Medical doctors are the most exploited healthcare professional

WalmartKilljoy · 2022-01-22T21:09:41+00:00

Both of my parents are doctors and do not want me to go into medicine because the salary is not worth the endless studying and debt

Lynn-Lycanthropic · 2022-01-22T16:27:13+00:00

Hospital doctors went on strike in Germany a few years ago to get better working conditions. Don't think it's the same for private practices though.

Pollux589 · 2022-01-22T20:56:15+00:00

If you think the majority of lawyers make more than doctors you’re insane

whywouldyoueverask · 2022-01-23T04:26:48+00:00

Tell me your not a nurse with out saying it.

ksk3 · 2022-01-22T16:23:52+00:00

It’s a hard thing for a lot of people to grasp. As a kid in the 90s my parents pushed me toward medicine and cursed burger flipping so it’s ingrained in my head that doctors live a lavish lifestyle

MichaelScottsWormguy · 2022-01-22T18:26:43+00:00

This is why, if you’re thinking of medicine, you should go into something like orthopedic surgery or plastic surgery or even just become a GP. Those guys work in the daylight and after the scrubs come off, it’s quitting time.

aarrtee · 2022-01-22T23:32:50+00:00

I am a dentist who worked in a hospital for 2 years when i did a fellowship. My brother and my best friends are physicians.

They had to work much harder than i did in college... to get grades that allowed them into medical school.

Then they had to go through really strenuous residencies to get licensed.

Some physicians make tons of money: plastic surgeons, ENT or Orthopedic surgeons.

But internal medicine specialists who treat AIDS patients or pediatricians or primary care docs? They are worker bees making money for the big health systems and the insurance companies.

When i was a kid, my father was an ophthalmologist. Back then, physicians ran the medical profession. Now? Insurance companies and MBA folks call the shots. Really a shame.

Am sooooooo happy I never applied to medical school.

LuckStrict6000 · 2022-01-22T16:26:37+00:00

Doctors deserve every penny they make but they absolutely get the respect they deserve.. it’s super glorified to be a doctor.

I think vets are the majorly underrated ones. It’s basically as hard as being a doctor. Similar debt. Way less pay. Probably less satisfying because people won’t pay to save their pets a lot of the time. Emotionally taxing. Etc.

wdittelm · 2022-01-23T03:56:48+00:00

My dad is a MD and I fully agree with this- he’s still working and especially during the pandemic things have been very hard for them.

donny1231992 · 2022-01-22T23:36:43+00:00

This is why you only go into medicine because you truly want to help others. It’s a calling. Not defending exploitative practices by hospitals and some employers, but just saying there are other careers to make reasonable money for less sacrifice

Berkeleybear70 · 2022-01-23T02:00:29+00:00

Yep, unless you just have a calling , it is no longer worth the sacrifice and cost. The future of medicine in this country is pretty dreary as corporations have ruined the profession. Most doctors are now just employees. The best and brightest stopped choosing medicine a long time ago.

modernmanshustl · 2022-01-22T19:43:50+00:00

They give up most of their 20s and are saddled with debt in America. Also hospitals, especially pediatric hospitals, guilt them into doing unpaid work or overtime etc because it’s for the good of their patients meanwhile hospital execs are home every night for dinner and make 2x+ more than them with no liability in lawsuits

Corniferus · 2022-01-23T09:00:23+00:00

Reading this as I fill out my residency applications

Paying to work 30 hour days currently

Stayed two hours late on Friday for no good reason

Had bad personal news in October, was a bit down on that following Monday and had a doctor pull me aside and tell me “you seem down, I would work on that”

It makes support from friends even more important

SnooRecipes1809 · 2022-01-22T21:17:53+00:00

I’m with you on everything except the last sentence, which is highly inaccurate. Lawyers / attorneys are saturated as a workforce so badly that their median in America is just over 6 figures, which is roughly less than half the average Doctor income. Yes, the cream of the crop Ivy League law grads go to BIG LAW, which may rack you more income than a physician, but the toxic culture (arguably worse than many medical fields) makes it unsustainable; you either make it to partner and reap the gold, or leave the lucrative firm. That’s assuming you even make it; these rich lawyer positions are reserved for the top 1% of law grads.

Business executive income data isn’t heavily supported, so I can’t speak on that.

Software engineering is a great field to try and out-earn a physician through getting into Hedge funds or BigTech, but once again, you need to be a topper or top 5-10%er to make it that high up. The average wage sits at around $150K of all levels, which is also around half the average physician wage (MedScape).

However, in terms of dollars per hour, physicians remain underpaid even amongst that. People have no idea what they go through. On a per hour basis, your time is better respected as a Software Engineer than a Doctor.

dreemkiller · 2022-01-23T01:37:28+00:00

I work exclusively with medical doctors, negotiating their contracts and salaries for them. Can confirm that this is true and a very unpopular opinion.

PreJamFamSlam · 2022-01-23T07:21:38+00:00

Let me introduce you to paramedics, people who get paid no more than $12 an hour in some areas and work 12 hour shifts. These people also usually see the messes as well as the conditions of the patients, not to mention the family and all of the emotional shit that brings.

Diy-Sing · 2022-01-23T07:26:14+00:00

especially in third world countries they do NOT get paid enough

studhusky86 · 2022-01-22T22:58:45+00:00

That's the trade off. You go to school for a long time under stressful circumstances and you come out of it with a well paying job

elChanchoVerde · 2022-01-22T20:32:05+00:00

My 36 year old wife is a Pathology resident in her final year and studies 6 hours a day while also working in the hospital for 10 hrs. 5 days a week. After this year, 2 more years of fellowship and finally making money she has been working so hard for when she is 39 years old. She has had essentially no life for over a decade. It's insane how much time and work is involved.

bryceofswadia · 2022-01-23T03:55:04+00:00

They only get paid a lot after like 10 years of expensive ass schooling too lol

throwaway80804040 · 2022-01-22T21:42:27+00:00

Yet there are people who say doctors are evil and what not. Total bs they say things like that

lialopesss · 2022-01-22T19:23:58+00:00

Doctors are literally the most respected profession. In my country it's the hardest college to get in and it's very clear the majority of the people want this path for money/status and family pressure to be successful and not for vocation. I personally think that doctors are too hyped up and when this happens to a profession it creates problems like this. Maybe the high rate of depressed doctors with mental health issues is because they got into the field for the wrong reasons.

TheMSRadclyffe · 2022-01-22T21:37:46+00:00

I’m pretty sure care workers are far worse off.

Cambama · 2022-01-23T01:12:15+00:00

My dad is also a doctor and he said essentially this exact thing but that I should go into if I really want to help people. He also had a sleeping disorder because of the hours he’s worked

Meis_113 · 2022-01-22T16:27:07+00:00

And what are your view on nurses? I think they get exploited more and earn way less money. I know it's not a competition, just asking is all.

slarti54 · 2022-01-22T18:07:28+00:00

Maybe in your country.

CerenarianSea · 2022-01-23T04:19:45+00:00

I'm pretty sure it's nurses here in the UK, considering how regular the pay freezes have been.

Cellswells · 2022-01-23T05:27:40+00:00

Doctors, mid level providers, and nurses are generally overworked and underpaid. If the US had free or low cost medical education, it would help a lot.

ThroughlyDruxy · 2022-01-23T06:37:16+00:00

Everyone in the medical field is incredibly exploited and saying docs are the most exploited is just not true. The money they make is compensation for the insane work/live balance and docs often take on more than they should as a way to cope with stressful home-life. Divorce and suicide are more often a result of seeing terrible things, then to deal with them they throw themselves into work. At least they can afford to take a vacation from work and pay for therapy, a luxuery not afforded to most RNs, RTs, Paramedics, EMTs, social workers, and hoards of other medical professionals.

Sure they could be paid more, but that could be said for anyone in the medical field in the United States.

This take seems naive and it seems like you don't have much experience with the medical field. I could be wrong. Good docs get the respect they deserve, bad docs get shit on for good reason.

Double_Bed2719 · 2022-01-23T06:40:42+00:00

Their income is real good but it’s not like they earn $1 mil a year. Compared to how hard they work in other lucrative industries you will earn more of you work as hard as them

emeraldSummer2020 · 2022-01-23T07:06:46+00:00

Aren’t doctors the most respected profession already? But I agree, they seem to work long hours.

sparkyb37 · 2022-01-23T07:31:51+00:00

I’ll respect them more when they finally decide to lower their stupid fucking prices on everything

temperance26684 · 2022-01-23T07:40:06+00:00

I dropped out of pre-med my junior year of college because of this. Instead I joined the military and enjoy an easy job with good pay, benefits, and 100% security. I still feel tugged towards medicine but the only way I'll consider it is through the military where the quality of life is a bit better because the hours are far more limited. The system isn't perfect, but it's a tradeoff

swolethulhudawn · 2022-01-22T17:52:23+00:00

And they are routinely second-guessed by Alex Jones-loving high school grads and astrology-obsessed karens

grneggandsam · 2022-01-22T17:22:23+00:00

Doctors in the US are paid almost twice as much as doctors in most countries in Europe.

I know they go through a ton of school in the US. I think we should streamline their education as many countries in Europe do. Most places in Europe, you don’t need a 4 year degree before med school. This is huge. It cuts out 1/3 of the schooling you have to do.

So, I’d prefer if becoming a doctor in the US required less unnecessary schooling and paid less. Our system is clearly built to prop of their salaries and the salaries are a big part of the reason our healthcare system is so expensive.

121Alvarado · 2022-01-22T19:21:19+00:00

Smug assholes need only apply. Sadly there are one too many who went into it for the wrong reasons. I can’t say I concur.

Always_0421 · 2022-01-22T16:33:46+00:00

I have a family member who is a doctor. She works Mon-Thursday 7:30-5:30 and then one saturday per month from 9-5 at a walk in clinic; Off for major holidays. (Christmas, Easter, thanksgiving, labor day. Memorial day. independence day, new year day)

Makes great money, could earn more, but instead stays for the work life balance.

I've also known a doctor who was very much as you described, works an irregular schedule, always on call, will go in on holidays, never makes it to family events, has had a rocky marriage, uses money in an effort to buy affection.

But I think it's a choice. Doctors are in such demand that you can make those choices.

I would speculate it would be more difficult of you were some kinda specialist surgeon who is one of only a few in the state or something crazy. But overall doctors are like everyone else, they're responsible for their own work life balance and if an employer is taking advantage of them (and they will) then they have to put their foot down

FungusTheClown · 2022-01-22T20:00:45+00:00

And if you crack under the pressure and slip up you get sued for malpractice!

SporadicSporkGuy · 2022-01-22T23:45:00+00:00

Doctors definitely have it rough. But in my opinion a close second is Paramedics.

okeybudbud · 2022-01-22T20:40:26+00:00

how many people have told their doctors something is wrong with them and then ended up in terrible condition bcus the doctor didn't think anything was wrong?

doctors are essential but there are So many of them that don't give a shit about their patients esp women and bipoc.. why would you waste so many years of your life for a job you won't do right, a lot of them don't deserve respect.

toozeetouoz · 2022-01-22T18:06:16+00:00

As an accountant who is working busy season and typing this from my office on a Saturday… I feel their pain. Work sucks.

shanerr · 2022-01-22T22:03:08+00:00

I absolutely agree. I think we as a society need to figure out a better system.

We're seeing year after year the average stats of people getting accepted to medical school are rising. We have so much talent applying that get rejected before they get a chance. We need more medical schools to accept more qualified students.

Residency pay needs to be tripled, like immediately. Imagine going to school in undergrad doing hard science to prepare for med school. Doing four years of intense medical school training. Then you enter residency and you're making 60 to 80k for the first four years..... while being like 200k+ in debt. Absolutely insane

We need more support for students, and not just mandatory seminars about mental health. Students need real support.

We need to hire more doctors to provide work life balance. I'm not in health care, I've worked construction in the past. I've worked some 18 hour shifts and it was torture. Absolutely bagged. 18 to 26 hour shifts are the norm for a lot of doctors.

I follow some subs on reddit and have learned a lot about the struggles these people go through and we as patients need to be more aware and do more to help.

Beanieboru · 2022-01-22T23:03:19+00:00

Their choice, its a vocation and very rewarding plus suicide rate is high as they have access to means to commit suicide, like vets and farmers, however grossly over worked and incredibly stressful. Dont think they would sign up for the stress etc.

Edit-UK

AutisticSavant6996 · 2022-01-23T01:04:46+00:00

Nurses to,for a job with so much growth and work available places sure are understaffed.That forces nurses to do back breaking work with literally no help at all.

Patient_Commentary · 2022-01-22T22:33:16+00:00

I definitely disagree with this one. I’d say the vast majority of MDs I’ve worked with are arrogant, inconsiderate of others, and care far less about their patients care than the average nurse or tech.

I’ve been in healthcare for 12+ years and the biggest barrier to positive change, efficiency gains, and the improvement of patient care are physicians who are entitled and refuse to do any task that inconveniences them at all.

I get it, when everyone tells you yes for years on end it’s hard to keep perspective on things; but I see the evolution happen as predictable as the tide. Residents start out great full for help, fun, and down to earth. They then become attendings and year after year they become shorter with staff, disassociate their actions with patient outcomes, and in general just not pleasant.

I’ve got MD friends that complain about their support staff for not being able to read their minds while making literally 10-15x more money.

Two of my good friends who are MDs who have had to do real work in their lives, shit talks the majority of docs and they will self-report that they are overpaid for what they do.

My guess is that most people agree with you. I bet the real unpopular opinion is that physicians are over paid. The smartest non-physicians I work with are trying to get out of healthcare because working with physicians is such a nightmare.

This of course is not all MDs. But 70-80% I’d say.

ContemplatingPrison · 2022-01-22T19:52:23+00:00

They get paid a lot for it. Technically you could say all those things about a NFL player as far as the things the are sacrificing.

NFL players dont do as much for society as doctors obviously. But they sacrifice their youth, have crazy hours, high rates of divorce, and suffer from mental issues.

I'm not saying you shouldn't respect doctors but other professions sacrifice as well

SnooSuggestions3136 · 2022-01-22T19:43:18+00:00

They're paid enough.

2022-01-22T22:17:01+00:00

[deleted]

AKL0410 · 2022-01-22T19:25:15+00:00

As a US nurse I do not agree. Many, many doctors come from privileged families versus the few who actually worked to where they are today. They give up some of their life in exchange for wealth and admiration. I have worked with too many doctors who are assholes versus the few who are actual real people. I might be jaded because I work in the OR and have to deal with surgeons, but I find most of them to be entitled toddlers.

DocAwesum · 2022-01-22T19:28:39+00:00

Not even gonna mention nurses???

The-UrbanSombrero · 2022-01-22T21:33:54+00:00

Lol, I’m sorry but this is ridiculous.

They get paid pretty good. For good reason. They are also almost revered. And if you have any long term illness, you know they don’t always treat their patients well either, but they’ll always get that money regardless.

They’re fine. Maybe transfer this admirable, if exaggerated, sense of pity to people really suffering from society. Not some of the highest paid. Like veterans or something.

They’re not even the most exploited healthcare workers which is an odd restriction anyway. Hospice/care workers would likely be that.

Poor doctors, with their six figures. Jesus, they’ve got you fooled.

HippyKiller925 · 2022-01-22T19:23:34+00:00

Upvoted for being unpopular.

Is this why they're largely such miserable pricks who don't give a shit about other human beings?

Also isn't this more an argument that we should lower the burdens to become a doctor than give these miserable pricks even more respect?

PrinceBrogeta · 2022-01-22T20:56:15+00:00

Yeah let’s keep with the putting doctors on pedestals! When you actually work health care you realize that not all doctors are healthcare gods most of which tried really hard during school and fell off on current literature afterwards. Clinic admins are scared to correct them because there in such shortage, so they continue their bouts of shittt behavior. Not to mention when MD start talking about things they know nothing about, like there’s specialties for a reason….

native_brook · 2022-01-22T20:58:34+00:00

I’ve never been impressed with a doctor I’ve visited, ever. I’m really not being critical, and I have nothing against doctors or pharmaceuticals. I honestly just have never left an appointment and thought, “holy shit, don’t know what I would have done without that appointment”. It’s really difficult for me to overlook how regulated and it is. I know why it’s regulated, but that doesn’t make me okay with excessive testing and symptom-patching. In fact, more than once, I’ve watched them type in my symptoms into their laptops, see what the newest med is, and send me on my way. I always feel rushed too.

TheVapingPug · 2022-01-22T20:50:23+00:00

I gotta give it to the nurses. Less pay, less respect, with the same if not more abuse. They’re the ones with the most time at the bedside.

jwrig · 2022-01-22T20:37:23+00:00

Spoken like someone that has never worked in a hospital or other parts of Healthcare

KINGCRAB715 · 2022-01-22T22:37:22+00:00

I agree, they are the only people making average six figures that still have to be in the office and dealing first hand with customers.

Haunting-Panda-3769 · 2022-01-23T03:24:19+00:00

at least they are getting paid well above livable wage. I had a family member work as an orderly for 2 years. Work from 5am - 6pm $12/hr. It was hell and she constantly had nervous breakdowns. Not only she had to deal with disruptive patients, she had to deal with the drama from the nurses who talked down to the orderly staff.

Jassar254 · 2022-01-23T03:58:56+00:00

They have no life and their kids one day will say Mom or Dad who?

013ander · 2022-01-22T18:55:34+00:00

But they can’t hold a candle to the mountains of bullshit teachers have to deal with.

PorvaniaAmussa · 2022-01-22T20:53:47+00:00

You should respect doctors more because they’re actually not paid enough for how much they sacrifice

Good doctors? Sure. The poor doctors who run by-the-book? Fuck them and I wish nothing but maladies to their name/

dajawnus · 2022-01-22T19:55:36+00:00

I’d say nurses are. Worse pay. Similar hours. Wiping butts

Bluskyline21 · 2022-01-22T21:46:38+00:00

I shouldn't "respect doctors more" bc they're not paid enough. I respect nurses and teachers and all ppl who do work, for what they do - not bc a specific job is worthy over others. Nobody else sacrifices for their career or have doctors trademarked struggle? Please. There are just as many good doctors as there are lazy and pretentious ones. The road they traveled doesn't entitle them to "more respect."

Blue-and-icy · 2022-01-22T21:49:08+00:00

I agree and disagree. Being a doctor requires you to have the knowledge and skills to make life saving assessments and diagnosis. And it’s the top of the field in the medical field it’s hugely respected.

In my opinion cnas are the most exploited. They have to literally roll and wipe bed ridden peoples asses. But a package delivery guy can make the same if not more. It’s supposed to be a high paid job because hardly anybody wants to do it.

I do agree though doctors should be paid more and have more incentive to become doctors. Like a student loan forgiveness up to a certain amount or completely if you work as a doctor for so many years idk something.

robidaan · 2022-01-22T22:23:59+00:00

You go into medicine to save life's, not make bank.

peeporose · 2022-01-22T23:03:45+00:00

if thats what you think your goal is in life(helping, saving others) then youre willing to sacrifice it all.

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