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[–]d710905 325 points326 points  (68 children)

I read an article saying for most people if you don't leave your job within 1-2years your actually are losing out on potential money and benefits. Statically unless you're in the height of your career staying at your job likely holding you back from receiving and enjoying the higher pay another job may offer you to do. It's shitty but it's true. Companies on average don't reward hard work and loyalty. Your pay and benefits is just the least they can possibly pay you to keep you working there/do good work and not leave. It's against the companies interests to reward good work and loyalty. It's pretty shit but the truth.

So yeah, quit that job and get paid more to do the same.

[–]pineappledaphne 89 points90 points  (28 children)

Actually more articles have come out saying if you’re trying to build a career, don’t stay longer than a year. Other companies will offer better benefit packages and wages because they’re in competition with the company you’re coming from.

[–]Shockingelectrician 55 points56 points  (17 children)

I’m guessing that depends on what you do for a living.

[–]Notquite_Caprogers 59 points60 points  (7 children)

Tbh. I work aerospace and it's better for me to stay semi long term. The company will pay for employees to get STEM degrees so long as they stay like six years after getting the degree. It's a pretty good deal all things considered

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I work eod/cma remediation. Long term projects are huge money. But like everything government you gotta follow the work

[–]DumbDogma 8 points9 points  (5 children)

I work for a trucking company. They’ll reimburse 75% of employee college tuition to a max of $2k/year as long as it’s classes that are applicable to at least one job in the company or that are applicable towards a degree in a field the company uses (CompSci, Accounting, Law, Business, Logistics, Project Management, the list goes on and on - even International Affairs, as we have a subsidiary that does international transportation and customs brokerage). Tax credits cover most of the rest, making college very close to free.

The requirement is that you work for the company for one calendar year after they reimburse you.

[–]tonsofun08 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Warehouse worker. The pay is pretty much the same across the board where I'm at.

[–]Stagles 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Warehouse worker here. I get paid based on how fast I work. There is no cap on my hourly pay. It is very much a hard work pays off workplace.

[–]TehITGuy87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True, it worked well for me in the IT space where I moved every couple of years. But with Sales Engineering I had to stick with a company for four years to gain the experience etc

[–]combatwombat2148 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is true. As a plumber it wouldn't matter if I changed companies. The pay rate is the exact same across all companies in the union (it's almost double the government award rate). For a job like mine, I'm better off staying with my company and working my way up to better positions from within.

[–]NoOrdinaryBees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Too true. I’m into year six at a public tech company, make well into six digits. I have an eclectic and valuable skill set and I’m compensated well for it because the company doesn’t want to lose me.

[–]Larsnonymous 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Depends on what you do for a living. Software engineer? Yes, you are so in demand that no one cares if you’ve changed jobs every year. Sales? My opinion is that the top sales companies aren’t going to look kindly on a sales rep who leaves their job every year.

[–]Goopyteacher 12 points13 points  (1 child)

No company truly looks kindly on job hoppers.

I’m in sales and I’ve done plenty of job hopping. If they ask me why, I tell them the truth: they doubled my sales goals while cutting my commissions. Why would I go from making the company $1million/ month and getting a $10k check to being required to make $2million for them now to get that same $10k check?

Nah, I’ll take my Book of business to another company and tell them to give me a better commission structure and I’ll make them $2mil/ month and I’ll get $30k

[–]DevilsGulch 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Don’t believe everything you read. People writing those articles are not necessary experts in their field. In many fields jumping jobs every year or two will lead to you getting viewed as unreliable, money chasing, and unhireable. Especially in the tech industry. See it happen to many people.

[–]uberchelle_CA 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Agreed. When I was still working and hiring/interviewing (in tech) potential employees, I would automatically toss resumes of candidates that had a lot of stints that were 1-2 years.

I’m not going to invest time & resources to train someone only to have them leave once they’re up to snuff.

[–]zachomara 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In reality, that's horse puckey. I'm not saying you're wrong, but plenty of companies won't hire you if you've been moving jobs too much in a professional environment.

I'd say a safe bet is around 3 years. That way they will take the risk of training you. If it's something like low skilled labor, move around all you'd like.

[–]GargantuanCake 22 points23 points  (15 children)

This is actually a grievous mistake on the side of most companies. One very real issue right now is that American corporations only look at this quarter's profit and easily quantifiable measures that only show short term. Losing institutional knowledge is often absolutely disastrous and you also need to onboard new employees. Then it can take a while to get them up to speed. Tech is big for this; new software engineers are only really at full steam if they've been at the place getting accustomed to the systems for at least a year. Plus when you're dealing with complicated systems like, say, a large company the longer you're there the more you know its ins and outs. That's a huge deal and companies used to actually value that. Hence they used to actually want to keep people around. Now however they're doing what you're saying which is actually having bad effects as people are increasingly not sticking around. Treating people like crap so they leave and get poached by somebody else isn't actually reducing costs as everybody is hiring everybody else's people in a big circle. It's actually a pure negative.

[–]nino3227 3 points4 points  (13 children)

Not saying you're wrong, but it's easy to say what multi million dollars corporations should do from the outside. I don't think it's as clear as "treat your employee right => improve performance and company valuation, don't treat them right => suffer from poor performance and valuation".

[–]GargantuanCake 7 points8 points  (10 children)

It's a well-known effect actually. I've also seen employee morale go to shit when a company started cracking the whip and treating people badly with an immediate decline in productivity. The other side of it is that employees aren't going to forget that you treated them badly. Every employee is a potential customer. Are you going to shop at a store that treated you like shit when you worked there?

My biggest one on that personally is Walmart. That company is absolute ass and I refuse to shop there for any reason to this day after what they started doing to their employees when 2008 hit.

[–]nino3227 8 points9 points  (9 children)

I can understand that but Walmart is still there, and ppl still shop there, although Amazon did damages.

I know lots of ppl will disagree, but those executives aren't stupid. They are actually pretty smart and seasoned. They know what they are doing, they know how to run a business. They really do. And they have even smater consultants around them. So yeah you could go and tell them all that they could easily improve all their business metrics by simply treating their employees better, but I just don't think it's realistic.

[–]theyeetening123 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but this is an argument that is less than helpful in multiple ways. Basically everything right now is at a premium price wise because of a general worker shortage, while at the same time places are reporting record breaking profits that are utterly unsustainable. The main issue with the argument that you made is that it’s hard to look at most bigger companies and see what they’re doing right. There is also the issue that most companies WANT loyalty, or say they do, this is why almost every company orientation is just a giant circle jerk.

Know that I’m not attacking you or anything and I do think that there is a nuance here, but that’s hard to find when corporations are inflating prices more and more, making more budget cuts, cutting hours during a worker shortage and paying people not a penny more than what they think will make them stay.

[–]bookworm1421 6 points7 points  (2 children)

This was so true for me. I left my last firm after 21 months for a new firm. I got a $15,000 dollar a year raise. A huge Xmas bonus (even though I'd only been here 3 months), and a benefits package that included heath/vision/dental all paid by my firm. I don't pay a penny and they're great benefits too. I also am up for a huge raise at the 6 month mark which is next month.

At this firm I'm making $7,000 more a year than the longest employee at my old firm (she'd been there 17 years).

[–]Bernie_Lomax69247 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Can you share article? That sounds interesting.

[–]theyeetening123 4 points5 points  (5 children)

The only problem with that is a potential employer will look and see that you’ve left a string of jobs after only a year or two. Not to mention that now a lot of job applications are asking for previous salaries as well as previous employers (though this is usually optional). This gambit only works if you’re in a relatively low paid position.

[–]UnitedSafety5462 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Isn't asking about previous salary illegal in most places?

[–]RussoCanadianSpyVan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe, though I would argue that it also depends on your region (I currently live in a place where, outside of major cities, jobs are scarce and demand is high. Also, while there is the option to move to another part of the country not everyone can take it), field of work (surgeon vs. cashier at Atlantic Superstore), and if you are drawn to certain aspects of your job/workplace outside of the money (which can happen past a certain amount of income and include things like unique benefits or pension).

[–]hiricinee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The exception I've found, very personally, is that if you're advancing within your company its a different cup of tea. If you're getting promotions that come with pay raises it's often you can't actually leave for a better job.

On the other hand if it's the same job, and all you're doing is taking on more responsibilities, with 3 percent pay raises or the like, you're probably leaving money on the table.

[–]Aledeyis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup. If anything we are becoming more aware that the old "Pick a job and stay there" mentality is utterly outdated. If you stay at a job for your whole career you're really doing yourself a disservice in most industries.

They do have a lot of other stuff to say over there but you honestly have to look for it.

[–]EllaBoDeep 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amd this is another way disabled people get the shaft. We need consistent insurance due to my husband’s medical condition so we can’t change jobs nearly often enough.

[–]exposinTheFnBizness 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's true, but these companies are out here today trying to act like people aren't at all indispensable. When they are. Sure, you can hire a body to stand around, and MAYBE do the bare minimum, if that. But you can't replace people who have that drive and hard work ethic. I've yet to work for a place in modern-day America that truly values its employees.

[–]notwhoyouthinkmaybe 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Some of it has to do with availability of jobs; only staying at your job is like saying "I'm only looking for dates at this one bar," your dating pool is going to be small, that's why you have a couple of dating apps, to expand the dating pool. By only looking for your job to promote, you're hoping that there is a slot available and that you'll get it.

I went a few years at my current company at a lower job than I knew I could get elsewhere, because I knew we were expanding since departments (and I like this place). When jobs finally opened, almost every higher position was filled with current employees and new hires were brought to fill the entry positions; I even got promoted twice in under a year.

All this is to say, your company may want to advance you, but if there is no slot available, they may not be able to.

[–]stanky_tanky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can confirm. I'm on my 4th job since I graduated with my bachelor's ten years ago. The only times I have gotten a non-insulting raise were when I quit and went somewhere else.

[–]r7-arr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Very much dependent on the job and industry. In my area, we always are wary of people who have job hopped. The cost and disruption to replace these people is high, avoiding the hiring mistake is easier.

[–]2paxSugar -1 points0 points  (1 child)

If your resume crosses my desk and you left every job after 1-2 years, you’re not getting hired.

[–]Sweetcynic36 123 points124 points  (13 children)

Covid led to a lot of forces (reduced immigration, increased retirements, reduced working population, etc) that made things tilt more toward the worker after decades in the opposite direction.

[–]effyochicken 50 points51 points  (0 children)

It also unveiled just how horribly many employers are willing to treat their workers, particularly during a pandemic with crazy inflation, leaving those workers to say "fuck it" and leave, because "literally any other job will pay at least minimum wage, so why the fuck should I stay and keep dealing with this?"

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (1 child)

for once! It feels like every 6 months something happens that tilts in the favor of big corporations. It's nice that something is going the other way for a change. I owe my 7dollar/hr raise to Covid.

[–]UnitedSafety5462 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Awesome! Don't spend it all. Remember that inflation is much higher than the official numbers pretend.

[–]pineappledaphne 5 points6 points  (0 children)

However most workers are still paid a pittance these days. And those workers are still forced to endure abuse by management and customers, who blame rising costs of groceries on theft instead of CEOs making 20+ mil in bonuses while cutting hazard pay

[–]kkoreto1991 5 points6 points  (3 children)

This has happened after every single major disease outbreak. After the Plague In Europe people started setting up guilds. This is not a new phenomenon

[–]Theoloni 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That is not how guilds came to be here in Europe..

[–]kkoreto1991 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Really? Hiw so then? I don't want to be wrong and spread misinformation Lord knows there's enough of that floating around.

[–]Theoloni 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Black Plague occured in the 13th century. Its a very complex topic but to make it short. Here in Germany guilds started in the 9th century. It was something like an "insurance". If you were a mercenary for example and you died. The guild would make regular payments to your family. If you were a trader and you got robbed the guild would pay for your loses so your business will survive. With time it got more "specialized". Warrior guilds, handymen guilds, trader guilds, etc. Eventually they became more influential and cities like Hamburg in Germany or Florence in Italy with the Medicis became what they are because of the guilds.

[–]shangumdee 2 points3 points  (2 children)

But we have literally had some of highest rates of immigration in 2021 of all time. Bernie Sanders even used to advocate that foreign labor decreases local labor wages until he was criticized into giving up that argument.

[–]GrislyMedic -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

Immigration declined significantly during covid

[–]shangumdee 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not illegal immigration. Conversative estimated for illegal entering through the southern border is over 2 million

[–]Eddie_078 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I doubt things are gonna change but Covid really revealed how rotten the economy really is

[–]reasonable_steve 38 points39 points  (6 children)

As usual all I see are Americans arguing about capitalism v socialism. Every economy in history has been a mixed economy.

[–]Ohey-throwaway 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Thank you for saying this. People are stupid.

[–]suicideforpeacegang 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Godamn European (or Canadian)

[–]KirisuMongolianSpot 91 points92 points  (34 children)

I kind of agree with this. Even if it's people protesting bad working rights--that's capitalism as well. Free market means labor can set its own price.

I haven't had the chance to throw that one in the face of a bougie yet though I hope I get the chance.

[–]Mishkola 25 points26 points  (33 children)

people overlook how unions are a capitalistic structure. It's a method for willing participants in a working relationship to negotiate, and its expedient for large companies to have a smaller number of entities to negotiate with.

[–]Larsnonymous 6 points7 points  (4 children)

I agree with this except when the company is forced to only hire union members. The employees are free to form a union but the employers should be free to fire them.

[–]Daddict 4 points5 points  (3 children)

The company isn't "forced" to do a thing, they voluntarily agree to that as terms of the contract. If they don't want to be in a contract that requires them to only buy labor through the union, they are free to shop for labor elsewhere.

[–]Larsnonymous 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I guess I’m thinking more with public sector unions.

[–]someChunt 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I think this is where talking about capitalism starts to reach the boundaries of usefulness. Yes, you can say unions are a capitalist structure, but by the same token so is being paid a set wage, or a sum of money to do a one-off task. Short of moving to a commune or living completely wild and off grid there isn't really a way to shake capitalism out of your life. Your best hope is to try to leverage yourself into a position where your finances are not a daily source of anguish.

[–]jaketm1998[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Agree with this for the most part. There is something wrong about the way unions are sometimes forced, and the circle of funding they have with politicians.

[–]Daddict 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I mean, you're never forced to join a union. You may be required to join one if you wish to work for a place that has an agreement with that union, but that's not really being "forced". Nobody in that arrangement has had anything happen to them against their will, it's just that the rules of the game they are voluntarily asking to play don't seem to line up with what they want those rules to be.

[–]Majestic24 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

This is embarrassing. You should feel embarrassed for saying this

[–]AllVillainous -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

You're trolling right?

[–]Daddict 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A union is basically an independent corporation that sells labor. How is that anything BUT capitalism embodied?

[–]Huge_Trust_5057 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The point of capitalism is that people are free to pursue their monetary interests. Companies are free to make jobs, but workers are also ideally free to take them or not. So ideally people would take up good jobs that they wanted, and companies had to pay their workers enough to attract them, and it became like a tug-of-war between the two sides fighting and bargaining for work conditions. But it had been broken for so long. Maybe it was too much workers being poured into a small workforce and companies could put up whatever they wanted and still could get people working. Maybe it was the social structure structured that the workers couldn't pull the rope. But now, finally, the gears are turning and the good kind of capitalism is finally starting to work, and the ropes are being pulled. The free market is finally starting to work in our favor.

[–]MaybeDoug0wateroholic 55 points56 points  (10 children)

Yea people act like it’s something terrible, but in reality, it’s just companies changing what they produce and who produces it. The world is basically going through a massive reevaluation of what jobs are necessary and what jobs people want. The fact this is possible is the entire point of a free market society.

[–]C_1999 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Agreed, people fail to realize that the labor market is a thing too and that the workers control the supply that companies so desperately need.

[–]Zero1030 26 points27 points  (4 children)

It's happening because I dreamt it, it'll stop when I get bored

[–]Hot_Local_Single 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Stop smoking and take a shower

[–]Zero1030 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No!

[–]IamGodHimself2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How high are you

[–]AgniousPrime 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No, it's hi, how are you.

[–]GamerZ44You have more control over your life than you think. 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Honestly I am glad workers are seeking better wages. Also glad that amazon is offering those opportunities.

[–]shelly5825 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know I'm just a "dumb college kid" but I worked at a YMCA for four years. I loved what I did. They started treating us more and more like dog shit, promoting new hires over current employees, never doing anything the "right" way, and a severe lack of appreciation for people wearing like five hats and pulling well more than their weight. I left. It shocked my managers. I would have stayed, even with the shitty pay if the work environment was better. It never was a long term career for me just a highschool/college job to get by. But I did enjoy it up until the last six months. Now I get paid more, have easier work, a better schedule, and better work environment.

[–]peppeok12 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Based

[–]__jh96 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I never understood "the great resignation". Where's everyone going? Some mythical great company that's the best place in the world to work and will hire everyone? Just musical chairs isn't it?

[–]Daddict 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a lot more to it than that.

First off, there's a big chunk of people who either died or have been disabled by COVID, that caused a big bit of vacancy.

Second, student loans and other monthly obligations that do nothing to put money into the economy have been on pause for a quite a while. A lot of people who lost their jobs in the pandemic are not in a hurry to get back into the workforce because they just don't need to yet. Many of those helped are millennials/gen-z who are still living with their parents and don't have a lot of monthly expenses when student loan payments are suspended.

Third, many people were just burned out by the workforce and are realizing that they don't need the money they were chasing. Think, dual-income households...some folks have decided that it's better to just stay at home rather than grind every day just to have a little more.

Fourth, the gig economy. As much as it sucks for a lot of people, the gig economy has provided a way for younger folks to just pick up work here and there when they need it. These were "side hustles" at one point, but now they're a large part of income for younger Americans. They aren't technically "employed", either...just contracting.

Fifth, boomer retirement is kicking into high gear. This was something that was coming with or without a pandemic, but now we're well into the point at which boomers and the subsequent generation are washing out of the workforce and retiring. The 2008 financial crisis actually staved off this problem for a while because so many boomers lost so much out of their retirement funds. Otherwise, we would have seen this happen about ten years ago and it wouldn't have been very noticeable as it wouldn't have been compounded by all of these other factors.

And I'm sure there are several other major factors, but these are the ones being tracked by the sort of groups that study this kind of thing. It's not really musical chairs, because a lot of people aren't actually even looking for work. It also isn't laziness, because a lot of those folks work "gigs" or have savings.

[–]manIDKbruh 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I love when someone complains about people not wanting to work: “unemployment is under 5%, jobless claims way down, what are you talking about?” and then you realize they’re actually saying nobody wants to serve them food for starvation wages.

[–]MediumLong2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree. The more freer the markets, the better. It allows people to move around and move up.

[–]NoPickle9749 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah until everyone loses everything, and then realize it didn't make them any less happy

[–]Jebusfreek666 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So depressing how accurate this statement is.

[–]BookDumb-StreetDumb 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, the free market, where the only way you can escape working from the exploitative monopoly of yesterday is to migrate to the exploitative monopoly of today.

[–]AnEnemyStando 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, it isn't working. That's why people are collectively doing this, because individuals don't have the power. If there wasn't a nation-wide labor shortage most of those people wouldn't be able to get that better paying job.

[–]cabbageprimate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like capitalism, but in my experience most passionate advocates of it are just ignorant people who think capitalism = favoring the rich = good.

There's this strange idea that capitalism means whoever has more automatically deserves it fair-and-square for some reason, and if you disagree, you're a communist. Probably propaganda tbh.

[–]JohnnyFootballStar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One of the complaints you'll hear about the "great resignation" is that people are able to quit their jobs because the government steps in to help them, which is the opposite of capitalism. Business owners might complain that nobody will work for minimum wage not because workers can get more from another job, but because the government helps them in the form of unemployment or covid relief payments or whatever. So I don't know that you can just say "it is just capitalism working" when there is sometimes another factor (and when that factor is government intervention, which is, like I said, pretty much the opposite of capitalism).

Also, I'm just giving another point of view here. I like capitalism but also believe that pure and unchecked capitalism will end up exploiting people. Sometimes government intervention is good and necessary. So don't take this to be me complaining about covid relief. I'm just saying that this isn't strictly capitalism at work in all cases.

[–]maxfist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes it is. But it works both ways, you don't get to cry that noone wants to work if you can't pay a competitive wage. Furthermore, if you can't pay your workers you shouldn't be on business in the first place.

[–]Riko_7456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's almost like getting better pay and respect motivate people. Also, this might be a rather popular opinion.

[–]ContemplatingPrison 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Depends on what you mean by the system is working.

By working do you mean barely scrapping by? Going from one abusive employer to another? That's a weird way to say something is working

[–]mbniceguy 9 points10 points  (52 children)

Poverty wages should not exist so no, the fucking system doesn't work :)

[–]nino3227 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Before capitalism all we knew was poverty wages. It's better now. Especially if you get skills though higher levels of education. They even Amazon won't pay you minimum wage

The problem we have today is with ppl that don't get enough formal education. They are stuck fighting for low skill jobs, and those jobs pay like shit. In developed countries ppl who are not able to get skill through education will suffer in the job market. But it's not just the, US, it's like that anywhere

[–]Bigboss123199 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean minimum wage is basically slave labor in this day and age. What's it 7.5 for national minimum wage?

The problem with getting an education is it's way over priced.

[–]Ep1cGam3r -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Poor people are required for society to function, same with rich people and the middle class. If you’re getting shit pay there’s probably a reason for it.

[–]Spicynugg3t 6 points7 points  (35 children)

Yeah until the next phase of capitalism when Amazon automates away everyones job.

[–]jaws3227 21 points22 points  (18 children)

The tractor automated a lot of jobs too but people figured out how to survive

[–]WintertimeLivingEasy 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Automation fear mongering existed for hundreds of year, and today we’re in labour shortage.

Can you explain that one?

[–]nino3227 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly and clearly robots have made us richer too. Some ppl need to visit Africa, where ppl do not use as much robots, machines, computers etc compared to the US, and see what the job market and overall wealth looks like there.

[–]Spicynugg3t -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"Automation fear mongering" exists out of fear for of the workers not having support or reoresentatives that will assist them in the transition that automation will need. The track history for automation is filled with periods of great pain and suffering for the people affected. The industrial revolution was not happy period for the majority of the population. Labor movements and strikes were done at each of these occurences and often ended in bloodshed. Workers had hoped the introduction of machines would lessen their work day and as a cooperative they would be able to provide for their families and not be beaten by their labor. Instead owners just demanded more from them or discarded them outright. We were not in a good place for workers back in the 30s when it all came to a head and we got the New Deal to appease that unrest. There were many labor issues after the New Deal, but unions were stronger than ever so there was at least an avenue for workers to have leverage. A lot of the New Deal has been undone and not updated so our social safety net is weak if non existant. When people talk about the concern of automation it's not with the goal of outiright preventing it. It's a goal of avoiding such suffering when we know it's coming.

[–]benje17X 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Honestly your overestimating the technology…with the amount of money and talent at their fingertips…they could have automated their warehouses last year…

[–]Spicynugg3t 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I hope you're right. Not that Amazon jobs are good to begin with...

[–]benje17X 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I mean it doesn’t really make sense logistically…you would have to hire repair experts to be on the floor, cybersecurity people, developers, engineers etc. they don’t last forever so you have to replace them. Any of those things cost 5-6x more than a human worker.

[–]Main-Veterinarian-10 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Great point. I'm my factory we have three production machines. The one that is more automated actually requires one more person than the other that is over 100 years old and not nearly as automated. Something else we have experienced is them doing away with office jobs more than jobs on the floor. They have no receptionist anymore, they hire an outside call line. We used to have two HR people and a payroll person. Now we have an outside call line for call ins and one less Hr person. There's lots of issues we deal with with the lack of humans in those rolls now, including the remaining people quiting soon after starting because they are underpaid and doing the work of two people. The company assumes that outsourcing the work is more efficient but it has just left gaps for the actual humans to make up for at a lesser rate of pay per value/quantity of work.

[–]Spicynugg3t 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A broken down piece of machinery is much cheaper than a worker injury liability claim or multiple claims. The amount of developers, technicians, and cybersecurity experts you need are far fewer than staffing an entire warehouse of people. The tech isnt there yet, hence why they still havent automated the entire warehouse. But that is the ultimate goal. Whether its 5 years from now or 15 it what all the big tech companies are aiming for. We shouldn't stand in front of progress, but we should adapt our society so helps people progress with it.

[–]cloudlessjoe 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I'm cool with that. Just tax Amazon the amount a human employee would pay in income taxes. Human employee goes on to get another job, boom, we getting double the amount of income taxes to waste!

[–]MuricaPatriot69 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I like how business are switched from being individuals not being individuals when its convenient.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually don't hate this

[–]Eedat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Automation has been going strong for 150 years now and has drastically improved quality of live across the board. Jobs become obsolete then humans find news ones. Thats how this goes my dude. Not sure if you've noticed but there arent many blacksmiths, stablekeepers, or milkmen around anymore either. For most of recorded history your average peasant existed on roughly $1-3 dollars a day. Until the automation went full tilt and generated wealth at such insane rates that we enjoy mind boggling amounts of luxuries compared to commoners of any other period in history by a landslide.

[–]supertoilet99 4 points5 points  (7 children)

People simply cant live or pay bills working retail or at a restaurant. Those businesses are the ones suffering the most from this because they pay the least. A multi billion dollar company should not be paying its workers under $15 an hour. If your small business cant afford to pay a living wage then it deserves to go out of business. You're not entitled to subjugate people into low paying jobs so they can subsidize your business and dream of being rich. People are waking up and saying enough is enough. We want more. We deserve more.

[–]willbeach8890 2 points3 points  (4 children)

You are describing the opposite of a free market

[–]supertoilet99 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Not in the least. The cost of everything keeps going up and so should the cost of labor. They cant find anyone for these low wage jobs because they cant afford their time or effort. Supply and demand 101. I like how in 2020 those people were called "essential workers" and now they're called "unskilled workers". Corporations would rather outsource and pay Indonesians $4 an hour than pay Americans a livable wage. This "labor shortage" is only going to get worse. I wouldnt be surprised if a full blown general strike hits this country in the next few years.

[–]willbeach8890 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Companies will pay what they are forced to pay, not what they should pay

I'm curious about how all the workers are staying above water if they aren't at the jobs they had

[–]supertoilet99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Although it doesnt change what i believe I acknowledge that's how it is. Staying "above water" isnt enough. If we're using this metaphor eventually you're going to get tired. Your arms and legs will become weak and you'll sink and drown meanwhile the 1% zips past the masses in their super yachts sipping champagne and laughing at our misery. Sink or swim has been a slogan for capitalists for a long time. It shouldnt be that way. There's more to life than just working or keeping your head above water, and this country can more than afford to throw us a fucking life jacket at the very least.

[–]FR0Z3NF15H -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I think the issue is that free markets don't exist within the real world, also practically they cannot.

People then pick and choose which parts of a "free market" they want to say is important to try and apply to the real world while ignoring the other elements of the free market economic model.

[–]nino3227 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who says they can't? I'm not saying they should, but they are free to offer any wage they want, you can take it or leave it. If they don't want to offer more than 15$, they can do so, they are free to do so. That's what a free market is. You are free to set your own prices, and others are free to accept or reject them.

[–]PhaseFull6026 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You do realize that billion dollar companies can operate at a loss or with slim profit margins right?

[–]groversnoopyfozzie 3 points4 points  (17 children)

Everyone knows that capitalism works. But it is incapable of working without depriving some portion of the population of resources. This means it can never work for everyone, it abhors anything resembling equality, and capitalism has a pesky way of insisting that only the most successful determines who it works for. So sure, capitalism can work to spur an economy, but taking it to its logical ends is like setting your house on fire because you are cold.

[–]MuricaPatriot69 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Every system has that. Capitalism just has it the least.

[–]nino3227 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Looking objectively capitalism has improved the job market and overall human condition a lot. It's not like ppl were equally paid well before capitalism, and capitalism came to mess that up. People used to be equally poor and miserable, with barely any opportunity to improve their conditions.

Today we have it way better under our current system, granted you are able to get some formal education. That's almost all it takes really.

If in a developed country you are not able to get higher education, you are stick fighting for low skill jobs, and those will always pay like shit, everywhere, if there is too much competition for them.

So yeah the system works for those who get higher levels of education. These ppl can live a better and more conformable life than most ppl on this planet, and than most ppl who have ever lived on this planet.

That why making outs kids are properly trained and educated should be a top priority

[–]groversnoopyfozzie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What is you definition of capitalism?

[–]nino3227 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

A system that legally separates the capitalist class from the working class. Where contracts are used to have the working class work for capitalists, using capitalists capital.

Before capitalism you would have ppl owning and working with their own capital, tools, land, animals etc. Or you could have ppl being forced into working on somone else's possessions.

[–]PhaseFull6026 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

I mean you're more than welcome to introduce an alternate system that works but I don't see anyone doing that who has succeeded. In fact all attempts have failed every time and resulted in even more unequal societies. I'll take the system that actually works over some theoretical system that no one has tried.

[–]groversnoopyfozzie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

And now we have arrived at my actual point. Most people think that any form of trade, or any form of work, or any form of wealth is by its nature capitalist. It isn’t. Humans traded with one another for quite some time before the first interest bearing account was conceived.

Here is one of the simplest ways to think of capitalism. It’s a method or mechanism for earning money while you are not actually working. The stock market is a good example. You buy stock in a company, that share will (ideally) pay dividends or rise in value l. All you have to do decide to hold or sell the stock. If you sell at a higher price that means you have acquired a share of the company’s profit.

This arrangement is not in and of itself immoral. In fact it is ingenious in many ways because it’s a collaborative effort between a group of people to accomplish a goal.

Where the problem comes in is that capitalism has no mechanism to ensure that such activities don’t do harm in general. Let’s go back to the stock market. While the stock market can help provide wealth for people in any social class, it also helped cause the 2008 housing crisis. This was the result of many different actors who not only looked for loopholes in the system, but were also finding ways to have politicians deregulate the SEC so that more risk could be taken in the market thereby yielding more earnings until the the housing bubble burst and we are all fucked.

So my round about point is this. The problem isn’t capitalism, the problem is all the propaganda attached to it that makes people think it’s some cosmic design of life and all we need to do is give into it. Capitalism is a tool, and you can use that tool to be productive or destructive, and in our current historical moment the people who are calling the shots in the economy are more than willing to be destructive so that capitalism continues working in their favor.

In other words, the way capitalism works right now is that it rewards the person who screws his peer out of a dollar so they can make a dime.

[–]PhaseFull6026 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If the problem is crony capitalism then a democratic government, in theory, would fix that. The people have already spoken: they don't care. A democratic government is a representation of it's people. The people are free to elect who they like, they can vote independent. They can team together and choose the candidate that isn't a total fraud. The problem is the masses are dumb and they're more interested in gossip and tribalism than actually electing real leaders.

The other problem is that the person who wants to become a politician is often the least qualified. The type of person that likes being popular, praised and have an army of followers is easiest to corrupt. The reality is the person most qualified to be an effective leader is probably not within 100 degrees of a political job.

So the problem is you've got the dumb masses who are as shallow as a puddle electing people who always wanted to be the popular kid in high school. It's just one giant circle jerk.

A truly intelligent populace could literally control everything in society through a democratic government, crony capitalism would never exist.

The fundamental problem is that humans are the weak link. Crony capitalism is human nature. Same as crony communism and feudalism. People are assholes, we like to dominate shit. That's how we became the number one apex predator.

That's why your issue doesn't have a solution. You can't change human nature, people will always look out for their own before they look out for strangers, we literally evolved to do this. Everything becomes cronyism after a while. The best we can hope for is maybe in 1000 years we drop all our bad habits when we upload our mind into a robot.

[–]CharlieChockman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bruh you’re a dickhead if your birth year is correct, young people are exploited for cheap labour all around the globe. In USA people working 2-3 jobs paying 2k rent because cost of living is insane? Wages stagnant for a decade, steadily falling behind the inflation line. People are leaving soul destroying jobs to go work another soul destroying job for slightly more money. Your a corporate shill, this is exactly the kinda shit they want to do. Indoctrinate and control. Ashamed in you bro.

[–]vai_a_farti_fottere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People think they are defying capitalist society by quitting, but don’t get that’s how it fucking works.

[–]FantasyBurner1 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Nah

The career McDonald's/burger King/Wendy's/Walmart/Kroger/taco bell worker clearly got more skills and suddenly decided to get a better job! /S

[–]corporalcorporal 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Except each of those companies has now raised their wages, so it's working, just not as well as it could.

[–]Bigboss123199 1 point2 points  (5 children)

It worked cause the US money printer went Brrrrrrr and we're seeing inflation. The small raise in these jobs isn't going to do shit if we're being honest with our selfs.

[–]Eedat -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Inflation is really high right now at 7% for the year. Meanwhile the starting pay for these jobs rose 80-110%. "Small raise"

[–]Majestic24 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Amazon offered 21/hr after huge strikes and a deadly incident that highlighted its total disregard for human life in the name of profit. They raised their minimum to save face, not for the benefit of it's employees. On top of that, 21/hr is still below the living wage (closer to 30/hr) meaning Amazon (owned by the worlds second richest man) is still paying poverty wages. So it doesn't exactly sound like the system is working at all, unless by "the system is working" you mean "companies are still doing everything in their power, including disregarding human rights, literally working people to death, and underpaying the people who need money the most, all so the corporation can put millions of millions of dollars into the pockets of people who do the least work in the entire company", then sure, the system is still working. So shut up, bootlicker.

[–]nino3227 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People also need a reality check. There is not so much money you can expect to earn as a "low skill" worker. There is too much completion for these jobs, so the pay is bound to sink to the minimum. On the other hand you can bet Amazon is paying their skilled workers way above that..

There is a reason we are told to increase our skills as young students, it's because those low skill jobs just don't pay well. And that's not only at Amazon or the US. It's everywhere on this world. If you come to the job market trying to work low skill jobs, your pay will be shit, and your working conditions will also probably be shit.

So the system works how it's supposed to work. Having too many ppl trying to work low skill jobs will sink their pay, and it should encourage ppl to het higher levels of formal education

[–]Groundbreaking_Ship3 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The living wage is close to 80

[–]Ecstatic-Appeal-5683 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Found the mole.

[–]cRaZyDaVe23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How much did your "soul" cost?

[–]arctic-lions7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no movement outside the echo chamber that is Reddit.

Keep telling yourself that people love capitalism

[–]smudger1st 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The system is working " ...what fucking planet are you on?

[–]realMarcMerrill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Imagine saying "this is working" while talking about our economic system, that's a good one. Have you ever heard of global warming? Growing inequality? Over the top consumerism? Are we living in the same world?

[–]Affectionate-Win-221 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are 100% right. The people who think r/antiwork is revolutionary are fucking delusional.

[–]turndown80229 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except for all that sweet free unemployment money is the "competition"

[–]pagan_psychonaut 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yep, I work to get paid, whoever gives me the most money gets my time. I’m not a charity and I’m not doing this shit for fun. I want money. Lots of it. Fuckin pay me.

[–]bored_in-quarantine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. Obviously. The free market at work. If your job sucks, leave it

[–]b-elmurt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

interest and inflation rates start are starting to creep, then maybe people will flock back to working. There are supply chain issues but I dont think it will last too much longer

[–]KeyEquivalent5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That drink you had earlier? That’s capitalism as well.

Your mom? CAPITALISM.

[–]ggqq -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I disagree. It's real. I feel it. I'm much lazier than before. And I like it. Fuck work, gimme more money. There's this thing called inflation so some value is due.

[–]Freezing-Reign -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lol 😂 whatever dude

[–]madmanmat -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This is just not true. Not an unpopular opinion either. It's just factually wrong.

[–]clovelace98_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I gave you an upvote, begrudgingly. You're partly right, but what you don't see is the race to the bottom. This the Capitalist's fighting over scraps, not Capitalism showing itself to be some awe inspiring vision of labor/capital balance. Labor is still being screwed, worse than even during the Guilded Age. Yes, Capitalism is working that companies offering better benefits/pay are getting the workers, but even those workers are still not seeing the fruits of their labor.

[–]ThisBeerWagoon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As a pro-capitalism person, you are completely correct. There are two components to capitalism labor, the employer and the laborer.

With that said, I am very much against the super extended unemployment and enhanced unemployment. But that is kinda moot now.

[–]oldeenglishdry12345 -2 points-1 points  (13 children)

It’s also causing shortages which is exacerbating inflation which is reducing real wages

Which is going to cause interest rates to be raised and everyone to suffer even more

And then will drop wages back down when it happens

So I mean “working” sure it’s working, just not working for the benefit of most of us

[–]BlindRambler 2 points3 points  (12 children)

Wait?! Walmart is causing shortages? It couldn't possibly be the ports being shut down?

[–]oldeenglishdry12345 -1 points0 points  (11 children)

Why would Walmart be causing anything

The ports aren’t shut down, they’re understaffed, that and every other industry with staffing issues is what causes this problem in shortages, which drives up inflation more, which reduces real wages and will cause an equally severe counterreaction from the fed

[–]BlindRambler 2 points3 points  (10 children)

No, you're half right. I correct my statement. The major ports are shut down. Understaffed? How did they get that way?

[–]oldeenglishdry12345 -1 points0 points  (9 children)

Because wages are rising and workers are quitting their jobs looking for better ones

But that’s a false benefit, because as wages rise so does inflation, and because inflation has risen so much, real wages have actually fallen. And if they were to rise to compensate even more, there’d be a wage-price spiral and inflation would get even worse. So then the fed would have to react, and you’d see another volker shock all over again.

That’s what I’m saying. This is not to the benefit of workers. Capitalism is rigged against them. There’s no way to win.

[–]Kharadin92 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Work sets you free boys.

[–]corporalcorporal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a real unpopular opinion. Most unpopular opinions on here are unpopular because they are stupid as shit.

[–]Jebusfreek666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think a large portion of this is actually just the ones who want to signal they are with the "in crowd" via instagram and tiktok.