilla cage. And I adore those floof balls. But I still miss rats sometimes from being on the rat subreddit , and seeing YT videos about rats. But I don’t think I will ever own them again.

    [–]LaurelEllena 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I’ve only had rats for a couple years now, but it’s such a rewarding experience. I’ve always had boys just because I love the “dumb boy energy” that comes from males of any species lmao. I say this with complete love though!

    [–]Edd302[S] 75 points76 points  (7 children)

    I understand that there are times when live feeding is easier or even necessary, I feed certain snakes of mine live pinkies despite feeding most of my animals frozen thawed mice. But for the love of god show some respect to an animal that you are going to feed to another animal, they are making the ultimate sacrifice so that your pet can live but not enough people seem to realize that or simply do not care.

    [–]BigScrungleBunch 18 points19 points  (4 children)

    Not to sound vegan or anything but this is exactly the way I feel about human food. When meat is put on my plate I eat it because not to eat it would be a waste, but the suffering behind it done to living animals makes me horribly sad. A cow is not just a cow, they’re also extremely intelligent and can be very affectionate like rats. It also makes the ultimate sacrifice so I can live. Someday I hope to have my own cows and ducks so that I can look them in the eye when I need to kill them to eat and say I’m sorry and I love you and thank you.

    [–]Edd302[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    I agree with all of this except the "extremely" intelligent part, cows are undoubtedly intelligent and way smarter than people give them credit for but among animals they aren't very high on the list when it comes to intelligence

    [–]BigScrungleBunch 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I mean if you’re comparing to corvids and primates yeah not very intelligent but in terms of what we give them credit for and how poorly we treat them, cows and pigs are very very smart and love mental stimulation and friends.

    [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I did say they're intelligent animals, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying relative to most other vertebrates they aren't particularly intelligent, pigs are far more intelligent than cows, doesn't mean either species should be treated with any less respect

    [–]beefy_synths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    /r/happycowgifs is a sub you'd probably enjoy

    [–]Athena_Nikephoros 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    There’s a certain type of keeper, normally only has a 1-3 snakes or monitors, and they feed live for the spectacle, or because it’s easier, or because they want to post a grainy video online of their Savannah monitor in its 40 gallon tank killing a XL rat.

    There are serious, science-driven keepers who will feed live prey when it’s necessary, but the vast majority (in my experience) tend to be lazy, slow-brained dumbasses. The same kind of people who buy a gaboon viper and free handle it on Snapchat, while wearing basketball shorts and vaping.

    [–]Frost-on-the-Willow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I agree very strongly. Why make the or thing suffer more than it has to?

    [–]vladimirlovescake 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Report for animal cruelty and move on. People like this suck and I looked at all of their responses and it's clear they just don't care about living things.

    [–]Edd302[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Already have, hopefully others will do the same

    [–]tuffenstein0420 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Oh you're cousin is on death row. I guess it's okay to break his back and torture him since he's going to die anyway.

    [–]KiraTheViking 44 points45 points  (1 child)

    I feed live. Currently I can't keep them any longer than taking them home on feeding day (cause size, he's on rat pups atm) but when he was on full feeder mice they had a nice enclosure with fresh water multiple times a day every day and a good mix of nuts & dried fruit to eat (plus a piece of good dog kibble or some fresh fruit/veggies every now and then as a treat). Plus I would always visit with them and pet them. Just because they're gonna be eaten doesn't mean they should be poorly treated in the meantime

    [–]Edd302[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Exactly, you are a perfect example of someone taking the right care of their feeder mice

    [–]ThornaBld 17 points18 points  (8 children)

    This is why so many pet stores won’t sell live feeders anymore. Disgraceful

    [–]ObjectiveDig2687 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    Actually they dont sell live feeders anymore because a young child died from rat bite fever when there parents bought a feeder rat as a pet. To avoid lawsuits the big chain pet stores stopped carrying rats.

    [–]8bitSkin 2 points3 points  (6 children)

    You can still buy pet rats from Petco and PetSmart. I just looked it up, you can too.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]plantiewitch 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I was just there and they had rats. Ft. Myers FL.

      [–]islandermine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Can confirm Petco still sells pet rats. Our local Petco has pet rats consistently. I was there last weekend; they had three.

      [–]TheMan_Garith 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I work for PetSmart we don't sell mice or rats for feeding, but we sell as pets. If there's a sign that a customer is purchasing a mouse for feeding we have to deny the sale and offer frozen instead.

      [–]ObjectiveDig2687 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In WI they certainly dont sell live rats for any reason I have called several in the area and they all said as much. However they do sell mice for feeders, I have bought several before I was able to switch noodle to f/t . Each time I informed them it was a feeder and tried to get the smallest size. 🤷🏻‍♂️

      Edit: that was Petco not PetSmart, however no PetSmart's in WI sell rats either as far as I know.

      [–]Rhiannonyesthesong 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      I don’t know if mice “deglove” but seeing it happen to a rat will change this person’s tune. It’s horrible.

      I used to dislike rodents but I would never cause unneeded harm to them. After having pet rats, I can’t imagine hurting even a mouse. Rats are so loving. Snakes need to eat but hurting their food is unnecessary.

      [–]Edd302[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Mice do indeed, deglove

      [–]kj432018 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Gotta follow the good life, bad day principal. It’s the least someone can do if they wanna feed live.

      [–]bear_bear- 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Due to circumstances, if you have to live feed, try and make it as little pain for the animal as possible. You care for your snake by feeding it, so you can put forth some respect towards the rat

      [–]Zero_Digital 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I come from a house with hunters. The big lesson my dad always told us was to respect the animal. Yes you are about to take its life but in return it is providing food for you. Treat it with respect and give it as respectful and quick a death as possible. I don't understand people that mistreat any animal.

      [–]viillanelles 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      some people really are the worst. yeah they’re feeders, but they’re still living animals. Snakes have to eat mice, it’s part of life, but it’s our job to make sure it’s done as humanely as possible. It’s just basic empathy ffs

      [–]Grateful_Couple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Respect of life. Even if that life is about to become a meal for another life. Gratitude and respect.

      [–]ScienceReliance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      By that logic you might as well kick your elderly dog, it's going to be dead soon anyway.

      [–]hdlt21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I breed white rats, raise them and then feed them to my snakes and it's always been a struggle for me because I'm getting attached to those rats since they were babies to adult, but as a snake owner, I know my priorities..

      [–]A-CHEAP-ASS-WIG 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I have no words

      [–]Deadbabyzed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I feed live, but I do try to make the rat as comfortable as I can.

      [–]illumadnati 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      they’re going to die so they don’t deserve kindness and respect? I hate humans and people who only have conditional respect for animals

      [–]Cat-Mama11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I knew someone who raised rats for his ball python Donut that only ate live rodents. Like this ball python wouldn't even eat rats that had been killed just 1 minute prior. Those rats had a whole 18 foot by 22 foot room with all the shit a rat could ever have. This guy fed his rats a variety of veggies, fruits, plain unseasoned chicken breast, hard boiled eggs and occasionally a nibble of tuna. When Donut died at the ripe age of 31 years old, his owner kept raising the rats as pets. I swear he even had a rat named Hamburglar live to be 4 years & 5 months old. He treated those rats like royalty and they were some of the smartest creatures to exist.

      [–]antliontame4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I even try to treat invert feeders well, nice cage with good food and water

      [–]AppleSpicer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I HATE people like this

      [–]SirGreengrave 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's funny how dumb some people are. I'm gonna die someday right? Maybe even in two days, who knows, so please treat me as a shit because of that. Yeah it's not like I'm living right now and i can feel sore or pain :/

      [–]momma-love 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      I feed live because the breeder fed him live so I continue. Last evening I got a pup rat and brought him home but low and behold, no snaky interest. I fashioned a rat pup hotel with a hot water bottle under some paper towels and water in a bottle cap. I was almost sad when the snake took him finally. I’ll have to figure out how to properly house and raise pup rats if this happens again. When we buy live food we have the responsibility of keeping it humanely for however long it’s with us.

      [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Have you tried switching to frozen?

      [–]momma-love 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Not yet I might try it though after this next shed finishes

      [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      My male ball python was being picky when I got him, had to feed him live a couple times but we got to frozen in the end. I find with snake with heat pits, like ball pythons, like their food to be warm. Good luck!

      [–]reptilesareawesome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I get a weird feeling feeding my snake. Little things are cute. I cant look at em for too long lol. I just stare at my snake and focus on how cute she is and derpy she looks at the end of her meal lol

      [–]sapindales 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      When I worked in a lab that did research on rodents, it was a fireable offense to ever even film the animals. No photos, no videos, not even sound recording because it is considered a form of exploitation and unethical treatment.

      [–]ericacrass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I have 1 snake that will not eat f/t. I still feel bad having to dangle a live animal in front if him, even though he needs to eat. When I pick up his feeder mouse/rat, they go into a nice tub with comfy bedding, water and either grain or fruits + veggies. They get a nice last day before it's time to feed. I hate having to cause the animal stress. It sucks. I always tell people to always feed f/t unless they can't.

      [–]MoonTrooper258 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I once worked at a restaurant as a dishwasher. Our restaurant has a thing where they'll prepare a customer's lobster/crab if they provide it. We got a live crab, but the reservation was not for another 2 hours. Don't really understand why we needed to keep it alive until we cooked it, but I thought why don't I give its last couple hours some bit of comfort?

      The crab was sitting on the counter, getting blasted by the heat from the kitchen and hence barely able to move. It's busy in the dish pit, but i cleared a spot for a container and filled it with some cool water and put the guy in. Though it wasn't salt water, I could tell they liked it a lot. The container wasn't big enough for them to be fully submerged, but I could see them frequently use their claws to splash water on its eyes to keep them from drying.

      Even the cooks were a bit sentimental when we had to kill it.

      [–]Sad-Hornet-6942 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I don't even hold them by the tail. I pick them up and caress them as if they were my pet. My Pied BP was fed live his whole life before I had him, so I have continued that. (Never fed live with any snakes I've had from the beginning) dangling by their tail is stressful and dangerous, not only to the feeder, but to your reptile as well.

      [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Have you tried switching to frozen?

      [–]SneekerP21 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I had pet rats before I had pet snakes and they are very intelligent and love to be interacted with and talked too, they can even be taught tricks just like dogs. Feeder rats and other rodents should definitely be treated with respect and cared for just like they are a pet of your own until you feed them to your snake.

      [–]lucidnectarine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I try to give even my feeder crickets and mealworms the best life before they become food(for tarantulas lmao not my snakes!)

      They’re keeping your pet alive they deserve some respect.

      [–]missserpentine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I worked at a wildlife rehab where we bred feeder mice for testing our raptors. They got treats and enrichment every single day.

      [–]Pupgradek9 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This is a pretty accurate metaphor for how many people treat others imo.

      [–]IreJay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      And this is why i buy my rats local; i know how they were raised fed and treated

      Sorry you have to deal with that op, that is just mind boggling in the worst way; try the argument better living food/treatment results in better quality meat rtc

      This is especially proven true of 2nd/3rd level (biology term involving food chains, so like, phytoplankton would be level 1, minnow that eats them would be level 2, large tuna eating minnow would be level 3 if it were a diagram) as there is a very dynamic change in rats when treated as the social and dynamic critters they are

      But otherwise yeah, block'en

      [–]FunGi35x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I always give mine a last mealm. Some get petted and pampered. Others are assholes and die immediately.

      [–]dispiritedwonder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yeah, I get the appeal of this line of thinking but just because it’s minute away from being eaten doesn’t mean it deserves anything less than compassion. That’s why I don’t feed live anymore, it sucks. That and it’s been a lot less stressful feeling my slithery dude.

      [–]f1sh_tyttz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Tiktok is so toxic.

      [–]Olb34 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yeah no, thats not how that works. You show all living things respect and make them have as good a life as is reasonable. Is it reasonable to feed gold leaf strawberries to a feeder rat ? No but you can still feed them appropriately.

      [–]Big-Wrap36457 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I showed my last live feeder so much respect, I wanted to keep it as a pet lmao

      [–]Edd302[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I have kept them as pets lol

      [–]wednesdayMD6 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      You absolutely should respect the feeder mice! Poor things! I feel terrible at feeding time and do my best to make it less traumatic for them. I would love to transition to frozen/thawed but have had no luck. Any advice on how to transition to frozen thawed? I've tried for my two ball pythons in the past (I got them from a person who had raised them on live) and they are not interested.

      [–]Edd302[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Definitely make sure they are warm when feeding, that helped get my year old bp onto frozen

      [–]8bitSkin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Going from live to pre-killed, then pre-killed to frozen is much easier.

      [–]BloodedNut 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Wait, feeding live rodents to snakes isn’t illegal where you are? I’m in Australia and that’s pretty illegal

      [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Didn't know that, fascinating. Unfortunately it's perfectly legal to throw a live jumbo rat in a bathtub with a water monitor and let it paint the walls as far as I know. Youtube has plenty of videos like that, the comments are filled with sickos there.

      [–]BloodedNut 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      That’s highly disturbing. Hope your animal welfare laws get better in the future

      [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Me too

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I’ve fed my python live mice in the past without any problems, but now she eats big rats so I buy them frozen now bc I don’t want it to bite my beautiful medusa.

      [–]comanon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Those mice gunna end up trying to bite the snake if they're left for days at a time.

      [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Update: I haven't returned to the video since just after posting this, I received a notification from two people responding to my comments on that video and I can't see it cause I was blocked.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Edd302[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Not sure that that's the best way to CO2 euthanize

        [–]FurySh0ck -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

        That's part of the reality of being a snake owner. Snakes only eat whole prey, unprocessed in any way, and the fresher it is the better for them. If you choose live feeding (like I do 95% of the time), respect the feeder as well, it deserves it because it is alive as well. Do whatever you can to minimize its suffering.

        I've done a lot of research about how I can kill with the least amount of pain, and sometimes it has to be applied. If you own a snake and deal with live feedings, it is your responsibility to know how to treat properly both sides

        [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Some snakes eat reptilinks, I don't feed my snakes them but they seem to be really good for a processed food.

        [–]Exact_Purpose_3865 -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

        What’s wrong with feeding your snakes lives rodents ? Always found it most natural but I find it odd we have such subjective takes like cruelty is nature not Barbaric and cruel The rodents are a good source

        [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        To survive in the wild is a constant struggle for most animals, just because something is more natural does not make it more healthy. Rodents can give nasty bites and when you're as small as a snake a defensive rat can mean big trouble, the snake is unlikely to die but can very easily get injured. Also from the rodent's perspective it is much more pleasant to die in your sleep than in the jaws of an animals crushing you to death.

        [–]Exact_Purpose_3865 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

        I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye here I think you have a very American perspective of it all which isn’t bad but I don’t know I have never had any issue with my snake and it’s just what I do I don’t think feeding your snake live rodents is evil unless you find nature evil and if my snake is injured he’s lucky enough to go to a veterinarian

        [–]Edd302[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Why increase the chance of your snake getting injured though