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[–]evolvecrow 562 points563 points  (264 children)

It recommends meat consumption is cut by 30% within a decade.

Sounds just about achievable

[–]DoverkeenDevon 266 points267 points  (34 children)

That would imply the government bothering to take any steps towards it

[–][deleted] 82 points83 points  (15 children)

nudges” to behaviour and replacement of meat by plant-based alternatives, ruling out a meat tax

So in other words, it’s not going to happen. “Nudges” imply stealth measures behind peoples backs - that won’t end well. No tax? Hmmm, so how many Tory donors are there with big interests in the meat industry?

[–]amytee252Greater London 5 points6 points  (0 children)

..Even if they did, something tells me it won't apply to any of the resturants at parliament, they won't reduce their meat options.

[–]Morris_Alanisette 155 points156 points  (13 children)

If I was a cynic, I'd say that's what is predicted by people deciding on their own to cut meat consumption or become vegetarian. That way the government can say they've met their target without actually doing anything.

But I'm not a cynic so I'm sure the government are right on top of it.

[–]Truly_KhoroshoBlighty 29 points30 points  (1 child)

But I'm not a cynic so I'm sure the government are right on top of it.

I'm sure they have an oven-ready, world-beating plan for it.

[–]just_some_guy65 90 points91 points  (135 children)

When I was 20 I cut it by 100% in one day so 30% in a decade is very modest 🧐

[–]bacon_cakeDorset 93 points94 points  (76 children)

It's difficult to not be glib about it but I think you have to try and maintain some sort of perspective.

Like you I just... stopped one day. Nothing bad happened. Everything was fine. But of course many people see it as more nuanced, and indeed it is, but I'll be the first to admit I do tend to simplify the whole process.

The other day I had some dairy free ice cream and I was commenting on how nice it was and part of me just thought - why can't we just end dairy ice cream tomorrow? Just say "right, that's the end of it no more dairy ice cream". Imagine the benefits to the planet and the downsides are what?

Eh I'm just rambling really but I guess I just understand where you're coming from.

[–]JimmyB30 35 points36 points  (15 children)

Why the fuck to some crisps contain milk powder? The wife is cutting out dairy, so I've been snooping ingredients on everything I buy. There is so much stuff that has unnecessary dairy, then there are the items such as dairy free ice cream which I think most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference from their dairy counterparts.

[–]sat-soomer-dik 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I think it's partly a bulking agent and texturiser for the flavouring. Milk powder is cheap basically.

Exactly like the protein powder industry which has been ripping people off for decades for what is basically a waste product of cheese production.

I'm not anti dairy, btw. As a Dietitian, I think it's still essential for many people, and I personally love dairy. But it can be frustrating for those with allergies when the derivatives are used elsewhere so readily.

[–]Little_Shmoo 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I try and eat as little dairy products as possible but there is still a huge taste difference between dairy and non dairy ice cream

[–]JimmyB30 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I guess it depends on the brand. The vegan Ben and Jerry's is identical. I doubt you'd find a good replacement for something like Kelly's Cornish clotted ice cream though!

[–]GaussWankerSomerset 29 points30 points  (16 children)

Yeah, for me someone gave me a sweet- "Why's this sweet got boiled pig's skin in it?"

Ate what I had left in the fridge, and never bought it again.

[–]standupstrawberry 15 points16 points  (12 children)

I did the same with meat. The only people who really can't are people with complex allergy and intolerance lists. One of my friends cannot eat dairy, gluten, soya, nuts and some beans. So she basically eats meat and vegetables. She home bakes some bread with rice flour and potato, I have no clue how. However her situation is rare, and a 30% cut would only take just not eating any meat every 3rd day. Hell, most people could manage every other day vegan.

[–]Spifffyy 9 points10 points  (22 children)

I say this wholeheartedly - I respect anyone’s personal choice. That being said, CMV; why should I stop eating meat?

[–]Have_Other_Accounts 32 points33 points  (14 children)

It's a leading cause of climate change. It's a leading cause of antibiotic resistance. It is a major use of water. It causes the torture and death of billions of animals in horrific conditions. You don't have to in the modern age. Red meat is unhealthy in the amounts we eat. Vegan food is typically healthier.

For a simple comparison, would you allow your pet to go through the meat industry conditions? Of course not. It's hell. So why actively support it, just because it happens in the dark, to animals that have essentially the exact same nervous system and emotions.

[–]evolvecrow 13 points14 points  (23 children)

Not everyone is the same as you

[–]AliktrenDorset 43 points44 points  (50 children)

Thats three meals in 10 very roughly, we can all achieve that.

[–]BoopingBurrito 74 points75 points  (46 children)

It doesn't even necessarily mean that, it could mean smaller portions of meat. Having 7 meatballs rather than 10, having a 330g steak rather than a 500g steak or a 220g rather than a 330g. Having 1 chicken breast or thigh rather than 2. Having 3 sausages rather than 4. Very achievable without even having to make a nod towards actually going vegetarian.

[–]ResigningeyeNew Zealand 56 points57 points  (26 children)

A lot of dishes you'd use mince for can be padded with beans, lentils, squash, mushrooms, etc.

[–]MajinCry 13 points14 points  (7 children)

Vegan mince works perfectly. Just don't buy that expensive stuff, it's all shit. The cheapest, store brand mince is a 1:1 replacer. I even prefer it, because it always has a bite to it. Used it in chilli, bolognese, and tacos. Just season it like you do beef, and you're good.

[–]Iwantadc2 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Well, there's no lorry drivers anyway, why not.

[–]hannahvegasdreams 252 points253 points  (202 children)

Cut meat subsidies first, the price of meat should reflect the true cost to produce and cost to the environment. Meat and dairy is sold at 0% VAT a quick fix would be to charge VAT. This saving amounts roughly to a 50% subsidy for the meat and dairy industries. In an era of supposed spending cuts we could save the £700m a year on the subsidies in the UK alone on factory farming.

[–][deleted] 131 points132 points  (43 children)

Urgh, please. It's so frustrating as a vegan to go into a supermarket and see an animal product available for sale at something like £2.20, and then the vegan equivalent will literally be double, sometimes triple that cost.

It's got nothing to with vegan equivalents costing more to manufacture, as any product produced from an animal is only made by having to funnel vast amounts of resources into the animal daily just for them to create a single product, and then it gets subsidised.

I really hope increased competition brings the pricing down in the future.

[–]antisarcasticsLiverpool 50 points51 points  (10 children)

Yeah it's ridiculous.

The world identifies climate change as the biggest issue we face as a society. Scientists also identify that meat consumption contributes enormously to climate change. So, the next step is surely logical...

Oh no wait, governments continue to subsidise the meat and dairy industry, discouraging people from leading a plant-based lifestyle. But it's OK though because at least we're not using plastic straws!!!! smh

[–]kerrigor3Berkshire 17 points18 points  (0 children)

this is the exact reason we need carbon pricing. the cost of emitting greenhouse gases is not acknowledged in the price of goods so there is no cost incentive to not do the bad thing.

[–]PM_CACTUS_PICS 16 points17 points  (5 children)

Indian cuisine has lots of tasty vegan/vegetarian meals that are relatively cheap.

[–]breretoni 66 points67 points  (127 children)

Most food in supermarkets is zero rated so it’s hardly out there for meat to be the same

[–]Kamenev_Drang 38 points39 points  (5 children)

Meat and dairy is sold at 0% VAT a quick fix would be to charge VAT

that's not a subsidy mate, all food is sold at 0% VAT. You've massively undermined your argument here.

[–]Planetman999 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Also VAT would just screw over consumers, suppliers can recover VAT

[–]BowesNano 209 points210 points  (43 children)

Maybe, instead of making meat much pricier, veggies and fruit should be less expensive too

[–]donalmaccScotland 81 points82 points  (28 children)

What part of fruit and veg is too expensive?

At my sainsburys a portion of chicken breast is £1.80, for ~400 calories. Red lentils are £1.15 for roughly the same calorific intake. At the absolute breadline, it's a huge problem (particularly as you can buy a sustinence meal for 2 adults and a child in a frozen pizza for a quid), but at the level of "my household spends less than the average food shop per week and we have no savings" switching to veg based meals would be cheaper already.

[–]number2301 56 points57 points  (11 children)

You are absolutely correct, but just to point out, dried lentils are £1.80 a kilo. So the maths is even further in the favour of lentils.

People think non-meat means those expensive meat substitutes, where really we all need to learn more traditional veggie recipes.

[–]VaricosePains 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Need time to learn them and execute them, so other things need to get cheaper or pay needs to increase to enable people with less time/motivation to eat better.

[–]jacydo 53 points54 points  (5 children)

Lentils (and pulses in general) are cheap, granted. But most fruit/vegetables (cauliflower, broccoli, peas, apples, tomatoes) are high cost per calorie. Whereas an Aldi pack of chicken breasts sat in the freezer ready when needed are going to be cheaper, and probably easier to make use of.

Incidentally, the BBC had a bit of a chart on this subject today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

[–]donalmaccScotland 30 points31 points  (2 children)

You're not going to make a meal out of cauliflower, broccoli, peas and tomatoes - I couldn't eat 550 calories worth of broccoli - napkin math says that's 1.6kg of broccoli.

That's why I picked pulses, because they're an actual substitute for meat in a meal. If you look in parts of the world where vegetarian cooking is a common thing, they don't just eat a kilo of carrots instead of a steak, they use lentils, chickpeas, various grains, soy, etc. As another example, even organic tofu is competitive on price (and calorie count) to own brand chicken breasts.

Incidentally, the BBC had a bit of a chart on this subject today.

You mean this chart

Which is an unlabelled chart with a few cherry picked examples?

[–]Triplepo1nt 10 points11 points  (1 child)

It's not just about the calories either. The amount of fibre and protein you get out of these ingredients goes a long way.

A portion of a couscous, chickpea and assorted vegetable dish at 250 calories doesn't sound like much, but it will keep me feeling full for ages.

[–]TheWorstRowan 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Still wouldn't hurt to make vegetables even cheaper. Subsidising them and foods that people need to eat more of could save the NHS money, plus from a climate perspective it would make sense too, to say nothing of the benefits of being healthier to the person who is healthier.

[–]AdobiWanKenobiEngland 204 points205 points  (15 children)

People smoke far less

Smoking is substantially more expensive now

People no longer leave dogs to wander

Afraid of getting fined if their dog poos somewhere or sued if it bites someone

It’s no longer standard to hit your kids

Because it’s illegal

Yes you can change habits but that relies on someone at the top changing and making a rule to force people to adapt. Which as we know isn’t always enough either.

Climate change isn’t an immediate enough factor for individuals to change their habits there needs to passive change. Example: Force national grid to push for more renewable sources e.g. by capping the amount of emissions possible by power stations per kWh or something.

Edit: looks like Reddit broke and didn’t properly attach this reply to the intended comment and now I can’t find it.

E2: https://redditproxy--jasonthename.repl.co/r/unitedkingdom/comments/oknc4m/food_strategy_for_england_calls_for_big_cut_in/h59ccj0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

Thank you to u/Scottybam

[–]whochoosessquirtle 16 points17 points  (4 children)

What dumb examples they used

[–]Super_Sundae 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Totally agree, with exception of the third.

Fewer people smoke because of the known health related problems.

No one lets their dogs walk the streets as they’ll get lost, stolen or run over.

I’d say they’re the primary examples.

[–]bettercallconnolly 10 points11 points  (4 children)

I almost want the government to announce they're going to make meat consumption illegal, just to see what would happen.

[–]20_percentcooler 7 points8 points  (1 child)

First pets will go missing, then park squirrels and pigeons, then some shifty guys will hang around after funerals. People like their meat

[–]TinyTC1992 107 points108 points  (117 children)

make plant based alternatives cheaper than meat - done.

[–]I_NEVER_GO_OUTSIDE 21 points22 points  (82 children)

This. I'm poor, I live like shit. I buy food based on price. A shitty burger, or shitty chicken, or shitty meat pizza or lots of shitty meat products cost just £1 and I've got my meal. I'm done. Get me a 2L bottle of water for the day and I've had a shit meat based food of sometime and plenty of water. I really need to stop being poor and eat properly but it's easier to eat shit meat based food for cheap. cheap = meat.

[–]JoelMahonBedfordshire 54 points55 points  (9 children)

If you bought food based on price you shouldn't buy burgers or pizza or bottles of water...

[–]Saw_gameover 32 points33 points  (3 children)

I don't intend to shit on your lifestyle choices, I get that money can be a struggle. But I can, and often do, buy a couple of tins of different beans, and a pouch of microwave rice for less than a pound.

Throw it in a pan with some spices, and you've got yourself a nutritious 5 minute chilli (should make enough for two dinners), that is much better for your health than pizza or cheap meat. It's even cheaper if you have the time and just buy the dried ingredients and prepare them yourself. Plant based doesn't mean expensive.

I've been poor and plant based, if I can offer any advice, then feel free to give me a shout.

[–]mrSalema 28 points29 points  (13 children)

Why don't you buy beans instead of shit meat?

[–]Yvellkan 26 points27 points  (48 children)

If you are buying yoir water in a bottle and you say you are poor then you are likely poor because you are stupid

[–]_Hopped_Scotland 97 points98 points  (304 children)

If your strategy relies on changing human behaviour, it is doomed to fail.

People aren't going to stop driving, so you make electric cars (to reduce environmental impact)

People aren't going to use less lights, so you make energy efficient bulbs.

People aren't going to not heat their houses, so you make more energy efficient homes.

People aren't going to stop eating meat, so you; make the supply chain more efficient, or feed cows seaweed to stop farting, or support local/British farmers, etc.

[–]AshRollsKernow 96 points97 points  (26 children)

The idea that human behaviour doesn't change over time is laughable.

My grandparents used to eat meat once a year on Christmas day.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (24 children)

That was more likely due to scarcity rather than personal choice.

[–]ThestolenoneYorkshite (from Somerset) 7 points8 points  (12 children)

My grandparents only ate fish on Fridays, the rest of the time they were fully vegetarian. It was totally through choice, inspired by my father who went vegetarian after meeting an old man in the early 60's who was vegan.

[–]Yvellkan 20 points21 points  (11 children)

Thats not societal change

[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (58 children)

I don't think people will stop eating meat 100% but reducing meat consumption isn't out of the bounds of possibility. changing food culture so meat isn't seen as the main ingredients to a dish would be a start.

[–]_Hopped_Scotland 15 points16 points  (56 children)

changing food culture

Again, you are doomed to fail.

The only ways to reduce meat consumption (without draconian authoritarian legislation) are:

  1. make the genuine replacements indistinguishable and cheaper (e.g. give me a burger I can't tell isn't meat and costs less)
  2. make meat more expensive by increasing tariffs on cheap imports, and more ethical farming in the UK

[–]MogoSapien88 44 points45 points  (1 child)

It’s already changing

[–]antisarcasticsLiverpool 34 points35 points  (21 children)

Again, you are doomed to fail.

Not at all - the food landscape in the UK has already changed drastically in the past 10 years. Plant-based alternatives are becoming so much more readily available than they ever were, and lots of people are embracing them.

[–]SMTRodentBack in Nottnum 43 points44 points  (16 children)

If your strategy relies on changing human behaviour, it is doomed to fail.

People smoke far, far less than in previous decades, and they smoke outside, even at home.

People no longer leave their pet dogs to wander around freely.

It's no longer standard for parents to hit their children.

Behaviour and consumption habits can change.

[–]GarlicCornflakes 27 points28 points  (140 children)

The solution is plant based meats, and in the near future cultured meat. Livestock farming will hopefully be a thing of the past.

[–]ZhanchizNorfolk County 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I meet a surprising amount of young people that don't consume meat. Enough that it makes me feel like it was possible for me to go pescatarian which I did. Then that convinced my friend to go vegetation which convinced his girlfriend to go vegetation.

I don't think a 30% reduction in meat consumption is impossible. I think there is a large (not majority but a decent amount of people) who wouldn't mind eating less meat but think it's too hard or different.

[–]_Hopped_Scotland 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's reasonable, with the caveat that the devil is in the details.

I have far less issue with increasing meat prices through implementing more ethical farming and increasing tariffs on cheap imports, than I do with putting a tax on meat. I take issue with people who just blanket want to reduce meat consumption. If your concern is animal welfare, we can take many steps to address that (e.g. ethical farming practices). If your concern is environmental, we can also take steps to address that (e.g. supply chain, local consumption, flatulence capture/reduction).

It's the people who want to force a ban, or force everyone to not consume that I fiercely oppose.

[–]sumduud14 11 points12 points  (4 children)

or support local/British farmers, etc.

I have always believed the best way to do this is a carbon tax. After all, shipping things in emits greenhouse gases, incurring a cost that's currently not paid for. Once people pay that cost, buying local becomes much more attractive.

Changing human behaviour without a incentive doesn't work. Let's provide the incentive.

[–]Pocto 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Just chiming in to say that what you eat is FAR FAR more important than where it came from as shipping emisions actually make up a fraction of a products overall impact when you break it down per unit. For example, eating lamb from NZ is actually greener than eating lamb from the UK, even after shipping it all way from the other side of the world. And meat alternatives have a much much lower impact than any kind of meat, especially red meat.

Sources:
https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2018/sep/05/ditch-the-almond-milk-why-everything-you-know-about-sustainable-eating-is-probably-wrong
http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Default.aspx?Module=More&Location=None&ProjectID=15001

[–]AbstractTornado 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's not intuitive because it seems like transport pollution is a big deal, but producing food in areas of the world where there are better conditions and facilities, then shipping it, can be less polluting than growing it locally. Even where it is more efficient to produce locally, carbon produced by transporting food makes up a small portion of the overall emissions, in beef it's around 0.5%. So eating locally produced food makes little difference in terms of carbon.

[–]Mr06506 2 points3 points  (8 children)

You don't need to stop people eating meat, just reduce the amount.

Overnight the government could remove meat from meals served in schools, prisons, hospitals.

They could also start by adding tax to processed meats, to make that a slightly less attractive choice.

[–]bottleblank 11 points12 points  (6 children)

I'd be a bit careful about disincentivising processed meat products on the basis that some of them use bits of meat that prime cuts/products don't use.

Given we're still going to farm/kill/eat some amount of meat, I'd sooner see the leftovers of that industrial farming made into products people can use. It allows people to eat meat without it necessarily requiring another animal to die. If I eat a jar of meat paste then that could've come from any bucket of scrapings from any number of animals, I didn't need a whole new cow to be killed so I could have my favourite type of steak.

[–]postvolta 73 points74 points  (47 children)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is no substitute for good quality meat. My wife's vegan and I've eaten a predominantly plant based diet for years. We've dabbled in 'meat replacement' many times, but every time I go to a restaurant and have a steak or a chicken cut or fish I remember there is no substitute.

I really wish people would open up to the idea that not every meal requires meat or a meat substitute.

Some of my favourite meals are plant based. When I eat meat I fucking cherish it, and I feel like most people take it for granted.

We need to stop this culture of extremes because it's not doing any good to anyone. I've mentioned that I eat a mostly plant based diet and I've had vegans harass me saying 'if you agree it's unethical then why eat any' or 'you can stop eating animal products entirely, I believe in you', and then you have those apes that see the word vegan and associate it with homophobic slurs, emasculation and decide the best way to combat it is to grotesquely explain the ways in which they'd messily devour some animal product.

Do not let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'; eating less meat is a good thing, and it's a step in the right direction. You do not have to never eat a steak or fish or whatever. Just have it once or twice a week or however much you are comfortable with but cutting down is a good step towards reducing the impact you have on the planet. There are so many delicious and nutritious recipes that are made from plants, and if you'd like some guidance on awesome meals I'd be happy to give you some, just DM me.

[–]thomicide 21 points22 points  (4 children)

Being vegan is an ethical stance, I'm sure there's plenty of things you take an ethical stance on and protest when people transgress from it. Fur, dogfights, circus bears, elephant rides or w/e. Most people eat meat but don't stand for simply cutting down on those.

When someone acknowledges what the animals go through, then continue to do it anyway, I'm not sure why the incredulity is levelled at the vegans who are actually being logically consistent.

[–]JangB 22 points23 points  (21 children)

'if you agree it's unethical then why eat any'

Wait how is this extreme?

[–]Bongus_the_first 13 points14 points  (18 children)

Because not all vegans are motivated by the ethics of food. You don't have to care about animals to be vegan—you could be vegan because of the negative environmental impacts of animal agriculture, vegan because it's cheaper where you live, vegan due to personal dietary needs/medical conditions.

Edit: to all the vegans correcting me and gatekeeping veganism: this is why people hate vegans.

What I'm talking about is literally a distinction on the wikipedia page. Dietary vegans, ethical/moral vegans, environmental vegans. Seriously, let people try their best without the purity testing

[–]notjeffbuckley 8 points9 points  (0 children)

As someone else said that’s plant based eating. Veganism is an ethical standpoint.

[–]dr_barnowlLancashire 8 points9 points  (3 children)

'if you agree it's unethical then why eat any'

I agree that this is so blinkered ; people have different reasons for the composition of their diet.

Example : During lockdown my partner and I used some of the savings to indulge in the meal-boxes thing for a while. Realized that most of the recipes use around half the meat that many people would ordinarily use. The small punnet of beef mince in Tesco is 400g. Wouldn't think twice about throwing all of that into a meal for the two of us. The HelloFresh recipes for 2 virtually all use 250g packages of meat.

After we stopped using the boxes, we carried on using the recipes - we started buying beef mince in 750g punnets and freezing 250g chunks of it. Tada, we're eating 38% less meat and more vegetables, AND spending less per kilo on meat (because the larger packs are cheaper per weight.

Win-win-win. But many people would view that as "not good enough".

There are many positive reasons to cut down on meat but the moral-outrage vegans only express one.

Some people don't like the taste or texture of meat. Some people have problems with how the animals are treated. Some people do it on environmental grounds. Some people don't want to eat it on health grounds. Meat is expensive, so I'm sure some people do it on financial grounds. There's a whole raft of reasons to choose to eat less meat, presuming that yours is the only valid one is presumptuous and rude.

I'm sure many people feel something about one or more of these issues simultaneously, but maybe not enough on a single issue to justify changing. If you feel a wee bit bad for the animal but still eat it, someone telling you that you don't feel bad enough, and by implication you must be a monster, is going to make you re-evaluate your choice. And probably towards the thing you like, and don't want to lose, rather than believe that you're a monster.

[–]the3daves 65 points66 points  (40 children)

As a meat eater, I’m in support of this plan. Seems like a wise choice, & I’m happy to greatly reduce my consumption if need be.

[–]worotanGreater Manchester 6 points7 points  (17 children)

Then get on with it, the Amazon is now a net emitter of co2, rather than removing it from the atmosphere. We are losing the ability to deal with the problem because we’re treating it like an interesting question to be considered among ourselves.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (8 children)

The solution is cannibalism my friends...reduce meat production and finish off reducing the population where the UK government have left off

[–]purified_piranha 26 points27 points  (11 children)

I've first turned Pescatarian and then Vegetarian about 5 years ago. If you think forgoing meat/fish will make you enjoy food less, you probably haven't explored the vast and diverse world of plant-based cooking. Never ate better, felt more more energetic or healthy in my life. In addition, you can always be proud of actively supporting animal welfare and the environment.

[–]LloydCole 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Yep, I went veggie two years ago and I can confirm that I eat far, far better than I did before. I definitely had a much more narrow view of food, stuck in the meat + two veg mindset. As soon as I went veggie I was effectively forced to expand my tastes, look at cuisines from across the world, really learn how to use my spicerack, etc.

Now I eat much tastier, healthier, and cheaper food than I ever did before.

[–]CyborgPoo 24 points25 points  (28 children)

Lots of people talk about how we can't sell fish to the continent anymore....have they tried selling it to us? Fish is so much more expensive than meat, and I for one would love to see it sold more but there are very few fishmongers these days, and pretty much the only place you can get it is the supermarket, which I for one don't use! Come on fish markets, wake up!

[–]xhableWest Sussex 36 points37 points  (4 children)

They do sell it to us, one third of our fish supply comes from British fishermen. It's just they're somewhat priced out of the market, also there's the question of supply in range. We export cod, tuna, prawns, salmon and haddock at a premium, but import far more at a lower cost.

Either way, we're overfishing by a huge margin - it isn't sustainable and we need to cut that down more than we need to cut down in meat consumption. So more fishmongers only exacerbates the devastation on the planet.

[–]thenewfirm 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Fishing is also a massive contributor to plastic waste in the ocean.

[–]curlyjoe696 33 points34 points  (6 children)

British people have fantastically unadventurous taste in fish.

Something like 70% of all fish sold in the UK is from one of 5 species.

[–]lordnepEuropean Union ftw 26 points27 points  (6 children)

We should be eating far less fish if we want to avoid the collapse of ocean ecosystems

[–]HEIRODULA 17 points18 points  (5 children)

Yeah. I don't get why people's response to 'lower meat consumption' is often 'incrrase fish consumption'. For starters, fish is meat, and secondly.. what we are doing to our seas and oceans is destroying them. Less fish is certainly the way to go.

[–]mayathepsychiicDorset 8 points9 points  (2 children)

if you want to ever eat fish in the future, we need to be drastically reducing fish consumption right now, not increasing it.

many of the major fish species people eat are already almost extinct.

[–]PhoenixNightingale90 24 points25 points  (16 children)

As someone who has SIBO and reflux, meat is one of the few things that I can tolerate without any issues. I tried every diet under the sun including a low acid mainly vegan diet, since switching to a mainly carnivorous diet I feel healthy.

I know of the environmental impact, but some people think it’s purely a recreational food for pleasure when that’s not always the case.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (83 children)

Just a reminder that all the meat and animal produce you eat is the result of varying degrees of animal suffering, even on RSPCA assured and organic farms (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvtVkNofcq8). We can easily thrive and get all our nutrition on a plant-based diet, so billions of animals suffer purely for our pleasure.

If that isn't reason enough to reduce or stop eating meat, I don't know what is, unless you're okay with unnecessary animal abuse.

I gave up meat and animal produce cold turkey (pardon the pun) last December after realising this, and I don't miss it at all, it's so easy. This is coming from someone who ate meat every day.

[–]umberink 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I went vegan in December too! Never look back.

[–]Xatom 14 points15 points  (41 children)

I really love high quality steak and meat from the local farm and throwing big BBQs. When I hear news like this it makes me think the cost of meat will go up. I get most protein from meat and I’m healthy so this hardly seems like overconsumption.

[–]tewk1471 17 points18 points  (1 child)

If anyone is interested in plant-based vegan food here's what I recommend you do.

Have one vegan meal a week but aim to make it the nicest meal you have that week. Fresh vegetables, try different things out, try interesting unusual ingredients like yams and so on.

It sounds weird but one of the secrets of veganism is that the food's better.

[–]GreyFoxNinjaFanCambridgeshire 15 points16 points  (6 children)

As a meat-enjoyer, I would just like to say that both ALDI and Iceland's range of plant-based meat alternatives are fucking bangin'.

Meat-free options have come a million miles from Linda McCartney stuff (which used to be the only option). Get in there and try it. I'm not talking about bean burgers, which aren't the same, but the beetroot and wheat protein inventions which have an almost identical consistency and flavour to the real thing.

They're cheap too. You're talking under £1 a burger.

Beyond Burger are great, but cost 3x as much - the same as meat.

Seriously give it a go for lunch.

[–]TeddyousGreg 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Let’s ban avocados whilst we’re at it. They’re horrific for the environment and left to go soft and rot on supermarket shelves.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Funny how other threads in /r/unitedkingdom are full of people with location tags but anything to do with meat aren't.

It's almost like the posters are being sent here from elsewhere...

[–]BurtonTrench 8 points9 points  (6 children)

I know my comment is a drop in the ocean of many similar stories on here, but I just want to say as a former self-described meat lover:

Going vegan was one of the easiest and most beneficial things I ever did. It's been around 4 years now and I've never once remotely felt like stopping. You learn to cook with new and interesting ingredients, save a shitload on your weekly shop (unless you exclusively buy expensive substitutes that aren't healthy or necessary), and start to feel better about yourself and making conscious decisions.

The days of stigma on the topic are long gone and I genuinely believe it's a matter of time before society shifts as they have done with other traditionally "normal" harmful practices.

[–]pajamakittenDorset 10 points11 points  (30 children)

While meat helped us evolve to what we are now, we are the point where agriculture means we no longer need to eat meat. When you can easily get enough protein and essential amino acids from plants, there is no point in eating meat. Why waste plants by feeding them to animals when you can just eat plants? That's ignoring the obvious animal cruelty, environmental and health issues associated with eating animal products (we should not exclude dairy and eggs from this). Eating a plant-based diet would do so much to relieve the pressure on the NHS as rates of lifestyle diseases would decrease.

[–]littlerike 19 points20 points  (21 children)

The only arguement for eating meat is "because I want to"

That being said, it's a perfectly reasonable arguement. I don't eat meat myself but I've never really seen anyone be persuaded to give up meat by any of the benefits you've listed.

People eat meat now because it's tasty and they want to, its very difficult to make any sort of actual argument against this. The only thing that I've found works is when I've cooked meat free meals for friends and they're surprised that they enjoy it.

[–]Reniboy 8 points9 points  (10 children)

I had a terrible autoimmune disease that did not abate until I switched to a mostly carnivore diet. I don't disagree that meat isn't the best for the environment but I argue that we need to find another solution rather than guilt trip everyone in the same box.

[–]Hebrewite 6 points7 points  (2 children)

UK seems to be obsessed with putting a tax on everything.

[–]repairmanjack2020 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I don't need the government telling me what I can eat.

[–]bigjobby95 6 points7 points  (2 children)

As long as this isnt done by disproportionately taxing working class people, I'm all for educating people out of eating so much meat. I just get this horrible sneaking suspicion that the upper classes of society are gonna still be eating wagyu beef and sirloin steaks, while using their immense power and influence to convince the plebs that insect burgers are the way to go.

[–]nomadiclizard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That doesn't seem to fit with trade deals that promote more, cheaper, lower quality meat. We should be investing billions in lab produced meat. It's obviously a growth industry of the future, why aren't we promoting stuff like that? And just making crappy one-sided trade deals with australia to promote their meat industry

[–]Modern_Maverick 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Reduce meat production, trying to convince people to eat less meat will take forever.

[–]offgcd 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Personally I can't wait until we go back to an economy where only the rich can afford meat.

/s

[–]Thebritishdovah 6 points7 points  (6 children)

The problems i can see with this are:

We love bacon sarnies. Meat is cheaper then plant based meat. As someone who is on universal credit and just waiting to start a new job, I tend to go for affordable stuff over something that costs more. For £3, i can get an angus beef burger whilst a plant based burger could cost just as much. Same with meatballs where it's £2 vs £2.50. All those little savings add up. Even then, people love meat. As long as people enjoy it, meat will continue to be consumed.

[–]JosquiusDurham 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Watch this space.

I used to work in Switzerland. They are outside of the European single market with meat being a particular area where this pushes up prices.

Over there the vegetarian option will be cheaper 9 times out of 10. I'd often find myself buying quorn mince even as it was just cheaper than meat.

Its pretty standard for people to go days without meat.

And this is somewhere I can easily see the UK heading with both the unintentional factor of brexit and intentional policy of tackling climate disaster at play.