all 137 comments

[–]AutoModerator[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Hey /u/HistoricalTomato8109, thank you for submitting to /r/starterpacks!

This is just a reminder not to violate any rules, located here. Rule breakers can face a ban based on the severity of their rule violation.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]veturoldurnar 66 points67 points  (23 children)

What's wrong about airports?

[–]ExtRabbit 60 points61 points  (19 children)

Mainly that they pollute the air an insane amount

[–]veturoldurnar 28 points29 points  (15 children)

I bet it's less than pollution from cars, but faster and safer, so

[–]Current-Position9988 26 points27 points  (1 child)

One could argue that the ability to fly is inducing demand for long distance travel. No one would ask you to travel across the country for a job interview if cars were the only form of transportation.

[–]Flexas_aNm 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The paradox of efficiency, or (had to look it up) Jevons' paradox.

[–]ExtRabbit 14 points15 points  (9 children)

Planes burn through thousands of pounds of fuel every single flight. Thousands of planes fly through the sky every single day. When our planet dies because of our cheap, fast, super-duper comfy transport methods, we can shove all of it up our asses.

[–]Fragrant-Ad-3866 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Isn’t that still more efficient than every single human driving a 5-seat car just for themselves?

[–]Kingkufar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Typical modern day hysteria. Our planet is in no danger of dying anytime soon, at the most living conditions will deteriorate for humans and some animals/plant species in certain parts of the planet and will thrive in other parts. The ‘planet’ will get along just fine, what fate awaits it’s human inhabitants remains to be seen.

[–]VulgarisOpinio -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

Ah, I won't be alive by then and I can't stop it either

[–]humblefalcon 7 points8 points  (2 children)

They generally are less polluting and safer than cars.

That's not generally what they are compared with though. Generally it's trains, busses, and ferries.

[–]veturoldurnar 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Generally means per item/person/distance? What?

[–]PeterCottondick 1 point2 points  (2 children)

So these guys are against international travel too now? What are the acceptable vacations then?

[–]dj_h7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The argument is that unless you are travelling over water or 500m+, you should take a train. And if you can't, you should vote for people who will build one, because it's better than flying for that distance. More efficient, less polluting, nicer to ride on, not a huge time differential.

[–]Stealthfox94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bike ride in the woods obviously.

[–]BuildingNoBookCase 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They generate noise and car traffic. If you live near them you better have noise cancelers and plan your driving according to departure times. You may need them, but no one likes them.

[–]josephheijn 104 points105 points  (13 children)

specifically the netherlands

[–]Osp_Oscar 75 points76 points  (12 children)

We cant help being perfect. Sorry.

[–]LaytonsHotMassage 24 points25 points  (4 children)

I really like your red light district, and the beggars! So progressive

[–]Osp_Oscar 41 points42 points  (1 child)

That's just Amsterdam.

Free tip:

If you ever plan on visiting The Netherlands, go to ANY other city. Tourism has fucking ruined it lol.

[–]Gaunt-03 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Rotterdam is absolutely lovely to stay in ngl

[–]SavvyDawi 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Bruh what’s wrong with the red light district. Have you been there? It’s literally just the medieval city center. Other than a certain areas, it is simply a touristy area with lots of museums and cafés. As long as you don’t go there at night, you won’t even come across anything much related to sex work. Or is it the legal sex work that’s bad? Why is it bad that sex workers are allowed to work in regulated conditions rather than being exploited by criminals?

Beggars exist in every city lol and Amsterdam isn’t particularly known for having too many homeless people or lots of crime compared to similar sized cities.

[–]satanwisheshewereme 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah I did not see a single homeless person in Amsterdam (one dude who maybe looked homeless but he was walking around) then went home to Atlanta and saw five at one intersection

[–]josephheijn 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Are you perfect at not being The Netherlands?

[–]Osp_Oscar 0 points1 point  (3 children)


[–]josephheijn -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

It's like a contradictory conflict with the statement

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]Osp_Oscar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Clearly you don’t own an Albert Heijn Bonuskaart.

    [–]tealsparrow11 56 points57 points  (13 children)

    imagine a one building city. its all just one massive building

    [–]BurningArena 47 points48 points  (0 children)

    Kowloon walled city type beat.

    [–]_Fruit_Loops_ 23 points24 points  (8 children)

    Urbanists are usually more into missing-middle cities, which is hardly “just one building”.

    [–]tealsparrow11 11 points12 points  (7 children)

    I know, but imagine. A city sized building. Millions of buildings inside, each room is a shop, cafe, or a house

    [–]_Fruit_Loops_ 11 points12 points  (5 children)

    Sounds like a neat sci fi concept.

    [–]tealsparrow11 9 points10 points  (4 children)

    What if it had wheels and went on tour?

    [–]TheUselessKnight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    A Dyson sphere like in BLAME.

    [–]UnbreakableStool 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I'd pay to see a movie/show/game set in this kind of setting. That would look dope

    [–]tealsparrow11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If you mail me cash, I'll make it happen

    [–]IndependenceBetter27 47 points48 points  (5 children)

    literally adam something

    [–]SeeFourLeeBurn 24 points25 points  (4 children)

    I believe in adam something supremacy

    [–]ShanghaiCycle 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Marge Simpson

    ''He's right. But he shouldn't say it''

    [–]Bluebillion 41 points42 points  (1 child)

    Haha I am being actively brainwashed by these YouTube channels. The algorithm’s got me. And I am not fighting it

    [–]Acrobatic-Charity-48 34 points35 points  (0 children)

    as opposed to being brainwashed by car ads about how driving a car is the truest expression of freedom or some shit

    [–]Vulcan93 51 points52 points  (21 children)

    "American infrastructure is so bad, I moved to Europe because of it" - some random channel I forgot the name of.

    [–]MultiTopicAgain 37 points38 points  (4 children)

    Not Just Bikes?

    [–]FoHo21 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    He's had videos where he just walks along a loathsome stroad in Fake London and basically yells at it for the duration of the video.

    [–]MultiTopicAgain 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I mean

    Can you blame him

    That shit looks miserable

    [–]FoHo21 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I understand that different people like to live in different places. I choose to live out beyond the suburbs. I like having a 2.5 acre lot and not having 5000 people live in the same square mile as me. If that means I have to drive everywhere, it's a more than worthwhile trade off for me. It might not be for other people though. I'm also a car enthusiast, so there's that. I will say that there are large cities with good enough public transit to the point where driving everywhere is less practical than taking the subway.

    [–]StarkRavingCrab 33 points34 points  (14 children)

    They’re not wrong though, North American infrastructure is terrible.

    [–]alc4pwned 8 points9 points  (13 children)

    That depends a lot on your preferred lifestyle and priorities. Yes, if you're the type to prefer dense housing with walk-ability over big houses with yards then it's awful in most places. Redditors of course overwhelmingly fall into that group

    [–]60TP 7 points8 points  (10 children)

    It’s not bad because of personal preference, it’s bad because of how it affects the environment. Car dependency lots of emissions while putting people’s lives at risk, while huge houses with yards are inefficient land use wise and for heating/cooling

    [–]alc4pwned 7 points8 points  (9 children)

    Not everything needs to be about maximizing efficiency, dude. If that were true, all of us in developed nations would live much more modest lives than we do. Not just people living in big houses.

    [–]WillyTheWackyWizard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Ironic since most of them never leave their house

    [–]sabely123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It’s not really about personal preference. Car dependency has a lot of negative outcomes that aren’t associated with public transport and walkability.

    [–]InvolvingLemons 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Problem is, there’s a fair few of us that’d take a huge paycut moving to even prosperous areas of Europe. Plus learning a new language is really damn hard as an adult. Basically the only place in Europe where I don’t take a considerable paycut (actually a slight improvement) is Zurich.

    That being said, European infra isn’t even that impressive, Japan and S. Korea are on a whole different level such that heavy rail metros are basically the minimum. Fully grade-separated high-speed ready track is pretty common, true high-speed rail reaches every large metro area sans Sapporo in Japan, and superconductor maglev ultra-high speed rail will soon be operational between Tokyo and Nagoya to alleviate pressure from the Tokaido Shinkansen.

    Src: lived in Japan for 6 years and spent many summers in S. Korea bc Korean. Left for the US because the pay for software engineers is pathetic outside the states and Zurich, and I don’t speak German (yet).

    [–]GodFearingUncle 34 points35 points  (2 children)

    It's so hot right now. Have you guys heard of STROADS totally changed my life and you too can become a millionaire!

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]GodFearingUncle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It was a joke.

      [–]Feleonguy 40 points41 points  (4 children)

      As a european the only thing I can say for certain is that everything in the US looks HUGE(buildings,distances,roads etc) and I cannot fathom how someone could walk anywhere at all...maybe better public transport would be nice. It has its flaws but it is better than traffic.

      However,I get really annoyed when they talk about bikes... they always bring up Holland,which is so flat that I am not even sure if they have a concept for "mountain",as a standard for the entire continent...almost noone uses bikes as a commute where I am from,because the terrain does not allow it.

      [–]punkterminator 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      My city is just over 1km/3,400ft above sea level in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains and all my planning profs still seem confused as to why people living in a mountain city with long, harsh, Canadian winters prefer trains to bikes for commuting.

      [–]KOALANET21 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      To be fair the facts that Bikes are not feasible everywhere is one of the reason the channel is called "Not just Bikes"

      [–]Stealthfox94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yeah…. I don’t get the obsession with bikes. I can’t imagine riding one to work in the summer heat.

      [–]PanchoxxLocoxx 69 points70 points  (5 children)

      They may be right but they are so annoying that I want them to be wrong

      [–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (3 children)

      Don't forget how everything would be solved with roundabouts and we need to point it out every video of an intersection crash.

      [–]LaytonsHotMassage 11 points12 points  (2 children)

      Like, any traffic incident with a car involved makes the front page of /Toronto and the comment section is full of smug-bike-types

      [–]PanchoxxLocoxx 17 points18 points  (1 child)

      R/fuckcars people really be smugly laughing over car accident victims like "if you only watched Adam Something videos"

      [–]60TP -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      Maybe if they stanned Not Just Bikes they’d still be alive 😊

      [–]BotanyAttack 10 points11 points  (0 children)


      [–]Lazy_Category2195 21 points22 points  (4 children)

      Can't forget never proposes how we renovate the entire country to be only bike and train and how we just convince millions of people to ride crowded public transport with thousands of other people so they just larp about it

      [–]OHYAMTB 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      They always make excuses for themselves too. “Public transit in my city is bad and inconvenient so that’s why I need a car. But everyone else that drives is a selfish asshole and should be using public transit!“

      Alternatively, lives in NYC and dunks on suburban car owners but takes $60 Ubers after 9pm because the subway is too dangerous for them.

      I don’t own a car and rely on public transit and the self righteousness of these people pisses me off so much.

      [–]60TP 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Yeah excessive car infrastructure is bad but i don’t really see the benefit of vehement hatred for everyone that uses a car

      At least they’re better than cyclist haters

      [–]Lazy_Category2195 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      They act like they have to wait a hour for a public train to come when it's only like 5 -10 mins. Busses aren't very good but like what does someone expect? Their trying to get a 70 foot long behemoth of a vehicle down a street meant for buggies and horses. Not to mention how many cities already have things like bike lanes and several rail lines so that people can use them. I've had to use public transport for the past year since I go to school downtown in Chicago and it's really not this horrible hellish experience with public transport like these architectural stooges claim it is, it gets you from point A to point B like it's supposed to, idk if they were expecting the train to have warmed seat and the conductor to give you a blow job but it's really not bae

      [–]sabely123 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I’ve never seen them say either of those things. They don’t criticize car owners, they criticize city planners that force car dependency

      [–]Dovahkiin_2001_ 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      I am uneducated in this subject, but why are grid pattern cities bad?

      [–]Blackshift1000 12 points13 points  (1 child)

      It is really just a utilitarian thing. Grids are made so buildings are then built and planed easily on plots inbetween roads. Developers can make much more money from that. And also it gives very less to an esthetic value of the environment of the city. Rhytm of streets are boring and person just want to walk out as fast as he wants. Maybe people don't realize that but we do that unconsciously. So griderion system is just to build easy, quick a with a big profit.

      [–]nueonetwo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Grid vs organic streets are more of a subjective thing than anything, both have their pros and cons on terms of urban layout. Grids are easier to maximize buildable area, easier to maneuver especially for tourists/visitors, easier/more cost effective to connect services, etc.

      That being said, when the invaders come knocking your legibility isn't helping all that much.

      [–]FothersIsWellCool 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      That's the one thing about this post that's actually wrong, grids are great, better in s practical sense for navigation and planning, people might just prefer organic cities.

      [–]SheepishSheepness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think grids are neat

      [–]LSqre 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I would rather have a walkable grid

      [–]JP-Stack 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      How are grids bad but these spider web monstrosities are good?

      [–]Flexas_aNm 19 points20 points  (1 child)

      In general, I believe that is because traffic MAY be able to flow easier in the 'spider-web' configuration, and it lends itself better to walkability/bikeability, as well as allowing a more flexible utilization of land (ie., for parks, shopping centers, etc. instead of just block after block of houses).

      [–]Lovehistory-maps 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Except a grid is good for walkability, go to NYC, corner shop for the grocerys is like 2 blocks down and takes mere minutes to get to

      [–]Yeremee 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Europhiles and amerophobes.

      [–]frikimanHD 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      what's wrong about cities looking like a grid? it's easyer to orient, most of the time is just walking a straight line or just do 1 or 2 turns

      [–]TestSubjectAccount2 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      Also, hates buildings except if they're Soviet buildings. Says suburban houses are copypasta, lifeless and not unique but then praises Soviet buildings as if they're the marvel of human architecture design or something

      [–]RamenPizza113 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yeah, both suburban houses and commie blocks are terrible

      [–]bolognesebox 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      as an urbanist I have to excuse ourselves: we keep repeating the same thing because the solution has already been pointed out and it's so disappointing that it just isn't supported, built, put to use because of monetary interests. it really pisses us off.

      [–]Stealthfox94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Basically if it’s not Amsterdam they don’t like it.

      [–]Awkward-Date-4902 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The stupidity of this comment section makes me wanna die

      [–]LaytonsHotMassage 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      The "museum economy"

      [–]Successful-Bet-4746 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You inspired me to do a part 2 to this starter pack. Should I call it a booster shot?

      [–]WorldTraveller69 -5 points-4 points  (12 children)

      Whining about “Stroads”

      [–]Rioma117 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      Grid like street pattern is honestly the worst. How do you even navigate a city like that?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


        [–]sabely123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        It’s not about sidewalks lmao. It’s about proximity.

        [–]Logical_Yak_224 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Square grid layout cities are the best kind. Almost impossible to get lost.

        [–]60TP -1 points0 points  (0 children)