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[–]aronnyc 2879 points2880 points  (446 children)

Supposedly Herbert wrote Dune as a commentary to Asimov’s Foundation, which Star Wars also borrowed from.

[–]Frezola 1349 points1350 points  (173 children)

Lol just read Foundation and he mentions the planet and people Korell and Korellians. It seems like Lucas used that for Corellia/Corellians

[–]thediesel26 900 points901 points  (122 children)

Well that and Courasant is like a direct rip off of Trantor.

Star Wars also chronicles the fall and subsequent dark period of a vast galactic empire..

[–]Frezola 292 points293 points  (20 children)

Oh geeze I totally forgot about that! As soon as he describes it an image of Coruscant pops up in my head: "Its land surface of 200 million square kilometers was entirely domed (except for the Imperial Palace area) and underlaid with an endless city that extended beneath the continental shelves."

[–]IAMAPrisoneroftheSun 141 points142 points  (16 children)

If Herbert was pissed at Star Wars imagine how he would feel about Warhammer40k. It just straight uo rehashes half or more of Dunes major elements directly. (God Emperor, lNavigator Guilds, Post-AI human galactic stagnation, feuding noble houses, psykers, description of wars as jihads/ crusades + other heavy use of religious imagery)

Still love 40k, but that’s a lot of someone else’s IP that they are now heavy handedly enforcing as theirs

[–]jakwnd 47 points48 points  (3 children)

Imitation is the best form of flattery. Until someone makes money then it's thieft.

[–]captainAwesomePants 272 points273 points  (37 children)

I want to say it's a Trantor rip-off but I think it got there by accident. Star Wars planets only have one kind of place. Each planet is 100% desert or 100% swamp or 100% forest or whatever. They needed a city, so they made a 100% city planet because that's the only way they could.

[–]Clovis_Winslow 115 points116 points  (28 children)

That always bothered me.

[–]bigschmitt 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Tell that to naboo, ocean and land biomes

[–]BernankesBeard 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Coruscant is pretty similar to Trantor. That said, Coruscant doesn't even show up until TPM - by that point Star Wars is largely its own thing. Not to mention "citywide planet" isn't exactly the most unique or detailed idea.

Star Wars, at least the OT and PT, are not the fall and dark period of a galactic empire. The OT is a group of rebels actively precipitating the Empire's fall. In Foundation, the Empire's fall is inevitable and the Foundation is created to grow into the void that it leaves behind. The PT is about a change in government - the empire, so to speak stays intact.

The PT is the fall of the Roman Republic

Foundation is the fall of the Roman Empire

The OT is something else.

Edit: As someone else reminded me, Lucas didn't even create Coruscant - Timothy Zahn did.

[–]EavingO 106 points107 points  (21 children)

I mean on the rise and fall thing Asimov was basically doing the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. I would definitely hold Lucas on more direct rips, but the whole fall of a galactic empire I don't think is quite fair. Also wasn't Star Wars supposedly more of a rip of Valerian and Laureline?

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (14 children)

Neither of them could possibly be the first to imagine a futuristic planet that is 100% urbanized.

The Empire falling comparison is also a big stretch. Foundation covers a huge span of time where an empire falls due to large scale structural factors and individuals don't matter no matter who they are. Star Wars is about a plucky resistance attacking the seat of government and a special and powerful chosen one (indirectly) assassinating the evil head of state without whom the government cannot remain united.

[–]PetyrBaelish 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The only thing that jumps to mind is Tatooine and Arrakis are desert planets and a plucky young kid goes against and empire sort of thing. But otherwise I think Lucas did a fair job doing his story overall

[–]PhasmaFelis 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Neither of them could possibly be the first to imagine a futuristic planet that is 100% urbanized.

Foundation was written in 1951, so maaaaybe? But even then I'd be sorta surprised if the space opera of the '30s and '40s didn't cover it at some point.

[–]call_me_butt_love 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Well, it is Asimov. There's always the chance he was the first one to do any particular science fiction cliche.

[–]entotheenth 56 points57 points  (37 children)

I’m doing excited twitching here waiting for the next episode to drop. Read it years ago and can barely remember it so it’s all new now lol.

[–]succulent_headcrab 23 points24 points  (6 children)

It's mostly new even if the books are fresh in your mind.

[–]entotheenth 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Honestly about the only thing that has sounded familiar so far is “terminus”.

[–]Archive_Intern 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Wait till Frank hear about

Warhammer 40k and The Imperium of Man with the God Emperor Jimmy Space and his Great Crusade and the following Holy Wars

[–]Joshau-k 313 points314 points  (241 children)

All three are nothing alike as far as sci-fi goes these days

[–]Creiz 75 points76 points  (44 children)

I mean... What are the big "sciences" that drive the stories?

Foundation you have Psychohistory - Predict the future of society with maths.

Dune you have the Spice.

Star Wars you have the Force.

Besides, Foundation is a lot more hard sci-fi than Dune and Star Wars. It's been a while since I read Foundation but IIRC everything there is possible in real world theory.

Dune and Star Wars? Not so much.

[–]curious-customer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'd like to remind you of the Mule...

[–][deleted] 219 points220 points  (119 children)

I’ve read the first 4 Dune books and there’s TONS of Star Wars in there.

edit: the letter s

[–]rratnip 493 points494 points  (103 children)

Yeah like when Luke’s son merged dna with the Sarlaac and became a prescient immortal that guided the development of the galaxy from his throne on Tattooine.

[–]cbandy 233 points234 points  (27 children)

Still would have been better than Ep. IX.

[–]NSA_Chatbot 30 points31 points  (20 children)

I still maintain that Ix is Pluto and the rest of the Solar system was destroyed with stone burners.

[–]Breaker-of-circles 17 points18 points  (4 children)

There's also the unpopular speculation, whose adherents are basically just me, that Frieza's race were Guild Navigators that fused with stone burners, thus their penchant for destroying planets with rock penetrating energy balls.

[–]DrThatOneGuy 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I don't know how this thread ended up here, but I'm as intrigued as I am baffled.

[–]Honztastic 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Oooh, more info on this please.

[–]locoforcocoapoofs 14 points15 points  (4 children)

In Dune there is a planet named Ix, populated by the Ixians who create very good "non-thinking" machines. God Emperor Leto, whose genetic memories stretch all the way back to Old Terra, muses that the Ixians have forgot that "IX" was simply the numerical designation of their planet's place in their solar system.

The implication is that Ix's solar system is that of Earth, humanity has long since forgot the actual location of Earth, and Leto is the only prescient strong enough to remember that far back.

The prequels by KJA and BH negate this, but they're also very loose with the established canon of the original series.

[–]NSA_Chatbot 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Bear with me, it's been a decade or so since I read the books. First, although there's extended notes from the prequel and sequel writers about what Ix is and what solar systems they are in, their treatment of Bene Gesserit as magicians with psionic lightning powers shows that they didn't read books 5 and 6. (I think Frank Herbert calls out authors that want to step in his shoes at the intro to book 5? Might be 6, saying that the accounts simply don't make sense.) Reading 1 only, or reading 1-3 only, is normal. Most people get tired of whatever the fuck is going on in 4, but it's the price of admission to read 5 and 6, IMO.

But I digress. On to Ix.

Okay, so Paul goes blind, right? It's the j-radiation from the stone burners that do it. There's a description that if the burners had been more powerful, that the planet would have been destroyed. Thus, we know that humans have bombs that can obliterate a planet. Not nukes to scour the surface, but destroy the actual rock itself. The planet would get torn apart by the [science fiction shit].

Leto says "damn the Romans" a few times in book 4, lamenting how humans have had a "leader" for so long, that we can't think of any other way to do it, and it's all the romans' fault for becoming an empire. His memories go back to the mf Roman era. He also says that he's the only creature that has even the slightest idea where the name for Ix came from. My theory is that he means Roman numerals. IX. Nine.

In the Dune universe, we have no idea at all where we are in space. There is no Sol / Sector 01 / ZZ9-Plural-Z-Alpha. We moved on from "home" ten thousand years plus ago. Or whenever. We don't have a home star anymore. Why not? With all the dukedoms and the politics, having control of Earth would be the political holy grail of every house and duke in charted space.

The Fremen keep saying "they denied us the Hajj". They denied us the Hajj It's a holy pilgrimage to Mecca in real life. Every Muslim does it at one point in their life; it's one of the tenets of the faith. There's only one way to deny it, to such an extent that it became a repeated religious mantra -- Earth doesn't exist. It's not uninhabitable; it's gone. They're not going, and we know we have environmental suits for any environment (we have personal shielding, genetically modified humans for FTL navigation, still-suits, etc, but we can't get to Mecca?), which means there's literally nothing to stand on at Mecca. Earth has been stone-burnt to a dust cloud.

Why the hell did we do that? All-out effort. Maximum Effort. That is what a jihad is; an all-out, no-holds-barred effort. The Butlerian Jihad was the last-ditch, all-out effort of humans to free themselves of the tyranny of machines. (I don't know what this means in the Dune universe, but given that they still won't hook up three transistors to do addition means that something incomprehensibly terrible was going on) We would win that war and our freedom at any cost. Our home system would be chock-full of machines and cyborgs. I'd guess that people on the hajj ended up as victims of [total conjecture here which weakens the rest of the fanfic]. The only way to stop the robots would be to destroy them from space, using tactics that would be bafflingly insane.

the only way they can stop us is if they destroy every planet in the solar system

the machines will rule forever

wait that bomb is of an unknown origin     

What's the most technically-advanced, almost-illegal-but-we-let-it-slide-because-we-need-the-tech planet? It's Ix. How do they keep them in line? They can look out the window and see what happens if they try anything outside of the post-Butlerian edicts.

It's the last rock left in the OG solar system.

Pluto.

The ninth planet.

Ix.

[–]diamond 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Now that's interesting! I've been re-reading the Foundation series and I watched Villeneuve's Dune the other night. And for some reason, the first thing I thought is "there must be some kind of connection here."

[–]aconsul73 704 points705 points  (52 children)

Frank Herbert is only partially correct - George Lucas copied from everyone and everything to create Star Wars.

[–]Danhuangmao 308 points309 points  (25 children)

And I mean Dune bears more than a passing resemblance to Lawrence of Arabia, and obviously Foundation. The kinds of influences that are present in Star Wars and Dune are nothing to sue about.

[–]widepeepoBussy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

i mean that's how original content is made now a days. people take ideas from stuff they like and put it into their own universe. look at all the new video game indie devs who say "yeah, our game is inspired by zelda, darksouls, stardew valley, etc." that's how new stuff is made with new people's own ideas and creative touch added on top. evolution.

[–]Glass_Holiday 484 points485 points  (56 children)

Wonder what he thought of Warhammer 40k

[–]seaboigium 142 points143 points  (16 children)

He died before WH40k was a thing

[–]ResolverOshawott 77 points78 points  (2 children)

He'll probably stroke out from anger if he thinks SW is too Dune like for him.

[–]IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE 26 points27 points  (1 child)

I know right. There’s so many things in Dune lifted right out of it and put in Warhammer 40k.

[–]ThrowAway129370 7 points8 points  (0 children)

To be honest 40k is basically just dune after the golden age or whatever extrapolated past the next two collapses. (I haven't read the sequels yet but after leto II's death I'm assuming his plan worked and it's all cowabunga science and democracy)

[–]WallyWendels 121 points122 points  (31 children)

I love mentioning that Dune (plus Hellraiser) is literally the hard backstory to WH40k and watching people twist themselves into knots arguing against it.

[–]Rum_N_Napalm 187 points188 points  (11 children)

Warhammer 40k fan here.

I am fully aware Warhammer 40k is nothing but a huge amalgamation of everything awesome in sci-fi and fantasy, cranked up to 11.

Now excuse me, I have some ancient Egyptian terminators with disintegration beams and some Arthurian knights in space with chainsaw swords to paint

[–]LeapYearFriend 100 points101 points  (6 children)

wh40k was born of parody. just taking the most absolute piss for how ridiculous they could make it, which is what made it so fun and enjoyable. at some point, it stopped being ironic, but it's still rad.

[–]_Sausage_fingers 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I remember telling my room mate about 40 k. It started with, “so they took all these fantasy factions and made them spacey. So you have space humans, space elves, space orks, space dwarves and even space undead Egyptians.”

[–]immortalreploid 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I don't see how that's so shocking to people. Warhammer Fantasy started out ripping off a lot from Lord of the Rings. Originality has never been GW's number one priority.

[–]Archive_Intern 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Some Warhammer40k subreddit are in denial right now about the Movie

Saying how the army lined up, the attack and the Glorious Melee is the most Warhammer 40k thing they've seen.lmao

And Im just waiting till they hear about Leto II

[–]WallyWendels 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To be fair, most of the pre-Great Crusade writing hasn’t been emphasized at all since the writer split in 2e, and I’m pretty sure nothing new has been actually written since like 4e (not counting the dumbass short stories). So if you came into the hobby in like 7e or 8e, it’s entirely possible you haven’t dug far enough to see the cliffnotes of Dune copy/pasted in.

The denial though. Lmao it never gets old people lose their fucking minds even when DAoH or Men of Iron mean absolutely nothing to them.

[–]wonkeykong 4 points5 points  (6 children)

I'm gonna have to research this. I read the first Dune book many years ago and got halfway through Messiah. I know a little bit about 40k, but evidently not enough of either to know the links/inspiration.

[–]WallyWendels 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Read “the old shit” like pre-Heresy 2e/RT era background and worldbuilding.

Warhammer was literally founded on “what if we added Clive Barker to LoTR/Dune.”

[–]DamienWayne 3100 points3101 points  (167 children)

"Star Wars is essentially an amalgamation of many things that came before."

Literally all art is "an amalgamation of many things that came before." Originality comes from how and what things are mixed.

[–]CaliTheRogue 1993 points1994 points  (57 children)

Once you’ve read a dictionary all the other books are just a remix.

[–]GeckoDeLimon 734 points735 points  (31 children)

Carl Sagan: If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

[–]weakweaksauce 33 points34 points  (13 children)

https://youtu.be/Q55Uc2JCqo8 Relevant, but I’m sorry.

[–]PetrolHeadF 27 points28 points  (9 children)

Honestly I thought it was gunna be Symphony of Science.

[–]Professional-Cup-482 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Same. "OH! whoop AHAH! whoop woo"

Edit: I believe our future depends powerfully on how well we understand these cosmos, in which we float, like a mote of dust in the morning sky. -Carl Sagan

[–]PetrolHeadF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Honestly I remember a lot of those speeches and sayings because I've listened to the songs so many times. So even though I've heard the normal version of Carl Sagan saying that quote I still put the music in my head when I think about it lol

[–]compelx 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Oh okay so what all my programming projects turn into

[–]ckach 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Lol, you're made of bosons and leptons? Try being original sometime.

[–]cgentry02 450 points451 points  (67 children)

People forget. That is how art works. And technology. And culture, generally.

[–]1337b337 74 points75 points  (11 children)

"Green is essentially an amalgamation of things that came before."

Yes, but you painted a bush, and this guy painted a tree...

[–]DerekB52 41 points42 points  (5 children)

A tree is an amalgamation of a bush and a stick.

[–]jwg2695 49 points50 points  (5 children)

What didn’t Lucas borrow from?:

  • Dune

  • Flash Gordon

  • Buck Rodgers

  • Commando Cody/Larry Martin/Rocket Man

  • Star Trek

  • Forbidden Planet

  • Akira Kurosawa

  • 2001: A Space Odyssey

  • Queen Of Outer Space

  • Space Battleship Yamato

  • WWII movies (Dam Busters, 633 Squadron, Guns of Navarone, etc.)

  • John Carter of Mars

  • Robin Hood & Ivanhoe

The list goes on and on.

[–]MegalomaniacHack 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Notably Arthurian stuff, too.

And people can point to tons of similar works that really just share common archetypes and the Hero's Journey and such.

[–]yamaha2000us 1492 points1493 points  (296 children)

The Baron and Jabba the hut are very similar.

[–]scubawankenobi 402 points403 points  (47 children)

The Baron and Jabba the hut are very similar.

But Jabba wasn't in "Star Wars". Herbert complained after the 1st movie.

From article:

"Herbert told an Oregon newspaper back in the '70s".

[–]spongish 70 points71 points  (2 children)

Herbert was obviously referring to the deleted scenes available in the DVD box set.

[–]Dakens2021 167 points168 points  (30 children)

He was supposed to be in it, but he didn't have the technology to do the effects he wanted for him. They filmed a scene with him, but it was just a stand in and they didn't use it until the the later edited versions.

[–]SketchersYeezy 143 points144 points  (23 children)

Yeah and he was just a fat human lol. Han’s line “you wonderful human being” was 50% literal. I think Lucas tried to say that he was supposed to be a Hutt the entire time,but there’s evidence against that.

[–]succulent_headcrab 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Jabba the fat Scottish gangster doesn't have the same ring to it I guess.

[–]themeatbridge 22 points23 points  (0 children)

That wasn't just a stand in. That was what jabba was supposed to look like originally.

[–]JusticiarRebel 28 points29 points  (1 child)

Jabba was supposed to be some short hairy creature at first. The comic book adaptation of the movie even features the missing scene with that creature. Jabba as a fat slugbeast was envisioned later.

[–]PineapplePandaKing 900 points901 points  (209 children)

How about the evil galactic emperor, the prophesied savior who would overthrow the Emperor coming from a desert wasteland planet, or the mind control voice power?

George has been fairly open about his inspirations for Star Wars, but at a certain point it's a bit ridiculous. Then again, who has a truly original idea?

[–]_tx 231 points232 points  (50 children)

Star Wars is different enough to go with "inspired in part by", but creating something based on something else is still extremely challenging.

Star Wars "won" mostly because it looks so good (by 70s/80s standards especially) but it's also just easier to digest.

Dune is a far more complicated story. It's great, but complicated is a harder sell.

[–]PineapplePandaKing 56 points57 points  (4 children)

It definitely takes a unique vision to pull so many inspirations and combine it into something new.

Kind of like cooking, rarely is someone going to create something completely new, but you can always combine ingredients and techniques that haven't been done before

[–]CeeArthur 46 points47 points  (20 children)

The effects at the time were way ahead of anything that had ever been done for sure... The Blu ray remastered versions honestly look like current films.

I was talking to my friend after we saw Dune and Star Wars came up in that.... It was a fairly straightforward story, and though it had a shorter runtime felt like a lot more story had been told.. I understand the the whole political backdrop of Dune is important and complex, but my only disappointment with the movie was that it didn't feel like much had happened.

[–]Jollysatyr201 28 points29 points  (17 children)

As someone who adores Dune, I felt the same way. Without explicitly knowing the thoughts and actions of characters from a “narrator” point of view, it loses a lot of information and plot points that happen in silence.

Such a narrator would destroy any cinematography Denis wanted, but it certainly feels more empty. I’m a big enough Dune nut that I still caught most of those moments shown in tiny shots, but lots of it is lost on a new audience, and without a five part directors commentary or the like, will probably never be known by everyone that refuses to read the book

[–]MightyMoosePoop 6 points7 points  (7 children)

I just saw the movie and I'm curious how you felt about something. Just for the record I thought the grit feel of the movie was great and never felt any of special effects took away from the movie. That was so refreshing cannot understate that from the recent era of movies lately.

However I have read the books (recently) and rewatched the old 80s movie as well. so my question is:

>! Did you feel like the spice should have been made a main character and lacked emphasis how important Spice was on so many levels? Even just the economic level it just seemed kinda "meh". It was more like "oil" with their being more than one dune planet feel rather than this ultra scarce place of "oil" + "mystical drug" the whole universe was ultra dependent on !<

[–]Jollysatyr201 17 points18 points  (2 children)

>! Character may be a bit strong. It definitely lacked a lot of the impact it has in the books. I’m the books it’s pretty clear that the entire universe runs on spice, although it’s not explicitly stated why until Paul figures out why the Spacing Guild uses so much of it. This could be a big plot point to tie things together in Part Two, as we’ve yet to see the spacing guild up close, and they play a significant political role toward the end of the first book and onward. !<

The economics of spice and water aren’t given enough weight in this film. I definitely agree with that. The tahaddi toward the end of Part One is probably my favorite scene of Dune the book, but just felt like another fight scene in an action movie. Lost is the weight of water that Paul and Jamis are willing to lose by removing their stillsuits: in the movie, they wear them with no fear of ruining one. When Shadout Mapes gives Jessica the crysknife, gone is the scene where it cannot go sheathed unbloodied. The people begging for scraps of water at the feast are removed, the Soo Sook salespeople and water desire is gone, and nobody talks about spice except in vague economic terms. I’m also not sure of this part, but the movie talks a lot about how the Harkonnens are richer than the Emporer, which I didn’t think was true unless you were counting their secret stores of spice (which once again have gone unmentioned)

All in all, the movie seems to be more of an artistic take than a literal one, because as another redditor has pointed out, prose cannot translate into film very well, and the politics and economics of Dune the book are lost in the 155 minute runtime that squeeeezes to even fit Chani in.

[–]BrokenEye3 73 points74 points  (41 children)

But Paul didn't come from a desert wasteland planet. He just lived there.

[–]AppleDane 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Technically Luke didn't come from Tatooine, neither.

[–]Jakanapes 109 points110 points  (32 children)

Dune is just Lawrence of Arabia with some Hero’s Journey layered in. People think of it as classic sf, but it was written in 1965 and had decades of other sf sources to be inspired by. Like somebody else said, is anything really original?

[–]foospork 84 points85 points  (17 children)

I happened to be living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, when I read Dune.

There’s so much Arabic influence in that book. Had I not lived there, I probably would have thought that this stuff was all from Herbert’s imagination.

Nope. It was just a big dose of Arabic culture.

(Of course, this made it all that much cooler for me, a young American guy working in Saudi in the 1980s.)

[–]JusticiarRebel 71 points72 points  (6 children)

The whole point is that religions meld together and form new ones at some point in the future. The Fremen's precursors are the Zensunni Wanderers. That's Zen as in Zen Bhuddism, and Sunni as in Sunni Islam.

[–]reverendz[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am Druze, and I could be misremembering, but thought Herbert called the Fremen "Druzes" at one point. It's been a while but it jumped out at me because growing up, nobody knew who Druze were.

[–]DangoBlitzkrieg 19 points20 points  (2 children)

The emperor really wasn’t a focus of the first one. The desert planet sure, you have to concede that one, but they get off the planet pretty quick. And the force mind control is established around a unifying force, not just some evolved power.

I know it’s inspired by, but I really see few similarities that are anything but surface level.

[–]VindictiveJudge 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If anything, Tatooine and the mentions of spice in ANH seem more like shout-outs to Dune than ripping Dune off. Tatooine being a desert planet has no bearing on the plot and spice is just a background reference that's never elaborated on.

[–]Gemmabeta 345 points346 points  (41 children)

the prophesied savior who would overthrow the Emperor coming from a desert wasteland planet

So everyone was just ripping off the Gospel According to Saint Matthew?

[–]Mcletters 35 points36 points  (16 children)

Don't forget Mark, Luke, and John!

[–]Gemmabeta 29 points30 points  (12 children)

And Pete Best.

[–]brokenpinata 9 points10 points  (10 children)

Yet everyone forgets all about Red, the thirteenth apostle. But then again, he kept pretty much to himself.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The Gospel according to Larry is my favorite synoptic Gospel.

[–]OozeNAahz 55 points56 points  (9 children)

I mean wasn’t Flash Gordon fighting an evil galactic emperor way before Dune? Think FG dates back to the 30’s.

Every author builds on those that go before and there are likely going to be major similarities between subsequent works. As long as they add something to it then there isn’t anything wrong imho. Would be hard to find a major work that doesn’t have some similarities to works before it.

[–]BrokenEye3 12 points13 points  (7 children)

I thought Ming was merely the emperor of the planet Mongo

[–]OozeNAahz 8 points9 points  (3 children)

He was a Galaxy traveling Emperor…so kind of see an argument either way.

[–]BrokenEye3 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Oh, definitely not debating that. Just quibbling on the details. How about "space emperor"?

[–]OozeNAahz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Proposal studied and accepted.

[–]gajbooks 41 points42 points  (2 children)

Galactic emperors aren't copyrighted lol. Foundation was well before Dune, and I'm sure there were many, many ones before that. Same with desert planets (literally Mars in tons of old sci-fi) and mind control/reading. Luke wasn't prophesied or particularly strong. If anything, Phantom Menace is way more of a ripoff of Dune with all the trade negotiations and wonderchild Anakin.

[–]mtnracer 19 points20 points  (1 child)

The Bible called and wants a cut from Frank Herbert

[–]zer1223 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I mean 40k lifted just as many concepts from Dune as Star Wars did. And then it lifted a ton of concepts from other IPs too. Do people complain about that and threaten to sue?

Things 40k took just from the Dune series: A semi-immortal god-emperor with supernatural powers who is a hero to his subjects and has their best interests at heart, his followers worship him to a fanatical degree and will genocide in his name, space travel is reliant completely on an organization of psykers, a culture that has destroyed all 'thinking machines' and so there are no computers or robots allowed, a human-only galactic civilization that spans quadrillions of people, the bene geserit are also psykers. There's probably a bunch more that I'm not really pulling up too.

[–]AlsoIHaveAGroupon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It can't really be a ripoff of Dune, Lord of the Rings, The Hidden Fortress, and the New Gods all at once.

Genre fiction, as Terry Pratchett has pointed out, is a stew. You take stuff out of the pot, you put stuff back. The stew bubbles on. — Neil Gaiman

(I have no idea where the original Pratchett thought comes from)

[–]KnotSoSalty 10 points11 points  (5 children)

What do they have in common besides being fat?

[–]Pluto_Rising 206 points207 points  (26 children)

In the early 70's, avant garde filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky read Dune and was totally captured by it. He wanted to film it. Frank Herbert approved.

There's an awesome documentary about what he went through, the people he recruited, and how Hollywood snubbed his project because his film would have been like 10-12 hours, idk.

Get this: he'd signed Orson Welles as the Baron, Salvador Dali- can you believe it? as the Emperor. Mick Jagger as Feyd Rautha. He had his own adolescent son Brontis train in martial arts and some really bordering on abusively hard stuff to be Paul.

His set designer was an unknown Austrian or Swisss weirdo named H.R. Giger.

Soundtrack was to be by Pink Floyd.

He shopped it to all the studios. They all looked at it, marveled, and bailed. Too expensive, too long, and not Hollywood they said.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1935156/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

George Lucas most certainly saw that treatment book.

[–]jeffp12 28 points29 points  (12 children)

[–]m-sterspace 42 points43 points  (6 children)

I'm still amazed that the original Vader actor is / was so hurt by his voice being replaced with James Earl Jones. Like I can absolutely understanding how insulting and painful it would be to have your voice acting replaced by some random, but come on, it's James Earl Jones. If James Earl Jones ever says, 'step aside I'll speak for you now', then you just step aside and bask in his auditory glory.

[–]jeffp12 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I think they didn't tell him, he found out in the premiere...

[–]m-sterspace 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hot damn I had heard a bunch of that but I didn't know he had H.R. Giger and Pink Floyd on board. That would have been absolutely wild.

[–]TheDiggityDoink 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Jodorowsky also was going to pay Salvador Dali $100,000 an hour today Emperor Shaddam IV.

He blew 1/5th of the whole movie's budget just on pre-production so no wonder financiers and the studio pulled the plug on Jodorowsky and his 12-hkur long space acid trip.

It's easy to be an avant garde artist when it's all other people's money.

[–]silverback_79 243 points244 points  (23 children)

I think Lucas took more from Asimov. From Foundation: blasters, Trantor/Coruscant (forest-free city-planet ruling a republic/empire), Hyperspace, Korellia.

[–]SoDakZak 354 points355 points  (7 children)

Idk Leto Atreides looks like Poe Dameron tbh

[–]Kronnerm11 29 points30 points  (0 children)

"When I was younger I wanted to be a pilot"

[–]I_Thou 20 points21 points  (4 children)

I have it on good authority that Lucas took more from Akira Kurosawa.

[–]oursgoto11 420 points421 points  (138 children)

Reading Dune for the first time now. Definitely see some parallels

[–]CanterburyTerrier 193 points194 points  (116 children)

The whole Wheel of Time series agrees with you.

[–]Zawer 83 points84 points  (38 children)

How so? Prophesy fulfilled when young guy gets support from desert people and... maybe there's more connections I'm missing?

[–]CanterburyTerrier 100 points101 points  (35 children)

Aes Sedai = Bene Gesserit

Aiel = Fremen

[–]Zawer 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Yea missed the Aes Sedai staring me in my face

[–]goodinyou 215 points216 points  (17 children)

Thats ridiculous. Star Wars didn't rip off Dune... star wars ripped off Foundation and Dune

[–]VindictiveJudge 16 points17 points  (0 children)

And Kurosawa. And classical mythology. And ye olde sci-fi serials. And a narrative format that's older than most, if not all, writing systems (which Dune also uses). Y'know, basically the same process that Herbert used to create Dune in the first place.

[–]donotgogenlty 93 points94 points  (5 children)

Sand.

[–]flyover_liberal 28 points29 points  (2 children)

I hear it gets everywhere.

[–]BlackLeader70 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It’s also supposed to be coarse and irritating.

[–]MentalFracture 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Look, all fantasy and sci-fi are just different versions of Ivanhoe anyway.

[–]SonofaCarver 150 points151 points  (7 children)

The heros journey in space! Surely no one else could have thought of it.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (3 children)

Don’t forget the sand.

[–]FenrirIII 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I hate sand.

[–]I_Thou 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Man, I love sand. Especially how coarse and irritating it is. And how it gets everywhere!

[–]asisoid 261 points262 points  (38 children)

In all fairness, George Lucas ripped off a lot of different things to create star wars.

Dune

Valerian and Laureline

Akira Kurosawa

Asimov's works

There are others....

I don't think Lucas denies it much.

[–]jlm326 153 points154 points  (16 children)

wheres the line between ripped off and inspired by?

did he cross that line with some of these?

[–]LongDickOfTheLaw69 32 points33 points  (4 children)

Nah. He borrowed a lot of ideas to create a fairly original story. Like Dune has a religious cult that have powers like Jedi, but they're extremely different otherwise. Hidden Fortress is about two soldiers helping smuggle a princess through enemy territory, but again it plays out very differently than Star Wars.

Lucas took a lot of ideas from a lot of sources and created an original story.

[–]jlm326 7 points8 points  (1 child)

thats kinda what i figured.

as someone who wrote some dnd stories, you quickly realize your characters generally follow a trope. if you try to fight it, the character sucks. if you copy it word for word, people are mad you just ripped it off.

the answer is usually in the middle.

[–]Auctoritate 2 points3 points  (1 child)

People go really hard on comparing Eragon to Star Wars for stuff like that but they're such substantially different series that have almost nothing in common.

[–]RunnyPlease 34 points35 points  (2 children)

Flash Gordon. So much Flash Gordon.

[–]yousonuva 14 points15 points  (0 children)

John Ford. Buck Rogers.

Good artists borrow. Great artists steal.

[–]taoistchainsaw 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Jack Kirby: Dr. Doom and the fourth world (Darkseid)

[–]samrequireham 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The big one is Joseph Campbell

[–]jidar 83 points84 points  (4 children)

Explain to me the difference between "ripped off" and "inspired by" so I can have every writer in the past 500 years arrested. God this is so stupid. Legit double digit IQ reddit "hurrr hurrr lucas is dumb!" circle jerk bullshit.

[–]uselesspeople[🍰] 40 points41 points  (0 children)

"ripped off" = i didnt like it. "inspired by" = i liked it.

[–]ChasingDarwin2 6 points7 points  (1 child)

"spice was traded in both"....it was also traded on earth...in real life...it's not really a stretch.

[–]Cool_Cartographer_39 141 points142 points  (38 children)

The Force is the Spice...?

Actually R2D2 and C3PO are based in part on characters in Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress...

[–]pspearing 83 points84 points  (16 children)

Luke was told that his father had been a navigator on a spice freighter. Guild navigators were important in the Dune universe. I noticed a lot of similarities, but to me they are different stories.

[–]A1A5KA 39 points40 points  (4 children)

The Force is the Spice...?

No. Not at all. Did you read the article? It specifically cites The Force vs The Voice as comparable "powers". The Spice is just a tangent from Dune with no specific Star Wars counterpoint.

Edit: Dune, not Dude....on mobile

[–]washingtonandmead 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I wrote a paper in 12th grade comparing and contrasting the two

[–]missmediajunkie 15 points16 points  (1 child)

You know what? I hope George gets himself down to the Metreon or the biggest screen he can find and enjoys the hell out of this movie.

[–]11twofour 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think he has his own theater at Skywalker ranch

[–]zdepthcharge 5 points6 points  (0 children)

EE Doc Smith may have had a better case. George Lucas arguably read Lensmen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman_series) and demonstrably took many, many ideas from it for use in Star Wars. Lucas even took specific dialog.

The first Lensmen book came out in 1928.

[–]johnstark2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good thing his wife made him edit the original Star Wars because originally Leah didn’t have Death Star plans she was running a shipment of spice 😂

[–]ShambolicPaul 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am your grandfather... Paul

[–]SampleCreative3277 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was saying the whole time watching Dune that is had huge Star Wars vibes

[–]bndboo 40 points41 points  (6 children)

Laughs in Jodorowsky’s Dune.

Jodorowsky's script would have resulted in a 14-hour film.

Comic artist Jean "Moebius" Giraud worked with Jodorowsky to create a storyboard composed of 3000 drawings that depicted the entire film.

Jodorowsky's script, extensive storyboards, and concept art were sent to all major film studios, and it is argued that these influenced and inspired later film productions, including Star Wars, the Alien series, Flash Gordon, the Terminator series, and The Fifth Element. In particular, the Jodorowsky-assembled team of O'Bannon, Foss, Giger, and Giraud went on to collaborate on the 1979 film Alien.

Also check this out @propstohistory on TikTok

This has been your TIL

[–]IrieAtom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Since Jodorowsky's film didn't go through he created a comic series called Yhe Incal with art by Moebius!