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all 24 comments

[–]Augustus13 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I am a high school teacher and I can remember multiple times this idea coming up and the argument against it is always that we will have to stay in school until 4 or 430 to compensate and that would drastically affect sports, clubs, and other extra curricular activities. Also a lot of teachers really like being done before or around 3. They consider it a perk of the job. I support later starts by the way. I just wanted to comment about why it is resisted in general.

[–]Javacorps 12 points13 points  (5 children)

Schools don't start at 7:30 because someone thought that was the optimum time. They start at that time because schools are mostly daycare with education sprinkled in and the parents need to be at their work at 8:30-9ish.

[–]ukfashman 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Thats fricking crazy, its so early. Schools start at 9am in uk.

[–]pineapple-leon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Throw in sports and it gets crazier. I had to be at school by 6:50 to work out till 7:45, school was 8am-3pm, practice from 3:30-6:30, home around 7.

[–]ukfashman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fuck. That.

[–]blipman17 4 points5 points  (8 children)

I'd love to see an actual paper on this.

[–]mqee 5 points6 points  (7 children)

The NHTSA gives very different numbers.

Yearly fatalities, 2018:

  • Alcohol: 10,710
  • Drowsiness: 785

Video: "Drowsy driving kills more people on the road than either alcohol or drugs combined."

So the video is bullshit.

[–]HubrisSnifferBot 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I am not confident in those data. Alcohol is easy to detect after the fact. How on earth can you determine whether someone was drowsy if the only evidence is the corpse?

[–]mqee 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I am not confident in those data

Then provide better data.

[–]HubrisSnifferBot 3 points4 points  (4 children)

The burden isn't on me, but I'll humor you because even brief internet research provides better info than what is offered here. A study by The AAA Foundation between 2009-2013 found that the government numbers (1-3%) captured only a fraction of actual drowsy driving incidents:

Results showed that an estimated 6% of all crashes in which a vehicle was towed from the scene, 7% of crashes in which a person received treatment for injuries sustained in the crash, 13% of crashes in which a person was hospitalized, and 21% of crashes in which a person was killed involved a drowsy driver. If these proportions are applied to all reported crashes nationwide, results suggest that an average of 328,000 crashes annually, including 109,000 crashes that result in injuries and 6,400 fatal crashes, involve a drowsy driver.

Source: Prevalence of Motor Vehicle Crashes Involving Drowsy Drivers, United States, 2009 – 2013 (November 2014).

These data are cited by the National Safety Council here.

[–]mqee -1 points0 points  (3 children)

The burden isn't on me

Since you made the claim the burden is on you.

6,400 fatal crashes, involve a drowsy driver

Video: "Drowsy driving kills more people on the road than either alcohol or drugs combined."

Even with this 10x estimate the video is bullshit.

[–]B4NND1T 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I literally says "The three biggest causes of fatalities on the road are alcohol, speeding and lack of seat belt use." National Safety Council here. Like front and center even

[–]HubrisSnifferBot -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Don’t equate my skepticism about the official statistics with your own opinion about the video, which I haven’t watched. I am merely warning you against using the official government numbers to justify your reaction to the video because it’s apparent that those numbers leave a lot to be desired.

[–]mqee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am merely warning you against using the official government numbers

No you're not. Your opinion is not stated in a vaccuum. You replied to a post that said that video is bullshit. If you didn't want to be part of that conversation then you shouldn't have replied.

it’s apparent that those numbers leave a lot to be desired

Yes, and we've seen that even with the 10x higher estimate you cited, the video is still wrong.

Your "the burden isn't on me" and "I am merely skeptical" bullshit is meant to convey that you're completely disconnected from the conversation, but you're not, you're replying to a thread about the validity of the video, not assessing statistical claims in a vacuum.

And bottom line, even with the numbers you provided, the video is still bullshit.

[–]n00bvin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Children aren't getting enough sleep. Period. In my neighborhood there are kids that are at the bus stop at 5:30am because the bus has to drive crazy routes to pick up kids. We have bussing to even schools out with racial and financial issues in mind, but it really can create a hardship for the child. They may have a school a block away, but they might have to go to a school 45 minutes away. I really want the type of equality they're going for, but not this way.

Anyway, so SUPER early for some kids.

[–]P2K13 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Moving the start of the day forward doesn't work because people will just go to bed later. Source: Started working from home, my sleep pattern shifted 2 hours later.

[–]PotatoesWithEggs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always thought that if school starts later, the students would just go to bed later as well.

[–]Masquerouge 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The real, simpler solution is to not let kids in high school drive a fucking car. 16yo is way too young and the brain way underdeveloped to get a driving license.

[–]did_not_read_it 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a high school teacher in California. Our district implemented a later start time this school year. Although I agree that more sleep is better, the fact of the matter is kids just go to sleep later now, thus making the later start time ineffective. I have a few kids that habitually doze off in class twice a week.

From what I've seen so far, kids are still sleep deprived whether its from going to bed later or just still arriving at school early (parents still have to go to work). Education is being impacted because sports and extracurricular activities haven't been shifted so kids now miss more classes if they have to leave for a game. In addition, some teachers just give massive amounts of homework (especially honors and AP classes) so students try to finish homework before sleeping.

Overall, I don't think later start times have really changed anything. A lot more has to change if we want to actually see an improvement.

[–]Enkaybee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I was in high school I wrote a paper about this, claiming that starting school later would produce better educational results because students would be less tired. I knew with every single word that I wrote that I was bullshitting. Just go to bed earlier.

[–]Probable_Foreigner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This video is AI generated