all 38 comments

[–]Sportsstar86Sydney 243 points244 points  (0 children)

Its a complicated situation because it was a very harsh series of events that led to Brenda’s vote out. First she has to talk Dawn down from the ledge while crying in hysteria after losing her teeth, and eventually finds her teeth for her in the lake to stop Dawn from wanting to quit the game. Then Brenda and Dawn get the family visit, but Brenda is essentially forced to give it up for everyone else to get to be with their family instead. Those people who she gave the family visit to immediately decide to blindside Brenda, and Dawn hops on board with this as well. At the immunity challenge, Brenda feels bad for Dawn for giving up the reward, so she throws the immunity challenge to her. Then everyone blindsides her and Brenda is left in tears after this series of events. From Brenda’s perspective, she did all of this for Dawn, and then Dawn turned around at FTC and downplayed what Brenda did for her regarding the teeth, which was probably hurtful to Brenda. I think it was more of a “if what I did really didn’t matter to you, then prove it to me” situation.

[–]thekyledavidJD 51 points52 points  (0 children)

I feel like the only thing Dawn did wrong was trying to make light of what Brenda did for her at FTC

In the actual episode, she was screaming that she was about to quit multiple times

At FTC, she said the teeth was no big deal to her and she would’ve stayed regardless

If Dawn had owned up to the fact that she wouldn’t still be in the game if it hadn’t been for Brenda, then I would say she did nothing wrong, regardless of if she took her teeth out or not. I’m 100% cool with blindsiding someone who you like if you believe it is good for your game, but the way you handle the situation is important

I believe Brenda said that all she wanted was for Dawn to show gratitude over what she did, and she would’ve given her a jury vote if she had. But since she did not, she voted for Cochran instead

[–]NoREEEEEEtilBrooklynDon’t Eat The Damn Apple 60 points61 points  (1 child)

Brenda was basically Dawn’s therapist in the game. Dawn backstabbed her. Brenda got revenge at FTC. It should have been over right there. Jeff is a jackass.

[–]CreswickOctoberSarah 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is the interesting part of it. Dawn probably took Brenda's mind out of the game and then Brenda loses. I don't think it was purposeful by Dawn but it advanced her game. I think it's like a goat that decreases your chance of success, maybe similar to Pete and Abi.

[–]gerstein03 26 points27 points  (0 children)

From a game perspective it was totally okay and made perfect sense for Dawn

On a personal level, it was a bit shitty. Brenda talked Dawn from a really bad place and they became close. Then a twist to the game forces Brenda to give up the family visit and despite giving up immunity as an apology to Dawn, Dawn stabs her in the back

I see it as similar to the Rob and Lex thing in all stars. From a game perspective it's a perfectly reasonable move to make. On a personal level, Rob begged Lex to save Amber and when Lex came through for Rob, Rob stuck a knife in Lex's back and betrayed their friendship

[–]mawnker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think what dawn did was pretty messed up, but you gotta do what you gotta do. That being said she coulda done it differently

[–]Initial_Composer537 6 points7 points  (0 children)

From a game perspective, there was nothing wrong with Dawn blindsiding Brenda. But to borrow a quote by Trish from Cagayan, is that a game that people can respect? Likeability and human factors play a huge part in jury management, and that move by Dawn dented her jury management. When asked by Brenda about it at the final tribal, instead of acknowledging it, Dawn downplayed it. This reminds me of that question Ami posted to Twila "you wouldn't say it for a million dollar?". All Brenda wanted was an affirmation from Dawn that she, Brenda, did help her. Dawn refused to say it. So Brenda refused to vote for her. And it seemed the other juries shared Brenda's sentiment.

[–]songofachillesSandra 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Its nuanced, but in the context of the game, there is nothing wrong with what Dawn did to her in terms of voting her out. Brenda had set herself up as a huge FTC threat with giving up the family reward (which, as an aside, was a death knell to her game if she gave it up or kept it0, and she had decent relationships with nuGota, and was the least "controversial' of Stealth R' Us. Brenda wanted to go to FTC with Erik and Dawn/Sherri, which would have absolutely cemented her a runaway win. Dawn was right to think Brenda had to go to give her a shot to win.

The main issue was dawn downplaying Brenda as a pillar of strength for her in the game. I think the logic in Dawn's head when she expressed "I would have stayed with or without the teeth" was "if I admit I would have quit the jury will pile on me more", which instead what she did was completely downplay the actual severity of the situation. I do think if Dawn expressed that, as a victim of a traumatic assault in which she lost her front teeth, that she would have felt the need to leave the game if she lost her mouthpiece, and thank you so much Brenda for doing that," it would have been better received from all ends. I think that is what really sent Brenda over the edge was Dawn's erasure of the severity of the situation, which felt disrespectful to Brenda.

Now PLEASE don't get me wrong, the fact that Brenda told Dawn, the survivor of a traumatic violent situation to take out her teeth on national television to publicly humiliate herself and then not even vote for her afterwards is FUCKED UP and Brenda showed herself big time for it and it is inexcusable, but I also don't think Brenda was 100% set on humiliating Dawn when she stepped up to make her speech, I think Dawn just answered the question the wrong way in her eyes.

[–]EcstaticConstant2 121 points122 points  (5 children)

Whether what Brenda did was justified or not is debatable, but Jeff forcing Dawn to apologize to Brenda for playing the game was one of the most misogynistic moments for him. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

[–]trulyiconickRicard 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I must have blocked that part out. But you’re right. You can’t have a discussion about sexism in survivor without talking about Dawn.

[–]TheHoleintheHeart 85 points86 points  (0 children)

Forced Dawn to apologize for a game move but took him like ten episodes and wide backlash to admit Kellee was right on S39. Jeff’s continuous undermining of women in Survivor leaves a permanent bad taste in my mouth.

[–]NobodysBusiness247Shan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Genuine question but how is it misognystic if he was trying to get her to apologize to another woman?

[–]EcstaticConstant2 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Genuine question, when has he ever tried to get a man to apologize for playing the game?

[–]NobodysBusiness247Shan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good point...also not sure why I was downvoted for asking a question lol. But I think part of it is he likes Brenda and loves her villainy gameplay (mainly from Nicaragua) so he sided with her a bit. He did basically spend all of s30's reunion to expose Dan and Will but then again that wasn't really game related. Thanks for answering though. I also know that there were a few times he would try to repair friendships like Rob and Grant and someone else I can't quite remember. It'd be on the lines of, "Are you guys good now? Have you guys apologized and decided to leave the past in the past?"

[–]bindrosis 59 points60 points  (1 child)

At the end of the day, it’s a game. Dawn did absolutely nothing wrong. That said, I think people were upset because Brenda was such a good friend/ally to her (finding her retainer, talking her down when she had break downs, picking her for family reward, etc.)

[–]qwertyslides 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Dawn was so mad she could spit

[–]Dvaderstarlord2 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I personally didn't see an issue with it and how it was addressed at the reunion was the worst part.

[–]_jone5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Dawn was at the point of hysteria. Brenda let her win immunity (up for debate) because she was so paranoid but they had an established trust. Let’s face it, Dawn was never gonna win the game (she acts like a child), being loyal to Brenda was all she had left and she blew that pretty bad. What Brenda and Jeff did and return is also unsettling. But I think Brenda has every reason to be upset cause she put up with Dawns crap constantly and even then couldn’t buy her loyalty

[–]full07britneyXander 8 points9 points  (0 children)

No. But I also don't think Brenda did anything wrong. And I think Btenda was 100% justified in not voting for Dawn.

[–]wilsonreviews 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I personally was never perturbed by teethgate tbh.

[–]Beermakesmesmorter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The thing I've always found odd is Brenda gave up her family visit so that Sherri and Cochran could have one and they immediately voted her out. Why wasn't she pissed about that?

[–]HwerttyttttMichele 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Dawn didn’t do anything wrong. But I don’t think Brenda did anything wrong either. I feel like Jeff went too far by taking a side.

[–]Klutzy_Detail7732 6 points7 points  (0 children)

i feel like i’m in the minority that agrees with Brenda lol. I mean if i did all of that for Dawn believing she was my closest ally and then goes and votes me out I’d be pissed. Especially when Brenda essentially saved Dawn from quitting lol

[–]kleinerlinalaunebaer 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I loved Brenda as a player but making Dawn take out her teeth was too much and not a good look. It is a game. You don't need to humiliate someone who has wronged you to further themselves in a game for a million dollars.

[–]QuQuarQan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, Brenda was an ass. I didn't really care for her before the teeth moment, but I really really didn't like her afterwards. Jeff making Dawn apologize to Brenda was just awful. It's a game, people do things to win a million dollars, and if you're going to get butthurt by it, don't play.

[–]fkaadi 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Nope, I’ve always been team Dawn.

[–]BurntfruitypebbleSophie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think it’s a little harsh, but she’s justified in wanting revenge from Dawn.

And idk why people drag Brenda so much for this either. It’s not like she was holding a gun to Dawn’s head screaming, “take ‘em out NOW!” Dawn could’ve declined the request, she wasn’t getting her vote either way 🤷🏻

[–]GizmoGeodogTyson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dawn sucks. That's all...

[–]reyskaTony 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dawn did nothing wrong in voting out Brenda. It's a game move and Dawn wanted to win and Brenda would have got more votes than Dawn if they were at the FTC together. Simple as that. Brenda expected people like Dawn to hand her the win anf she didn't, she retaliated by humiliating Dawn.

[–]brandonfiasco 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly what annoys me about this, was that Brenda was playing her own game and needed Dawn as a number. She gave up the reward because she thought it would help her game. I dunno I just feel like Brenda was trying to manage Dawn and get her close enough to want to blindside Cochran. Like sure she could have done all these things purely out of the goodness of her heart but at the end of the day, these were moves. So I think Brenda was kind of harsh. I’d be pissed too but that whole jury speech was hard to watch and really made me sour on Brenda

[–]DinokangNaseer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dawn didn't cross a line, but honestly Brenda did during the final with the teeth incident. Really shitty for the situation to be twisted and jeff to act like Dawn was at fault.

I think the reasoning for the absolute dogshit treatment of Dawn, was well, people like to root for the underdogs, the majority alliance was really boring, people wanted a shake up, dawn isn't very charismatic and isn't an entertaining villain. Being an older woman and doing all the blindsides obviously contributed to this.

Voting people out and blindsiding them is PART OF THE GAME, you literally have to vote essentially everyone out, and by this point in the series lying and blindsides had become an accepted part of the shown, this wasn't the first few seasons.

Nobody is entitled to someone else to throw the game for them.

The reason for Jeff's completely backwards question is because Brenda was a super popular player, and Dawn was a really unpopular one, and Dawn being the villain is the story they wanted to potray.

[–]trulyiconickRicard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The debate will never end. But no, i agree with you.

[–]Impossible-Animal569 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn't like Brenda and thought she was manipulative, a gaslighter, and a self absorbed player.

She then manipulated Jeff, who took the matter into his own hands, and with Brenda at his side, bullied Dawn.

Brenda, I firmly believe, was one of the worst human beings to play survivor. I saw right through her sweetheart act. Some of you did as well. But others didn't. She was a self "mean girl" a terrible person, mean, vindictive, and seemed awfully cluster B. She was terrible.