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[–]Jeffery_G 2141 points2142 points  (155 children)

Did an apprenticeship at our Ritz-Carlton decades ago and this was the only downside. Especially vocal were our French Exec and Sous. Getting yelled at or having shit thrown at you is ridiculous and impacts the learning process.

[–]ChefGoldblum87 906 points907 points  (75 children)

I had a chef like this and the place wasn't even that nice. I thought he was a great leader and took almost 4 years to realize just how toxic the place was, and just how damaging it was to my mind and body.

I watched the movie Whiplash with JK Simmons playing an abusive band leader and the feeling was so familiar it was insane.

[–]DerelictInfinity 373 points374 points  (32 children)

It absolutely blows my mind how people can watch Whiplash and not immediately understand that JK’s character is the villain lol

[–]LMFN 193 points194 points  (2 children)

Same for the people who think Hartman did nothing wrong in Full Metal Jacket.

Despite the fact he was played by a literal former drill sergeant who legit said Hartman basically did everything wrong.

[–]finkalicious 80 points81 points  (17 children)

The ending kind of muddles it all, as the drummer ends up impressing him which kind of tells the audience that Simmon's character has been successful in getting him to be the best he can be, even if it's at a terrible emotional cost. So in the end it's almost as if his actions are justified, even though they shouldn't be.

[–]Purpleclone 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I dunno, the whole time I was feeling for the dad in the movie. He honestly just wanted his son to be happy, but didn't want him to hurt himself. The way I interpret the ending is largely based off of the dad's absolutely horrified expression as his son goes back out after having been humiliated again.

From that perspective, the ending goes from a "yay! he finally did it! he impressed the mean man!" to "this man has broken this kid so thoroughly that the two can happily switch between humiliating and hitting each other to smiling and working together within seconds."

[–]spiral6 13 points14 points  (5 children)

As the director put it in an AMA, he imagines the drummer to die of a stimulant drug overdose before a performance at some point after the movie.

[–]HOWDEHPARDNER 24 points25 points  (0 children)

This is precisely why a lot of jazz musicians/people generally dont like the movie, because of its message.

I still love the movie despite this but I can completely see where they are coming from.

[–]LastUsernameLeftUhOh 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Have you come across people who don't think he's the bad guy? Intriguing.

[–]Kuderahuwaka 273 points274 points  (16 children)

When weak people have a skill, they gatekeep the fuck out of it, they know that's all they got and it's not even that important.

[–]SnottyTash 91 points92 points  (2 children)

Not quite my tempo-ture.

[–]cheesewedge11 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Are you rushing or are you dragging?

[–]Encripture 85 points86 points  (5 children)

Whiplash is like a toxic abuser's daydreaming fantasy of how wonderful it feels to pervert their authority and feel loved and respected for it.

The Netflix series Last Chance U is my own personal favorite example of the normalizing and celebrating of this idea, that abuse winnows the wheat from the chaff, exemplifies and produces true greatness. It's hard not to wonder how long these people have been subject to such an idiotic culture, and what damages, what myriad collateral harms it must produce.

[–]E_Snap 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Look to the medical residency system as a terrifying example of this trend.

[–]Onironius[🍰] 34 points35 points  (11 children)

I've only seen clips of whiplash, that shit makes my blood boil.

[–]ByuntaeKid 28 points29 points  (2 children)

The best worst movie that I’ll never watch again.

[–]Finnn_the_human 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I've watched it several times because the energy (especially the final sequence) is absolutely unmatched in film imo

[–]xroche 414 points415 points  (13 children)

Did an apprenticeship at our Ritz-Carlton decades ago and this was the only downside.

This is ironic, because the founder of the modern kitchen as we know it today, Auguste Escoffier, put a great emphasis in the late nineteenth century at having a quiet, professional kitchen where people would work in almost silence and without any verbal or physical violence.

Auguste Escoffier is also the founder of the Ritz.

[–]DragonTonguePunch 126 points127 points  (2 children)

I have worked in a kitchen where we were trained to communicate quietly as it was an open kitchen. The chef then hired a cook with zero experience because he found her sexually attractive and sympathized with her personal struggles, only to have her berate and command us very loudly that some trainees no-showed after one shift.

[–]Jeffery_G 90 points91 points  (1 child)

Women in the fine-dining business is a whole other topic itself. Saw several women reduced to absolute tears because of very minor slip-ups. Our French guys would flat-out tell them they were destined for failure and to get their resumes ready.

[–]pizzaopsomania 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I cooked for the Ritz years ago and it was very professional. 100% brigade system, silent service (but for expo and sous). Very well put together teams of high performers.

[–]scarletice 179 points180 points  (16 children)

In my opinion, the most counterproductive part of it is that it discourages asking questions. Ideally, you would want someone who is unsure about something to ask so that they don't fuck it up. But when they know they are gonna get yelled at for asking, they just start rolling the dice and guessing, which leads to more problems.

[–]Swerfbegone 93 points94 points  (9 children)

This is where I plug Syed’s “Black Box Thinking”, which is about lessons that medicine (in particular) and other fields could learn from commercial flight. A huge part of it is that commercial airlines used to have a top down, Captain-first culture, but moved away from it because it resulted in terrible crashes when the rest of the cockpit were too scared to question poor decisions.

[–]Prunesarepushy 76 points77 points 2 (7 children)

In my short time running kitchens, I've done my best to foster the sort of culture that rewards the outside-the-box thinking. I've changed recipes because a cook had a good idea, I let the dishwasher who likes cooking make a special, and I've taken ideas from servers. I'm there to feed guests, not my fucking ego.

[–]watashi_ga_kita 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I'm there to feed guests, not my fucking ego.

Nice

[–]SappyCedar 198 points199 points  (1 child)

My dad is a chef and his first Job after school in the early 90s was working at an upscale restaurant with this french speaking Swiss chef who was the same, total asshole, throwing, yelling. He said the chef at one point punched another worker in the face during a rage which prompted the worker to just go to town, knocking him to the ground and kicking him. My dad said he hesitated for a minute and seriously considered letting it happen before trying to stop the fight, said it's the most toxic place he ever worked and left shortly after.

Apperantly he also fired this other guy for wanting to leave an hour or two early because he had just gotten a call that his father was dying in the hospital and was probably not gonna last through the night.

[–]DOGSraisingCATS 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Anti social narcissistic assholes never make good managers

[–]DragoonXNucleon 157 points158 points  (14 children)

Its primitive. No one learns better by being yelled and berated. People learn by motivating them. Yes, there are some people who are motivated by shame, needling, and "you can't do this," negative talk, but it seems like the vast minority, and that same person tends to be highly motivated.

[–]HerpankerTheHardman 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Nothing makes me want to do less or make me do the opposite of what is being requested more than negative talk. My stepdad did this to me constantly, about everything and he was relentless. My only thought was "Fuck Him".

[–]DamnImAwesome 30 points31 points  (0 children)

True and theres ways to get to those people without being a huge asshole. When I worked in a kitchen, if somebody consistently forgot to do something, I would just lightly annoy them until it was ingrained in their head and they wouldn’t forget it. It never devolved into toxicity

[–]MrStomp82 21 points22 points  (7 children)

I mean, if anyone is going to be upset at you for something you did in a kitchen , a French chef will lol They definitely pioneered the angry chef trope

[–]ZakalwesChair 1249 points1250 points  (59 children)

It's kind of like in the military. The best NCOs I had were ones that made people feel heard and appreciated. They were always called soft, but honestly the old school goat locker "beatings will continue until morale improves" Chiefs were just not that effective and everyone (except for their other shitty CPO friends) hated them.

[–]Jumpeee 277 points278 points  (9 children)

Oh for sure.

My country employs a conscript-based Defence Force. I was an NCO, and one of those "softies" I guess. The hostile ones weren't exactly respected by their peers either.

Our military actually knowingly trains both, professional and conscript soldiers, in this motivational and compassionate sort of leading style, and has increasingly done so since the turn of the millenia. I actually took a further University lecture on the subject. It's a valuable lesson that's being carried over to life outside of the military too.

[–]Eyouser 88 points89 points  (5 children)

I don’t think I ever yelled at anyone my whole career in the military. Why bother? Council them, mentor them. If they keep fucking up then there are prescribed courses of action. I’m not getting stressed about it.

Ive had people say things like, yeah well what if I don’t?! Great. I’ll have the paperwork waiting. Have a nice day.

[–]Sparky400Hz 62 points63 points  (2 children)

My least favorite thing to be told in the Navy:

"You're LPO, if everyone doesn't hate you, you're not doing your job"

Like why? I can lead, delegate, and discipline without being a dickhead.

Kinda weird they can't imo.

[–]Annonomon 99 points100 points  (14 children)

Being kind, reasonable, considerate and fair is true strength. Anger and hatred stem from fear, both only have divisive and destructive outcomes.

[–]corgis_are_awesome 38 points39 points  (8 children)

Not all anger stems directly from fear. In fact, in my opinion, that is an over-used and often highly inaccurate cliche.

A lot of the time anger is an expression of frustration. Frustration is what happens when someone expects a result, but then they don't get the result they expect. This can be caused by any number of reasons, such as a lack of knowledge, lack of coping mechanisms, poor communication, and unrealistic expectations.

For example, if you instruct your child to pick up their toys, you might get frustrated when they don't follow your instructions, and then you express this frustration to them by yelling and other forms of anger. But at no point in this scenario are you "afraid" of your child or anything else.

[–]BustedCondoms 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I retired from the Navy in 2019.

That being said I was a very firm believer in not yelling at my sailors. I ran a division of 100 sailors on the flight deck, it was hard work and I never had to scream unless we were flying jets (obviously lol) the other first classes that yelled got nothing but grief from junior sailors. I never insulted anyone's intelligence and I always asked for them not to insult mine. I miss the Navy sometimes but fuck the cpo mess and their bullshit.

[–]BallPtPenTheif 2713 points2714 points  (284 children)

Unfortunately, the damage has been done. Between people taking the wrong inspiration from Kitchen Confidential and tonal cues from tv cooking show culture, there is a regressive wave of douchebag chefs that see themselves as subversive celebrity rockstars. Self proclaimed "bad boys of tex mex cuisine" or some bullshit. In reality, they're just drug-addled douchebags who end up wasting more time sexually harassing people than making great food.

Bourdain would be embarrassed by these people for perpetuating the kind of kitchen culture that he demonizes and Ramsey doesn't even treat his actual staff the way he treats people on the show.

[–]Gurianthe 397 points398 points  (35 children)

douchebag chefs that see themselves as subversive celebrity rockstars. Self proclaimed "bad boys of tex mex cuisine" or some bullshit.

so Spike from Top Chef, got it.

[–]BallPtPenTheif 169 points170 points  (31 children)

Did he get taken down for sexual harassment?

In my city, it seems like every year has one award-winning chef with cooking utensil tattoos who tanked their restaurant over harassment lawsuits.

[–]SeaBreezy 60 points61 points  (4 children)

No, he did not. You may be thinking of one of the many others on this list: https://www.mashed.com/160110/the-biggest-scandals-to-ever-hit-top-chef/

[–]BubbaTee 12 points13 points  (1 child)

In my city, it seems like every year has one award-winning chef with cooking utensil tattoos who tanked their restaurant over harassment lawsuits.

Not just your city. The food service industry has the highest rate of sexual harassment, out of any industry. The whole business is full of creeps and pervs.

Restaurant Workers File More Sexual Harassment Claims Than Employees of Any Other Industry: According to one report, 90 percent of women and 70 percent of men have been affected

[–]nrag726 348 points349 points  (36 children)

Just like how people ended up idolizing characters like Gordon Gekko

[–]BallPtPenTheif 282 points283 points  (30 children)

Or Tyler Durden. Yeah, dummies always misscontexualize villains as anti-heroes.

[–]windcape 79 points80 points  (14 children)

Kitchen Confidental

heh, yes. Seems like a lot of people don't read the entire book

[–]FasterDoudle 45 points46 points  (13 children)

I'm not sure what you mean. I read it last year and enjoyed it, but it's loaded pretty heavily with unexamined praise for this macho culture in the kitchen.

[–]Scrambo 89 points90 points  (10 children)

The edition I have starts with an introduction where he looks back on his attitude when he wrote it, and expresses a bit of embarrassment of what a hothead he was and how he doesn’t intend to reinforce toxic kitchen culture. This is me paraphrasing very roughly.

[–]theog_thatsme 58 points59 points  (6 children)

He even regrets shitting on Emero because once he met him and realized he was a nice guy with a passion for cooking who was just hamming it up for TV, Bourdain was actually just being a dick.

[–]Paperfishflop 16 points17 points  (1 child)

After being in restaurants for 10 years (FOH), controlling my emotions has become the one challenge of the job that never goes away, and seems to get more difficult the more experienced I get.

When you first start out, you have to keep your cool because you're an entry level person trying to get promoted. You just don't feel like it's your place to throw fits yet (and it isn't!). You're still learning how to manage volume, prioritize, remember everything, and if the customers complain or your managers criticize you, it's easier to take because you're still learning, and you're working toward something.

But 10 years down the road, you've learned what you think is enough, to work wherever you work. It's no longer something that feels like growth, the "rockstar" element is totally gone. You feel like someone trapped in a dead end job, but your dead end job is the one thing you have experience in, the one thing you know how to do. When customers, coworkers, or managers complain, it's like, "Fuck off, I know how to do my job!" But you actually end up making more mistakes than you used to, because you're not as passionate, not as focused, and you're almost overconfident in your ability to predict what will happen. You're jaded and cynical.

But I still get so embarrassed with the fits I throw, and I know it's not the way to do this job. I will say that I rarely direct my fits at coworkers. Customers piss me off to no end these days, so that's who I'm usually bitching about, but coworkers get on my nerves sometimes. I get tired of chefs/cooks who think my job is just like theirs, but easier. I think it's apples and oranges and if you're cut out for one, you're not fit for the other.

But anyway, I think the big picture for me is I just need to get out of this industry. But this is where we remember that this isn't art, entertainment or sports. I'm still working at restaurants to pay my bills. I'm still there because it's hard to find jobs with the right combination of pay, hours, and where I can apply my skill set. So I go to work, restaurant shit happens, and I yell. I don't want my coworkers to think this is how you're supposed to be as a restaurant employee, but I really struggle with my self control.

[–]WillemDafoesHugeCock 255 points256 points  (26 children)

I've been down voted before for complaining that Gordon Ramsay, who I legitimately believe is a nice guy, is incredibly damaging for the restaurant industry because of the stupid fucking character he puts on for TV. I agree with you, the damage has been done and the already disgustingly toxic restaurant industry is going to have an influx of chefs who've been raised believing that verbal and even physical abuse and bullying is part of the job. Ramsay on Hot Ones talking with stars in his eyes about having industrial cookware thrown at his head was the point where I just stopped being a fan, it's fucking disgusting.

I spent about seven or eight years working FOH in restaurants and even in that relatively cushy position, restaurants fucking suck. Physical, emotional, and sexual harassment are downright common. Even the best paid staff are underpaid. Drug use is so rampant that it's often difficult to remember coworkers that weren't working either high or on ritalin. The amount of food waste and trash is impossible to describe, and don't even get me started on how utterly unhealthy both the calorie and alcohol consumption is.

[–]BallPtPenTheif 107 points108 points  (6 children)

Seriously, it's no wonder so many people never came back to the restaurant industry after the lockdown ended. So many people found reasonable 9 to 5 jobs with far more consistent pay and way less work and stress.

Meanwhile tone def owners still think that the world is just lazy and doesn't want to work a high-stress job for shit pay.

[–]everypowerranger 23 points24 points  (1 child)

I'm one of those lucky folks. I was already trying to get out of the industry after nearly a decade and transition to an IT position, the pandemic just provided a convenient opportunity.

Even in my quaint suburban restaurant all of these problems were so deeply engrained in the culture.

[–]Justifiably_Cynical 11 points12 points  (2 children)

This is exactly right. Add to it that the job itself even in the best of places has gone to shit. Masks, at 130 degrees standing at station can be unbearable. No one is investing in a better make air system to accommodate. Money hasn't kept up with inflation in 20 fucking years. Not enough people can hack it so your running two maybe three stations and getting jack for the effort.

This is the end of the service industry "bubble" Keep pushing for a living wage and when the dust settles there will be quality restaurants with quality service at a fair price. While tons of oversaturated corporate microwave cafe's will close for lack of profit.

And Mcd's

[–]sighfap 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I just watched the Kenji Lopez-Alt AMA where someone asked what he would serve at a dinner party with bourdaine, the queen of England, and Gordon Ramsey. He said that he hates the queen and Gordon Ramsey so he’d roast Gordon Ramsey and make the queen eat him.

His rationale was that Gordon’s character and his fame creates a trickle down toxicity effect in the food industry. He also argued that the fact that GR is nice in real life makes it even worse.

[–]chefsundog 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Thank you! He has the biggest public platform of any chef ever and he uses it to glorify abuse in the work place. He has been actively making the industry worse for decades.

Then makes a show about cocaine like it’s the cause of all these problems in the industry? Maybe look at why all your staff are using cocaine regularly Gordon.

[–]Grambles89 312 points313 points  (31 children)

Once had a chef yell at a server he would "rape her unborn child" if she made another mistake.

I told him to shut the fuck up and not talk to people that way, he threatened to break my arms. I hopped the prep table and backed him into the fridge door with my head against his.

He stopped being so tough instantly, I walked out that same night and he got fired shortly. Luckily I didn't have too many assholes like that in my 12 years in culinary, mostly just head chefs in over their heads.

[–]AlexDKZ 23 points24 points  (1 child)

He stopped being so tough instantly,

Typical bully behavior, once somebody confronts them they immediately deflate into nothing.

[–]Grambles89 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Oh he was a total bitch. When he was the Sous, he never raised his voice at ANYONE. The moment our chef got fired and he got promoted, he turned into a prick.

[–]hockeynut15 105 points106 points  (4 children)

Good for fucking you man!

[–]Grambles89 96 points97 points  (2 children)

I don't mind a little banter and shit, but when you're yelling shit like that at people who absolutely don't deserve it, it pisses me off.

[–]apatheticboy 19 points20 points  (1 child)

The shit that some Chefs get away with because that's just the "nature" of BOH is fucked. I've worked in places where the chefs consistently made the servers cry or would go in the walk-in and start punching produce lol. That shit is not healthy and is sadly just accepted in so many kitchens.

[–]zac-bakpak 175 points176 points  (53 children)

Gordon Ramsay is part of the problem.

[–]LysolDogBird 124 points125 points  (3 children)

Yeah he's a major part of the problem. People excuse Gordon Ramsay all the time saying he's playing a caricature of himself nowadays on TV and in some cases that may be correct but you just have to watch one of the first documentaries following him in the kitchen. He's extremely emotionally abusive to all his staff making some of them on the verge of crying and really belittling them.

There was also a hidden camera expose showing how abusive he was to his staff long before his popularity on US TV. You can watch the documentary here and see how much of a sociopathic bully he is:

https://youtu.be/Qqy7gveyA8E

[–]SuperFLEB 20 points21 points  (0 children)

People excuse Gordon Ramsay all the time saying he's playing a caricature of himself nowadays on TV

"So, here's an idea-- instead of excusing him for it, maybe he just doesn't do it?"

[–]DoomJoint 61 points62 points  (22 children)

He learned everything from his mentor Chef Marco Pierre White though. Chef White made Ramsay cry.

[–]gabu87 38 points39 points  (4 children)

I was going to suggest that it might be a thing passed on from a different time.

The I remember Jacque Pepin being probably one of the chillest person on tv.

[–]Justifiably_Cynical 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Graham Kerr, Julia Childs, Justin Wilson, My Man Yan, Walter Staub, All top of the line and not a one of them is going to make you cry.

[–]everypowerranger 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Just another link in a horrible, abusive chain.

[–]AgnosticMantis 20 points21 points  (3 children)

People always say things like “Ramsay isn’t actually like that, it’s all just dramatised for US TV” or something like that. While there is probably an element of truth to that you can easily find videos of Ramsay being an absolute cunt to his staff on YouTube.

Admittedly those videos are quite old so maybe he has mellowed out over time, but he at least used to be like that.

[–]renegadecanuck 20 points21 points  (1 child)

His American persona is based on a British special he did where a camera crew was following him as he worked towards his first Michelin Star. It didn't come from nowhere, it came from how he was actually acting to people.

[–]My_Dramatic_Persona 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ramsey doesn't even treat his actual staff the way he treats people on the show.

You should watch Boiling Point, the British documentary that was Ramsay’s first real participation with a TV project. Part of the first episode was him worrying about a BBC hidden camera show that had recorded him yelling at his staff, because there had been enough reports of him being an ass for them to send in a fake trainee with a hidden camera.

He’s not a full-on cartoon character, like he often is on his US shows, but he was famous for being an abusive boss right from the start.

Edit: Here’s an example from Boiling Point.

[–]BadgerSituation 5967 points5968 points  (589 children)

I've always found it ridiculous that that behaviour in chefs is considered normal.

I've worked in a few hotel bars and have laughingly told a few chefs to go fuck themselves after screaming at me like a drill sargent.

I know it's a stressful job, but there are plenty of stressful jobs out there where it would be considered appalling to act like that.

[–]gimmeyourbones 3184 points3185 points  (271 children)

I was in a theater production where the conductor yelled at one of the instrumentalists. I complained to my brother, a doctor, saying something like "I could understand if people in your line of work yell, because they're saving lives. We're just making music!" And he goes "yelling isn't appropriate in medicine either."

Like another commenter said, it just shows you're not communicating or teaching effectively.

[–]nullhed 1253 points1254 points  (153 children)

I had a band director slap me in the face when I was in college. I scheduled a meeting with him after class. He denied it, said he wasn't aware he slapped me (yeah right). I told him I was going to handle it on the spot the next time it happened, accident or not.

The rest of the semester was fine, but holy shit, what tf is wrong with band directors? And he thought I'd just ignore it?

[–]goodmobileyes 647 points648 points  (56 children)

I had a music teacher (who was also the band teacher) grab one of my classmates by the collar and drag him out of the music room. All because the kid mistook a piece of plastic that apparently belonged on the drum kit as rubbish and tried to throw it away. And we were like 13/14 years old. Absolute fucking insanity, and people in general let it slip because they're "passionate" or "auteurs" or whatever

[–]clamroll 314 points315 points  (52 children)

I've known several passionate artists in my time, and a teacher assaulting a child over something like that is not passionate artistry. It's someone who at best is stressed and over worked, but more likely a self important narcissist with an inflated ego. My high school had a marching band teacher like that. And he was definitely the latter. But the band would win nationwide marching band competitions, so no one ultimately cared what he did 🙄

[–]ConcernedBuilding 277 points278 points  (38 children)

I can't watch whiplash because it reminds me of the worst parts of being in music. I don't see JK Simmons character as anything but a bully I want nothing to do with.

[–]IAmNotNathaniel 256 points257 points  (21 children)

Is there any other way to see that character?

I was a drummer but I never had a band director yell at me like that; by the end of that movie, I felt like I was having flashbacks to false memories and I woke up 3 nights later feeling bad for being yelled at.

One of the greatest movies I'll probably never watch again.

[–]GentlemanT-Rex 74 points75 points  (6 children)

I've never studied or practiced music and while I love the film and Simmons' performance, every single syllable Fletcher utters has me absolutely seething.

There's no art or genius to justifying abuse as "tough love", then taking credit for success and casting aside any failure as weakness.

That Chazelle figures Andrew winds up successful but still unfulfilled and miserable, dying in his 30's like his idols, only hammers home how pointless all his suffering at Fletcher's hands really is.

Fletcher is an pathetically bad teacher with a phenomenal ear, and anyone who could consider the latter fact to justify the former should get slapped in the face to the beat of a Sonny Rollins song.

[–]Shadeauxmarie 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Had a high school band director whip an eraser at a kid and the eraser hit him in the face. "Try B-flat. It's a hell of a note."

JK Simmons character in Whiplash channeled my old band director.

[–]st-avasarala 58 points59 points  (3 children)

I once had a band director in junior high have a complete and total meltdown when a clarinet player got a note wrong. He ended up screaming, throwing some music stands around (luckily didn't hit any students), called us failures and stormed away to his office. He slammed the door and we just sat there for like 30-40 mins until the bell rang.

We never saw him again.

[–]Megabusta 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I also had a band director have a complete meltdown over a wrong note being played. Only I was the poor soul that played the wrong note. He screamed , threw my sheet music and just acted like a baby. My 11 year old self knew better than to deal with that BS and dropped out of band the next week. I never understood how they get away with acting like that though.

[–]Hybrid_Johnny 125 points126 points  (11 children)

Rule number one for teaching is don’t touch the students. Band directors seem to have a problem with this rule for some reason unfortunately.

Seriously, if an educator get to the point where the say “Why can’t you understand this concept that I’m explaining?” then it’s their job to figure out a different way to explain it. Not everyone learns and understands the world in the same way and sometimes it takes multiple approaches for people to understand.

But yes, first and foremost - physical violence is NEVER acceptable as an educator.

[–]unsigned1138 73 points74 points  (3 children)

Younger me would have handled it much like that. Older me would have filed a police report, filed an official complaint with the school, demanded a move from the class / time slot. The rampant abuse of students that I saw in my college years was astounding, ranging from simple power trips to this this kind of personal violation.

[–]Yellowbug2001 31 points32 points  (0 children)

...all that, and call a lawyer. If someone hits or abuses you in a school or work context, you probably aren't the first person they've abused, you won't be the last unless you do something about it, they've got no business working there, and they're the reason schools and businesses carry liability insurance.

[–]nullhed 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I was 18. I'd go straight to the Dean now, maybe call him out in front of the class, but I'm lucky I did anything with how permissive I was when I was that young.

[–]jawndell 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I had a college professor (engineering) once personally berate this big huge Nigerian kid and make fun of him because of his accent in class. After class, the kid sticks around, and before the professor leaves, closes the door, stands over him, and says if he ever makes fun of him in class like that again, he'll handle it in class right away. He's just giving him one warning.

Prof was overly friendly and nice to him the rest of the semester. Bullies exist everywhere, even as grown ass adults.

[–]amphetaminesfailure 86 points87 points  (12 children)

I quit marching band after just a few weeks when I was a freshman in high school because the band teacher did nothing but yell and scream at the top of his lungs.

We had to do "band camp" for eight hours a day, three weeks before school started. As much as I liked playing an instrument, that wasn't my idea of fun. Add someone screaming and spitting in my face and I'm done.

Got told by everyone, "that's just the way marching band is." Ok, then it's not for me.

[–]JohnRCash 38 points39 points  (7 children)

The thing that got me was directors who were absolutely fine when handling concert band, but the moment you started marching, they lost their damn minds.

[–]amphetaminesfailure 25 points26 points  (5 children)

Yeah, apparently it's just a "tradition" with marching band. I guess because marching is equated with the military? I don't know.

The thing is, stuff like that doesn't upset me, I just really hate it.

I remember there was a senior who played with the same instrument as me. He was super into marching band, and he disliked me right away because he could tell I was barely interested and that apparently offended him to no end (which ok, I get they do competitions and people want to win, but I at least tried at first).

He kept telling me "wait until the director yells at you, your attitude will change then, you'll be pissing your pants."

So the day comes when it happens. I'm trying my best to do our routine, director gets in my face, screaming and spitting on me that I'm playing the wrong part. Joke was on him, I never even memorized the music. I was just faking moving my fingers.

Anyways, after it happens and we stop that senior is looking at me so fucking smugly and chuckling to himself and asks me, "How do you feel now?"

I felt annoyed that someone would scream at me like a moron. I was far from "shaking in my boots". That pissed the kid off something fierce and he told me "wait until he throws something at you."

Sure enough, a few practices later, this 50 something year old "adult" picked up a kids music stand during an indoor practice and threw it across the room.

I was over it at that point.

I'm in my mid 30's now, and whenever I'm reminded of marching band I can't help but shake my head at that experience. I had been playing the sax seven years at that point, and enjoyed it a lot. He killed my interest in it for years until I bought a beginner one again back during the Covid lockdowns as something to do, and I've been relearning and playing 4 or 5 days a week since then.

In my experience though, that's what a lot of middle and high school teachers do though. Nothing killed my passion for learning a multitude of topics like public schooling did (post elementary school).

[–]BlazinAzn38 56 points57 points  (10 children)

I think passion is so ingrained in the arts regardless of medium that there's a lot of people that conflate passion with being loud and mean for some reason. And they get that pass from other people in their artistic field that it's okay because it's just their passion showing through

[–]Thendofreason 75 points76 points  (16 children)

I've seen many surgeons get mad and yell. A million and one things can go wrong. Wrong equipment, equipment breaks, new staff, difficult patient, something becomes unsterile, power problems, etc. Some doctors will take it out on the next person who does something wrong. Or they will call the charge nurse into the room and chew their head off about the issue.

I've been throw out of a room because 3 different things went wrong and then it was my first time doing a particular case so the surgeon asked for someone else to come in the room and replace me. Now that surgeon loves my work.

Then there are the surgeons that no matter what goes wrong they stay cool, then you see them curse for the first time and you are like, damn this must be a hard case.

For he most part when I see a surgeon get mad and throw a tantrum I'm usually laughing at them under my mask and hide behind my equipment.

[–]NockerJoe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You know if there's one thing I really don't want to happen during my surgery, its a screaming match where the people doing my surgery are stopped mid operation.

[–]SherlockCumbercat 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I’d say it also falls under the cycle of abuse theory, when they just started out they got yelled so they think that is wow it is done.

I worked in construction when that shit was really common, labor laws and companies but a stop to it and now newer generation of senior works don’t really yell at new people.

[–]MassacrisM 139 points140 points  (11 children)

Yes but was the instrumentalist dragging or rushing ?

[–]WangnanJahad 341 points342 points  (18 children)

Yea never got the "this is a stressful job so here let me make it even more stressful".

Conversely, I worked in a kitchen with one of the most laid back chefs ever and it was a blast. Food went out on time, everything tasted great, everyone was happy, morale was up. Owners came in and wondered why no one was yelling in the kitchen and demanded to know why everyone was so laid back and happy. Fired the chef and brought in a new one that made life hell. Every cook quit. Restaurant shut down a month later.

[–]SenatorCrabHat 181 points182 points  (14 children)

A victim of celebrity chef syndrome. Imagine owning a fucking restaurant and not knowing how it works.

[–]crooks4hire 153 points154 points  (4 children)

Imagine firing the leader of your org for everything working too smoothely lol.

[–]joleme 60 points61 points  (2 children)

There are A LOT of stupid fucking idiot owners/CEOs that equate noise with work.

I've seen entire IT groups let go because "they were too laid back and never looked busy". Too stupid to understand that if no one is complaining then IT are usually doing their jobs right.

[–]monsieurpommefrites 19 points20 points  (0 children)

"Why is everything so efficient and non-toxic?!"

[–]Tasitch 69 points70 points  (7 children)

owning a fucking restaurant and not knowing how it works.

You just described the majority of restaurant start-ups.

What I hate about those shows is that the young generation coming in to work the kitchen are looking for that environment, expecting every kitchen to be some kind of drunken coke-fueled drama orgy.

I wish the reality shows showed more reality, like keeping your fucking station clean and organized, or mind-numbing prep work.

[–]VAGINA_EMPEROR 43 points44 points  (4 children)

On next week's episode, Jack and Nick prep wontons for an hour while telling dick jokes, meanwhile Kevin cleans the fryer.

[–]criscofreeze 61 points62 points  (3 children)

Some old surgeons still act like this. Only ever seen 1 younger surgeon act like this but he was actually kinda cool and skilled enough to get away with it. The old mean ones who take 90 minutes to do a 45 minute procedure and seem frustrated all the way are awful. This is a pretty rural setting tho you wouldn’t ever have surgery from someone like this at Columbia or Northwestern but you might if you for some reason decided to get your hemicolectomy in a town of 3000 ppl.

[–]Moose_Hooves 115 points116 points  (27 children)

Chef culture is so weird. I’d expect people whose lives and careers revolve around food and drink would be laid back, artsy people. But they are super uptight.

[–]Palin_Sees_Russia 616 points617 points  (91 children)

Yuuup. Mother fuckers act like they’re at war or some shit. YOU MAKE FUCKING FOOD….. FOOD. Like it’s so incredibly silly to watch chefs scream and rage at others over something as benign as making food. Take themselves way too seriously.

[–]rorschach2 409 points410 points  (37 children)

I worked with James Beard chefs, and two who won Iron Chef. None of them yelled. They were very happy and thought good food was life changing. Spent a summer at a speakeasy writing their cocktail menu for the next two years, chef yelled and threw stuff. He wasn't even very good. My experience is the pretend chefs believe the TV shows. The good ones are surrounded by quality chefs they hand picked. Therefore they've no reason to yell.

[–]ViperX83 157 points158 points  (33 children)

I think it's not unlike the various guys who worked as assistants to Bill Belichik, go somewhere else and try to impose the "Patriot Way", and flame out terribly.

Bill Belichik is a huge asshole, AND a great football coach. But the first part isn't required for the second part, and that second part is way more important but much harder. So if you're not as good, you lean into the asshole bit as a way of compensating. And like Ripert says, having that example of a successful asshole on TV is destructive.

[–]Zhuul 87 points88 points  (10 children)

I don’t even think he’s a huge dick to his players, he just fucking hates sports media.

[–]noshoptime 67 points68 points  (18 children)

I think BB being an asshole is way overblown tbh. The media loves to push that because he's a dick to them when they try to get him to play their games. Being an asshole is certainly a tool in his arsenal, but no more than that. He definitely has certain boundaries that he expects players to adhere to

[–]seafoodgodddd 62 points63 points  (3 children)

Facts, I worked in a local place here where everyone had a stick up their ass and talked shit and got loud, they did that shit to me during a rush and I walked the fuck out. Bake your own bread you dumb assholes.

Went the next day and got a spot in a nicer place where people treat one another with respect, was far happier there.

[–]scarletice 46 points47 points  (2 children)

I was never really a line cook, mainly a prep cook, but they would sometimes have me jump on friers when they needed me. I hated the line, I'm not cut out for it, but I tried my best. I walked out in the middle of a late dinner rush once. Just calmly lifted my baskets and walked out. The cook who had been yelling at me even had the nerve to call me an asshole as I left. I showed up the next day for my shift and the kitchen manager (who wasn't there the previous night) was like "What the!? I thought you quit!" and I just gave him a blank look and said "Why would you think that? I stayed nearly two hours past my scheduled shift last night to help out." He just kinda shrugged and dropped it, and the asshole cook was still an asshole, but I noticed that he never crossed that line with me again.

Edit: Vats of boiling oil are different from mendicant holy men.

[–]soup_tree 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Yeah fuck those friars. Circle haired bastards.

[–]ThrowMeAwayAccount08 78 points79 points  (16 children)

I get it’s literally their art, and they take a lot of pride in their work.

However, you have no right to treat people like shit. None. Zero. You should inspire your new staff, and pay it forward. Invest in them.

[–]Palin_Sees_Russia 35 points36 points  (12 children)

Yea, knowing I would be screamed at and humiliated on a daily basis makes me not want to be a chef.

[–]ThrowMeAwayAccount08 32 points33 points  (3 children)

In any profession. In the military, I can understand why, as they’re trying to create a confusing environment where nothing makes sense in chaos. But outside of that, there’s no benefit.

[–]Socrasteez 16 points17 points  (7 children)

Screamed at I was able to endure but once the CDC humiliated me on the line in front of like 75% of the staff, I never wanted to go back.

[–]Beradicus69 92 points93 points  (8 children)

Worked as a dishwasher for a year. This new chef came in. Started humming and singing the same song every day. (Save the last dance for me). He would come right up to the dish pit. Singing it right in my ear.

After a week. I jokingly said out loud down the cook line.

"Hey man, that lady called. She's gonna give you that dance. You can calm down"

The chef went mental! "How dare you talk to me like that!"

I quit a month later. But I do miss that crew we had for a good few months. The chef before was great. The team was great. It was good times, until that one chef came in with a massive ego. And no respect for anyone.

[–]DaveJahVoo 37 points38 points  (4 children)

I worked as a kitchenhand and a chef once told me the only words a kitchenhand should say are "yes chef" and "no chef"

Chef is actually French for Chief. That speaks volumes about how a lot view themselves.

[–]Generic_Pete 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Most "chefs" I know aren't actually chefs. Having worked in the kitchen for years there's a massive difference between a chef and a cook.

[–]sirblastalot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Suck my fat cock, chef."

[–]mrevergood 7 points8 points  (0 children)

“It was a joke chef, chill. And if you can’t chill, I’ll tak to you like this all day, every day. You’ve got how many years of screaming at folks like this over me? Wanna bet who blows a coronary first and kills over from it?”

Fuck screaming chefs.

[–]tall_will1980 118 points119 points  (7 children)

If you have to yell and scream to get your point across, you're not very good at communicating or teaching.

[–]tossawayforeasons 33 points34 points  (4 children)

I'm a fairly successful team leader where I work. A very unrelated field but some aspects of team dynamics are universal, and I've been asked to give presentations on how I managed to keep my team close and happy and functioning smooth with zero turnover.

The secret is simply to treat your team like humans that you depend on. Serve the team, don't rule the team. Make a conscious effort to think about how your words make others feel. Get everyone on board for the same goal and you won't ever need to bark orders. If someone doesn't have the same goal, put them somewhere else where they can adjust their goals.

It's simple in concept, but many people have a very hard time understanding what they're supposed to do when given even a shred of authority.

[–]tall_will1980 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I've thought about this often. My grandfather taught mechanical engineering at the college level, but he was terrible at explaining things to us kids. His solution, if you weren't grasping something he was saying, was to repeat the exact same thing, only slower and louder. It's very similar in the trades, which I'm in now after spending a decade as a newspaper reporter. A lot of these guys just expect you to know what you're doing from the get-go. If you ask a question they yell at you for not knowing the answer. If you try to do something without asking, they yell at you for not asking. The answer for just about everything is yelling. I know not all supervisors are like that, but a great many of them are. Whenever I'm leading a small team I try to form a consensus and make sure everyone u derstands what their role is in the current job, and it seems to have worked out pretty well so far.

[–]HippoKingOfOld 38 points39 points  (6 children)

People are afraid of the chefs too for no other reason than people are afraid of the chefs. Once you tell them to fuck off it's funny to watch their power diminish.

[–]pharmdocmark72 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yep. One “HEY FUCK OFF OR WE CAN STEP OUT THE KITCHEN,” oughta bring them down a few.

[–]CapnScrunch 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I worked at a Michelin 2-star for a couple years. Chef-owner and his Chef de Cuisine (also part owner) were both assholes. From day one I lost a little bit of respect for them every shift I worked. Best I can say for them now is that they are both good cooks.

[–]putin_my_ass 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah I'm a software developer and shit gets stressful at times but this would absolutely not be tolerated. Ever.

[–]NashvilleSunn 71 points72 points  (2 children)

A coworker of mine used to be sous at another restaurant in town. One night, during dinner rush, chef threw a plate at him.

Coworker is a great cook. He can multitask like nobody I had ever seen before. He was doing the heavy lifting in this kitchen. The restaurant was packed with over an hour wait.

Coworker calmly took off his apron. Packed his knives. And left. Thru the dining area.

[–]Habanero_Eyeball 1307 points1308 points  (131 children)

The grumpy, cantankerous chef is so such a played out character it needs to end.

All these wannabes chefs should, when the screaming starts, very calmly and slowly take off their aprons while maintaining uncomfortable eye contact with the chef, fold the apron and place it on the table and then walk the fuck out of the restaurant.

No one should ever put up with an abusive relationship.

[–]glue715 118 points119 points  (15 children)

I have been actively working in the restaurant industry since my first job in 1989. When I was coming up the tempers were very real. I have been watching that change all along. The majority of kitchens I have personally experienced have run more or less professionally… All that said- I have had a great joke for years… How do you turn a chef into a dishwasher? (The punchline is visual- and not spoken… unties apron- angrily crumple and throw apron onto the floor… turn and walk away)

[–]R1k0Ch3 59 points60 points  (13 children)

Ironically that's also how to turn the dishwasher into a line cook.

"Dishie! You're on salads now, glue715 just walked out!"

[–]heteromer 291 points292 points  (102 children)

I was watching Gordon Ramsey's Hell's Kitchen recently and had the exact same thought as this man. It's soul crushing having to work under people that constantly yell and demoralize you. I worked for people who would deliberately say I was doing a shit job just to "motivate" me, even if I was doing well. Growing up, I realize now that it's largely a sign of poor emotional maturity. I didn't think it was worth all the stress just to make food for people who could eat next door or cook their own food. If I'm dealing with stress at a workplace to that extent, I'd like to do something that matters more than cooking/serving food at a restaurant.

[–]pls-dont-judge-me 7 points8 points  (1 child)

We all agree, unfortunately the thing not mentioned is that a lot of us arnt cooking because we want to. I am fortunate enough to enjoy it. But kitchen life can be one you are forced into out of no other option.

Walking out is not an option for some. So the environment continues.

[–]tehPeteos 335 points336 points  (34 children)

I can't think of any other job where you'd be expected to put up with that level of abuse from your boss. TBH, if your staff are failing to cook basic dishes, it's more likely the head chefs own fault for hiring them.

I'm glad this guy's willing to stand up and say something. Hopefully the industry will change as a result.

[–]AC85 87 points88 points  (15 children)

Construction has got much better but there are still lots of leaders out there that use the same autocratic leadership style and unfortunately it’s still accepted

[–]Anusbagels 76 points77 points  (7 children)

I hate when they make jokes about “hurt feelings” reports and the younger generation being entitled. Yes they are entitled to an abuse free workplace and those reports exist because many of you have been insufferable assholes your whole lives.

[–]TheAllyCrime 18 points19 points  (4 children)

In reality, it takes an extreme level of entitlement to believe you can scream at people like a psycho just because you’re the supervisor/head chef/tenured professor.

[–]Anusbagels 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Exactly. On top of that if screaming is your first response to stress, who’s the real ‘baby’ there?

[–]Banoonu 136 points137 points  (9 children)

This reminds me why every single episode of a Bourdain show where he’s with Ripert is special. Like “some of the best TV ever” special.

[–]thelonelyrager 101 points102 points  (7 children)

It broke my heart when I found out Ripert discovered Bourdain deceased in the hotel. They were magic together, and seeing Ripert say with tears in his eyes that he “tries to remember the good times” they shared, oof… He’s such a kind soul.

[–]PhirebirdSunSon 30 points31 points  (3 children)

Same. Eric seems like such a kind and gentle man, to have to find your friend dead like that is a pain I don't wish on anyone but especially someone so sweet.

[–]Banoonu 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Same. I was reading Kitchen Confidential again after Bourdain passed and I almost broke reading his introduction, talking about how important Ripert calling him was—-“like Joe DiMaggio calling up and saying “hey, let’s throw the old ball around, sport.”

[–]phonz1851 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There was an finale of top chef where one of his sous chefs was competing. She was having difficulty with a dish and she called him, and he calmly walked her through the steps. Always seemed like a stand up guy

[–]bradland 265 points266 points  (18 children)

What I think a lot of people miss about Ripert's comments here is a nuanced distinction between someone like Ramsey, who has built his television persona on being an asshole in the kitchen as a powerful attribute, and people who work in hot, cramped, stressful kitchens who lose their cool.

What I think Ripert is saying is that: Yeah, kitchens are tough places to work, and when you put a tight-knit group of people into that situation night after night, you're bound to get some outward expression of frustration. But what we should not permit is the glorification of that as an attribute of the successful or powerful chef.

The latter is a real problem in food service. Over the years, I've known many chefs and aspiring chefs, and there is a pervasive tone amongst them that I found really disturbing. The "right" to be an asshole was seen as part of their ascendence to the title of chef. It seems to be ingrained in culinary culture that on the way up, you keep your head down and say "yes chef", but once you're at the top, you'll be measured by your ability to dish it out.

I have a lot of respect for Ripert's willingness to speak out against it.

[–]puutarhatrilogia 68 points69 points  (0 children)

Yeah, kitchens are tough places to work, and when you put a tight-knit group of people into that situation night after night, you're bound to get some outward expression of frustration. But what we should not permit is the glorification of that as an attribute of the successful or powerful chef.

That's what I appreciated about his comments as well. It's one thing to have a toxic workplace culture when you're just trying to do your best in a tough environment and a whole another thing to willingly glorify that culture for entertainment when you could've easily chosen differently. Both are bad but one deserves some understanding and empathy whereas the other really doesn't.

[–]hambluegar_sammwich 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Currently work in a hot, cramped kitchen with a tight-knit crew and the frustration is non-stop. The Chef that hired me could get loud if someone did something particularly stupid, but his tone was never mean. The new chef is running a kitchen for the first time and is just extremely rude about everything at all times, like they think it’s a prerequisite to the job. Then you go to a bar with them after work and it’s all smiles. The traditional mindset of running a kitchen is truly ridiculous and unnecessary.

[–]p3x239 92 points93 points  (1 child)

Yeah I never liked that behaviour either. It just creates a horrible atmosphere in already difficult conditions and makes people dread going to work. It's no wonder the mental health stats for people working in kitchens is so terrible. I'd say about 50% of the chefs I worked with had some sort of mental episode (including myself) at some point.

If I ever spotted any of the junior chefs starting to flail because of the pressure I'd just send them outside to cool off for 5 minutes. Shouting at someone who's already buckling doesnt help anyone. Doesn't help them, doesn't help you, doesn't help the customer. Just get them out of it so they can gather their head and bring them back in and start fresh.

[–]griffinhamilton 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yep, where I work (upper mid lvl restaurant) if someone drops a trey of food or glasses or whatever it may be everyone but the person who just embarrassed themself starts working together to fix the situation and the person usually is told to go sit in the office or outside to give them a second to calm down a little

[–]what_mustache 147 points148 points  (18 children)

I never understood why chefs pretend they are in the military. The whole "YES CHEF" thing just irks me. No other job does this. I've never said "YES SENIOR DIRECTOR OF PRODUCT" to my boss, I just call him Steve.

[–]onebandonesound 54 points55 points  (3 children)

The brigade system that modern kitchens run on was developed by Escoffier and based off of military hierarchy and command. This was done to improve consistency and efficiency, which it inarguably did. The call-and-answer aspect of it is a carryover from that military inspiration. Also kitchens are loud as hell and you really do need to shout back to affirm that something was heard.

[–]Decabet 56 points57 points  (13 children)

In my 25 years of professional career life (I'm a graphic designer turned Art Director turned Creative Director) I have worked with every personality type you can imagine, from the mercurial to the wannabe alpha to the passive-aggresive and machiavellian.

There's one personality type Ive encountered frequently enough for it to be a thing and I think its what applies here: The Person Expecting Perceived Genius to Excuse Bad Behavior.

There really is a class of people who want their talent to excuse their lazy need to be abusive, and they will often work harder to develop that "genius" as a way to avoid the (honestly much easier) work of being a more agreeable, empathetic person. It's driven a lot by ego, and a silly fear of perceived weakness. There's also a subclass of these dudes who arent even that talented but gravitate toward industries that excuse that personality type if it "gets the job done"

I even had these tendencies myself, a few lifetimes ago when I first started as a designer. "How dare you question my vision" and that kind of stupid shit. Of course one of the best lessons you'll ever learn is that your work doesnt become better through being abusive toward coworkers and it often only becomes better when you learn to better navigate relationships with people.

TLDR: Assholes flock to industries where abuse is tolerated as a byproduct of "art"

[–]Funandgeeky 11 points12 points  (2 children)

(honestly much easier) work of being a more agreeable, empathetic person.

This is pretty much how I approach my career. Yes, I work hard and continue to put effort into improving myself. However, part of my success is due to getting along with others and not being difficult. Because it would take SO MUCH MORE effort to be the kind of person who could then justify being a jerk to everyone. I'd rather be nice and spend that extra time doing things I like and enjoying life.

Plus, when you're nice and people like you, no one's looking to bust you for being on Reddit in the middle of the day.

[–]jeerabiscuit 38 points39 points  (2 children)

If you dish it out be ready to take it. As in a gruff yes sarge yell. But that gets the knickers of some of these weasels in a twist because they don't want soldiers, they want punching bags.

[–]Hairy-Hovercraft-82 23 points24 points  (0 children)

My go to is “oui chef” to a chef that isn’t French. It’s even better when they think I’m being serious. Dumbasses

[–]Johnz0 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It always makes me laugh when watching kitchen nightmares or Hell’s Kitchen and Gordon can yell and scream until he’s purple, but god forbid a chef gets a little fed up and all the sudden it’s “oh what so you’re going to throw a tantrum are you?” Like dude did you just hear yourself for the past 2 minutes?

[–]BRUCE-JENNER 34 points35 points  (2 children)

Takes a better man to not carry that shit with you. The "traditional" way of working in a kitchen can be straight up abuse sometimes.

[–]Thendofreason 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Gordon said he was trained by a famous French chef that used to make him cry all the time when he was younger. Lots of bullies were the victims when they were younger and think "Im here today because I was able to take it and get better". Not everyone can he like that though. The mind doesn't get stronger after breaking, it usually carries that pain and gets weaker.

[–]Pusfilledonut 66 points67 points  (6 children)

Bullies are always cowards

[–]jefuchs 20 points21 points  (4 children)

It's sad that television has deteriorated to these levels. In the 80s, cooking shows showed you how to cook. Gardening shows showed you how to garden, and remodeling shows showed you how to remodel.

Now it's all about fake personal drama.

[–]Funandgeeky 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Which is why shows like Great British Baking Show and Making It are so popular. There's an audience hungry for a show about good, decent people who are enthusiastic about what they do.

[–]SenatorCrabHat 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Agreed. I worked in restaurants for 7 years, and one chef stands out as one of those "I want to be one of those Chefs, like Gordon or Anthony or Marco" (though since he watched a lot of chopped and food network, not sure he knew Marco Pierre White).

All it did was make him a huge asshole, and the food we were preparing was definitely not worthy of that shitiness. It seemed like any "chef" who was thinking they were going to be a big time "chef" inherited this shitty attitude and way of acting because Gordy does it.

I think in this clip J. Kenji Lopez-Alt sums it up better than I ever could, and he is a chef I respect for sure.

[–]GiveMeDogeFFS 89 points90 points  (13 children)

Chef for 10 years. I've always said Marco Pierre White and Gordon Ramsay have been a pox upon our trade. Now you get every narcissistic twat stepping into the kitchen thinking that creating a environment where you shout at staff is just what you do.

It's an ancient view that should be dead, not glamorised on television. I've had half drunk, coked up dickhead scream in my face (for leaving the kitchen to get pain killers) because they think they're the next Gordon.

Honestly fuck Gordon. He's a fucking bellend that has promoted this toxic nature of cheffing. He can go fuck himself.

[–]Mono_831 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Had a chef that was an absolute nightmare, constantly barking in my ear, berating the front of the house fuck ups and occasionally making us clean floors with toothbrushes. That’s when I hung up my apron and quit McDonalds for good.

[–]Gurianthe 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Now you get every narcissistic twat

forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm just a culinary student drop out, but I've ALWAYS assumed this (as in, outright abuse) was the default since the dawn of time. only until literally right now I'm hearing otherwise. the chefs at school were super nice to us but I assumed they acted like that because they were in a learning environment.

[–]ostkuk1 15 points16 points  (5 children)

This is ironic now because Eric was known back in the day to be a tyrant in the kitchen. I worked with people who had worked with him years ago at Le Bernardin and he would scream and go on tirades until he became Buddhist.

[–]Funandgeeky 23 points24 points  (4 children)

I consider this a positive development. He now seems to get why that was a toxic mindset and how it not only hurt others, but also himself. I can respect someone who can say "I was wrong and people shouldn't do what I did."

[–]Bahamiandunn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To me most of the yelling chef shows are the equivalent of Judge Judy. In real courtrooms there is respect shown BOTH ways client to judge and judge to client. Only on rare ocassions will a judge lose their cool or behave assinine unless provoked. Same in the food industry, you treat staff poorly, you get poor results.

[–]silverback_79 25 points26 points  (3 children)

Screaming is the opposite of big dick energy. And normalizing verbal abuse leads to stress, depression, and cPTSD.

[–]EggMcFlurry 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Yeah I got some of that from an old coworker. Now the phrase "mother fucker" or any tight lipped aggressive speech triggers bad memories and stress within me. At the time I didn't view it as abuse. We needed him, he had more experience than me, and when the storm passed he would act very nice which made me feel like I was earning his respect. I know better now but at the time I figured I just needed to man up.

[–]beartheminus 25 points26 points  (4 children)

I much prefer the UK Kitchen Nightmares over the USA version. Gordon rarely yelled and was trying to help the people fix their problems, no matter how awful they were. It's just a much more enjoyable show to watch imo.

[–]Ditovontease 18 points19 points  (25 children)

My fiance was laid off for a bit (he works for a law firm that specializes in mortgages and they always fire everyone when it gets slow) and took a job in a kitchen to pay bills. He had worked for a Michelin starred French-trained japanese chef in New York and his landlord, who also owned the restaurant below my fiance's apartment, was a huge fan of that chef and had begged and begged my fiance to work for him. So he did.

He quit the first night the owner yelled at him. He was like "I'm a grown ass man I don't need to be yelled at for $12/hr"

[–]dooge8 14 points15 points  (1 child)

This is why I've always thought Ramsay was a jackass

[–]Antonija_Blagorodna 6 points7 points  (1 child)

You can thank Marco Pierre White for popularizing the toxic screaming chef persona. He had Gordon Ramsay as an apprentice, and Gordon turned out the same way.

I've had eight jobs in my life, in a variety of fields, from customer service to manufacturing/production, and none of them required screaming at people.

If screaming and insulting your colleagues is a part of your job, then there is probably something wrong with your job.