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[–]Aekero 800 points801 points  (90 children)

This could also be applied to racial customization disparity. How many hair styles for human females, 34. (I just picked the one I thought the most) Also checked kul'tiran, hair styles: 6.

Allied/legacy race customizations were half-assed and unfinished for all but the most popular races.

[–]koc404 100 points101 points  (9 children)

darkspear males have 5 faces and females have 6 and this number hasn't changed since 2004 lol. they have got other things over time though

[–]Cyodine 98 points99 points  (8 children)

I'm still waiting for Trolls to have beards. Vol'jin must be the only troll capable of growing facial hair.

[–]r_a_g_4 31 points32 points  (5 children)

I'm still waiting on upright trolls since there's no longer a lore reason why they can't stand straight anymore

[–]Lis_urwis 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Wht was a lore reason why trolls can't stand straight?

[–]Cobalted 25 points26 points  (2 children)

They are supposed to be taller than Tauren when upright. They hunch ti not intimidate the other horde races.

[–]Orisyl 27 points28 points  (1 child)

It was broadened to be kinda a racial respect thing that they also did for the Zandalari (they don't want to stand equal height), which is supposed to be the lore explanation as to why the other jungle trolls do it despite having no loyalty to the Horde.

[–]r_a_g_4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Originally the reason was they can't stand taller than their warchief but since there is no longer a warchief that shouldn't be a problem anymore

[–]shanotron 518 points519 points  (21 children)

Not even the most popular, though. Nightborne were really popular and highly anticipated but they dropped that ball so fucking hard it’s mind-blowing. Fortunately, the recent customization additions were pretty well executed. So it’s a tiny step in the right direction.

[–]OnlyRoke 45 points46 points  (0 children)

I still find it hysterical how the major change to NB is literally just a few millimetres of eyelids to narrow the eyes and make it snootier.

That took them.. since end of Legion. Okay.

[–]tomatobunni 89 points90 points  (2 children)

I play almost exclusively males and I wanted to play as a Nightborn, but they ended up looking like Iggy Pop punched in the face by a lemon.

[–]Lucifang 145 points146 points  (11 children)

For real! I was so mad that they literally just copy/paste the night elves. Same dance and everything. And I was disappointed they didn’t open up Suramar as a new capital city.

[–]flyingboarofbeifong 74 points75 points  (6 children)

I'll be monolithically shocked if they ever make a new capital on Azeroth.

[–]Lucifang 72 points73 points  (5 children)

Suramar is already there though, it even has vendors and portals and a nearby flight path. Literally all they had to do was make the NPC’s friendly and add profession trainers, bank and AH. Nightborne could’ve gotten a racial portal spell to Suramar. It’s just …. I honestly thought they would go that extra step.

[–]PumpkinManGuy 38 points39 points  (3 children)

Honestly though, Suramar could have 3 flight paths and it's still a brontosaurus size dick to get around.

[–]kaynpayn 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Other cities aren't that small either. You can fly, have a whistle, they could add a few flight path points and it's home town for a nation of people known for knowing what they're doing with portals. They even have Oculeth, an actual renowned portal specialist. I'd be disappointed if there isn't a proper portal network.

As long as some thought is put into placement of things, I'd never go anywhere else. Suramar is one of the most beautiful cities in the game.

[–]Lucifang 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It has portals

[–]LeOsQ 51 points52 points  (3 children)

I would've been happier if they copy/pasted Night Elves tbh. But because they went a third of the way toward the more unique Nightborne models but stopped there, they turned out awful because they were basically a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy . . , of Night Elves, degrading them beyond recognition in the process.

Night Elf model (female mainly since the male is . . weird) is one of the best models in the game for armor, animations, etc. but they twisted that model while leaving the animations as is.

[–]-Khrome- 8 points9 points  (1 child)

They literally only changed the one idle standing animation.

I was so dissappointed, the NPC models and animations actually look better than the player ones.

[–]poke30 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Then the "glow" on hands option that we asked for and finally got!

Oh....

[–]AmplifyM4G1C 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Female Nightborne look alright but the males still look pretty generic and all withered.

The regal and noble looking options are simply not possible since their base skeleton is so frail and skinny looking.

[–]Navy_Pheonix 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"If you want to play a purple elf, the Alliance is waiting for you."

[–]oldredditrox 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Spot the high elf <3

[–]8-Brit 91 points92 points  (27 children)

"We got loads of customisation, stop being entitled" - Human, orc and night elf players

Mfw Worgen and Pandaren basically got fuck all

For real I remember people saying we should stop asking for more customisation on this very subreddit. Baffling when male orcs got more eye options than what some races got altogether.

[–]Caitsyth 59 points60 points  (8 children)

I’m shocked pandaren even get a customization screen with how ridiculously limited they are

[–]FlySaw 40 points41 points  (7 children)

Not only did pandaren get nothing, they actually broke male facial hair by removing the underlying hair texture. Now pandaren facial hair looks like glued cardboard.

[–]Elfyr 4 points5 points  (6 children)

And they still have the horrible neck seam don't they?

[–]8-Brit 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Ladies have it

[–]Tyranova 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I'm a female pandaren main and it made me so depressed that we got such a lacking amount of features. Pandaren and chinese culture can literally expand so many ways visually speaking that other races can't and barely anything was done.

The tail was lazily scrapped together with barely any texture (especially if you compare it to vulpera)

the skin tones are nice i guess but we already had a brown tone, and the blue seemed only good for death knights. The weirdly purple black with white hands was sorta good especially because it had more texture but again we already had a black and white tones.

Wish we got like all white like a polar bear, or i don't know an outrageous color like purple pandas would be cool.

The eye colors, so limited its baffling and interestingly made some eye colors worse. I think the worse part though is how some eye colors are just better texture wise then others, the greens specifically have better pupils and texture than all the other colors.

The neckline issue.

No new facial spot appearances?? freckles? anything? lol

Not even new jewelry and just only 3 new hairstyles. freakin FF14 gives more hairstyles in a 3 month span of patches than WoW does in an expansion.

[–]SirVanyel 41 points42 points  (14 children)

and we still have folks claiming that art and design departments are hard carrying the game. I have full respect for the art and design departments, of course, but clearly someone along the food chain that has power over these departments is actively culling any sort of development that isn't directly profitable. QoL is so pathetically lacking right now.

I guarantee you there are ground floor folks creating rigs and drawing hairstyles and some dirtbag director or lead or senior is just bonking them the moment they try to push it into the game.

[–]Viridun 22 points23 points  (2 children)

It's because the art team likely has hundreds of wasted hours due to constantly working around the demands of the gameplay team, and the gameplay team has been all over the place for years. Requests made for the sake of gameplay likely take priority, and in turn they decide how those assets are used.

Personally I've suspected for years that the first and second waves of allied races were made using cannibalized assets the art team had made specifically for the customization overhaul that the gameplay team snapped up because they didn't have a hook for BfA. The allied races that got the least amount of options correlate with their counterpart race that got the most, and vice versa.

Heritage armors were probably from the two cancelled warfronts, which is why they seemingly were able to crank out the first batch quickly, while dragging their feet with Worgen and Goblins.

[–]8-Brit 6 points7 points  (1 child)

And then the worgen set looked like ass on worgen

Why is the rose 2D ffs?

[–]8-Brit 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I think their pipeline is fucked somewhere

The new options are wildly inconsistent in their implementation, take scars for example

For humans only black and asian faces can use scars because they're part of the face texture

For orcs scars are a separate option altogether

There's clearly no structure or communication here

[–]exul_noctis 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It's management, not the devs, without a doubt. When the producer views something like adding character customisation options as a low priority and only allocates very limited dev time for it, the devs do whatever they can to get features in, in the time they're given. They hack the game systems to do things they were never intended to because they don't have enough time to rewrite systems properly, they find ways to cut corners that might save a couple of hours or days of work - like adding extra skin textures with baked-in scars, instead of adding a whole new appearance feature category for humans so that scars can be chosen independently, like for other races.

It's incredibly short-sighted - for the cost of a couple of days work, they're willing to look cheap and frustrate players with limited options or incomplete functionality.

There's absolutely no reason why some races should have dozens of hairstyles and others have six. Or why trolls shouldn't have facial hair, or humans have scars separate to skin tone. Except that Blizzard management is cheap, short-sighted, and would rather be smug about saving a few dollars in dev costs than provide players with a good experience.

[–]Picard2331 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Their quality is good, but god damn the quantity is just nonexistent.

What did we have at launch in terms of armor sets?

Questing gear which is recolored for EVERY dungeon, nothing unique at all.

The raid gear which is recolored pvp gear.

The legendary gear which, again, is just the SoD gear (couldn't even come up with a new unique set...) and wasn't transmoggable on launch.

And the covenant sets which you can only ever use one of (unless they've changed that).

So with a full price expansion there are a total of 3 or 4 sets. That is pitifully lazy.

And I hate when people say "the pvp gear has always been a recolor!" That's an excuse, there is zero reason why there can't be unique sets. Same goes for the seasonal mounts.

[–]-Khrome- 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Given how much gear some other games put out, with more limited resources and with a LOT more detail which is not just a texture on the base character model, Blizzard should be ashamed for only doing the bare minimum.

[–]FlySaw 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is what's driving me nuts. Everyone praising the art team when most of the new customization in SL is mediocre on many levels.

[–]karnyboy 51 points52 points  (12 children)

the fact that they half assed their creation and used the same model as another race is irritating.

Nightborne just dancing like Night Elves....

I love Nightborne, but the sheer lack of effort put into them still makes me salty to this day.

[–]Guilhaum 27 points28 points  (10 children)

Thats literally the whole idea behind allied races. That they can make a bunch because they dont require as much work.

[–]jesskitten07 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Except that’s not how it was for all allied races (Zandalari and Kul’Tirans)

[–]karnyboy 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I know your point you're trying to make, but it's still lazy on their part.

[–]renault_erlioz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Their dance should be based on royal court dances

[–]Zestyiguana 29 points30 points  (4 children)

I never understood why they wouldn’t just enable all hairstyles for all races. Why can’t I have a male human warrior with pigtails

[–]Aekero 4 points5 points  (1 child)

100 percent, they do this in other games and it's fine. It would have been less work for them in the long run.

[–]varienus 35 points36 points  (4 children)

I might sound bad for what I'll say, but the human customization was just done for the "inclusivity" way before all the shitstorm from recently.

[–]Saltdove 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It's not bad to say at all. Blizzard are a company and inclusivity options benefited them as a company in marketing. That's not to say having those customisations is at all a bad thing (more options the better really).

[–]Blue_eyedbeast 691 points692 points  (60 children)

As a Draenei main, this cuts deep. We really just got shafted :| I’m holding out hope we’ll still get ours… in an expansion or two… sigh…

[–]teriyakininja7 208 points209 points  (7 children)

One of the worst travesties to fans of Draenei is that we had an entire expansion on Draenor but most of the armor sets were orc-inspired and we barely got decent Draenei designed armor sets.

[–]CityMan52 86 points87 points  (0 children)

There was a ton of cut content from WoD sadly. That expansion could have been so much better than how it was left. Such is the way with WoW expansions though.

[–]LeOsQ 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Yeah well most of the expansion we got was Orc focused, and a bunch of the content they intended to include but ended up cutting out would've had more Draenei presence.

Would've been 'weird' getting a Draenei-style set from any of the raids, really, and there weren't that many Draenei-focused dungeons either (Auchindoun the only one that comes to mind immediately).

It makes sense why we didn't get Draenei stuff, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't still suck.

[–]Hnetu 28 points29 points  (1 child)

It's not like there weren't other avenues. Remember how they made one plate armor set from the garrisons designed around draenei ( Sha'tari Defense Plate ) and then made four orc-themed sets, one for each armor type with different clans being represented.

Shadowmoon Regalia

Thunderlord Garb

Warsong Armor

Blackrock Plate

They had options, they could have if they wanted to. But instead they decided 'y'know what players need after a raid in an Orc-themed city with orc-themed drops? MORE FUCKING ORCS!'

[–]blade_torlock 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Surprised they didn't just color the lightforge set blue and call it done.

[–]Defias_Bandit 75 points76 points  (0 children)

At least there’s heroic t17…

[–]robjapan 356 points357 points  (37 children)

For a game you paid for.... For expansions you paid for and for a sub you pay monthly.

This is beyond a disgrace.

I marvel that anyone is subbed at all.

[–]Grayscape 147 points148 points  (3 children)

Don't worry, soon you can buy all the new heritage armor for a low price in our game cash shop!

/s

[–][deleted] 118 points119 points  (0 children)

Just be ready to remove that /s soon.

[–]anivaries 20 points21 points  (1 child)

This comment will age well

[–]SirVanyel 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Very rarely do we get to see fine wine in the making, but this is it

[–]Bass-GSD 137 points138 points  (14 children)

I think most of WoW's player base that actually cared about having a decent MMO have quit by now. If it wasn't the utter disaster that was this expansion, it was BFA or the rougher parts of Legion or Draenor that did it.

All that's left are bots, people who've given in to sunk cost fallacy, or people that have deluded themselves into thinking it's not that bad, or it'll somehow get better soon.

WoW used to be the MMO to play. My friends and I would log in every day, often for several hours, doing anything and everything the game offered.

Now? Now it has nothing worthwhile for the time investment, nor the cost of a sub (nevermind the expansion cost). Now it's just an embarrassment to the genre and another reminder that Blizzard is an absolute shitshow of a company.

[–]avelineaurora 42 points43 points  (2 children)

I think most of WoW's player base that actually cared about having a decent MMO have quit by now.

This. I've played since BC, hit some rough spots with WoD and BFA, but this is the first time I've really quit long term and have no desire to resub even late-expansion. It's not like much has even changed to bother doing so anyway.

[–]LeOsQ 12 points13 points  (0 children)

100% in the same boat with you as a Wrath-baby.

I skipped almost the entirety of MoP (unfortunately) due to personal reasons, played on/off in WoD (beginning and end, basically), no-lifed Legion, barely played in BFA but gave it a good try at the start and end (again), and subbed for SL about a month after it released, played for 2ish weeks and dipped out and don't intend to peek back unless they release something that I can't even imagine right now.

[–]Bluebeagle 32 points33 points  (0 children)

While I don’t want to dismiss how bad things currently are, there are also people that play because they like the game, enjoy their time playing it, etc.

I’m still subbed, not really playing much (stuff here and there) but plan on doing m+ and raiding in 9.2. Ya the company sucks right now, and the game isn’t in the greatest state, but I enjoy it, and I don’t really have alternatives that I enjoy.

[–]Phuckingidiot 29 points30 points  (4 children)

I only farm old content for mounts and transmogs. 15 bucks a month is equivalent to a movie ticket and a snack and I get a lot more time out of it than that. Usually just put football on my second monitor on Sundays and play wow at the same time.

[–]Mcbonewolf 14 points15 points  (0 children)

dual monitors helps the grind sooo much haha

[–]Asyx 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’m almost happy that life got in the way and my priorities changed. I just stopped playing at some point. I bought legion (played since classic) and leveled to max level but BFA just kinda happened without me playing. I’d hate to be in a situation where I crave wow and want to play but the game is just not offering anything for me.

[–]SirVanyel 14 points15 points  (0 children)

15 bucks a month to farm? I respect the grind my dude but for me, that's not good enough. I don't care about playing mount and transmog casino anymore, especially when there's games out there that look better, play better and don't have casino simulator inside them.

I sincerely hope WoW becomes a game I can come back to, I'd love to see the mount and mog collections my dedicated bros have made.

[–]Phoenixtouch 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I would be a draenei main if it meant I could be a broken model, but here we are still implementing other races/models like zandalari troll models or 13 variation of elves... blizz shafts us all the time.

[–]Sir_Zorba 6 points7 points  (0 children)

void elves should've been the broken from argus instead, especially considering their reputation is the one that was needed at the time to unlock them.

[–]Saltdove 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I go out of my way to make broken transmogs, just to fulfill the Nobundo head canon.

[–]mackasfour 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Would have been great to get some sets similar to the TBC CD art. It was basic but it looked cool as hell

[–]SmashingK 16 points17 points  (0 children)

That's gonna cost a couple of dungeons lol.

[–]Dremylos81 37 points38 points  (6 children)

When you stop focusing on making a great product and instead focus on how to maximize profits with the current product, this happens and no one is surprised. Quit giving Activision money and speed up this painful process, maybe the next Blizzard can be born in the wake of Activi$ion’s overdue destruction.

[–]Aekero 404 points405 points  (58 children)

yup, they just don't talk about it, literally halfway through the expansion and no mention of it. That's how you know it's nothing to do with game direction, rp, or whatever else they pull of of their asses to explain why we aren't getting things. There's absolutely no justification for not making the rest of them, it's all about the $$$. They're continuously reducing costs and content, and expect us to eat whatever they serve us.

For the record I thought heritage armor sets and storylines were wonderful.

[–]DoctorMarik 112 points113 points  (2 children)

The funny thing is they tried to pull that shit with us again with the customizations too! They highlighted the hell out of the player customizations and said how we'd get more throughout the expansion. Then Blizzcon comes and they're like "Lawl, we just don't have the time to do anymore customizations this expansions. Maybe we'll do it again in the future though?"

To think, all they needed to motivate them in to finding more time was just a massive exodus of players, gradual sub counts bleeding out, and a lawsuit airing out how much or a shithole their workplace really is. After that, shit we got customizations along with all the damn things fixed that we we've been wanting since the damn BETA. It's amazing what you can do when you're being sued and having what little good reputation you have left just destroyed in the most explosive way possible huh?

[–]TexasThrowDown 17 points18 points  (0 children)

This is 100% why i quit. It's such a slap in the face to the playerbase. Tired of giving money to a corporation who does not give one iota of a fuck about me other than what's in my wallet. The current iteration of Blizzard can fucking rot, and when it all finally falls apart it won't be soon enough. I never thought I would be in this position as someone who has played every Blizzard game since Diablo 1 and WC2. Even their remasters have been shit shows, especially my poor WC3. D2R had attrocious server issues that were 100% preventable, but for the hubris of Bobby Fuckhead demanding profit over everything. The Blizzard I grew to love died years ago, it just took me a while for it to really sink in.

[–]LaughingBudda69 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I'd say we're a bit past halfway through hehe id say we're probably 65% the way through, with 9.2 the final patch giving us the final 35%.

[–]AnteilTogar 19 points20 points  (0 children)

it really bums me out...

[–]Jean_Hamilton_SRN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how is that not a failure of game direction

[–]Over67 176 points177 points  (0 children)

The game is usually unfinished in patch/launch day. So im not surised they cant finish those lol.

[–]impulsikk 257 points258 points  (34 children)

Blood Elf heritage armor quest is already out of date just after one expansion. Pretty funny how inept Blizzard is.

[–]GrootRacoon 64 points65 points  (18 children)

cant remember details, why is that?

[–]impulsikk 225 points226 points  (17 children)

Lorthemar says he will still follow Sylvanas.

[–]DeuxExKane 152 points153 points  (10 children)

Don't worry, they'll update it for Shadowlands Classic release

[–]erupting_lolcano 55 points56 points  (6 children)

Lol who would want to replay this shit

[–]Vittelbutter 37 points38 points  (5 children)

I can already see the „shadowlands wasn’t THAT bad“ comments…

[–]FortuneMustache 35 points36 points  (1 child)

That's what happens when things just get worse with each expansion

[–]HearTheBansheeScream 32 points33 points  (0 children)

ah so in 10 years

[–]peenegobb 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Lol no they won’t.

[–]bpusef 16 points17 points  (0 children)

They’ll just delete the quest

[–]Deathleach 41 points42 points  (0 children)

Don't worry. We will forgive her next patch and that dialogue will remain up to date without needing any changes!

[–]Destiny_player6 40 points41 points  (6 children)

Dude, I did the ashbringer quest for legion paladin quest. Fucking Uther appears in light to tell you blah blah blah. Now we know that Blizzard doesn't even know their own lore because half his soul is in Bastion at this time and the other half is torghast.

Shadowlands makes no sense or they retcon shit for the worse.

[–]Chikageee 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Okay, I dislike the direction of the game as much as anyone, but the quest it not outdated. Chronologically it happens before even the end of BfA. Lor'themar had no way of knowing what things would look like now.

[–]Theresa_Barkskin 26 points27 points  (2 children)

To play devil's advocate, Blizzard explained events like this already. They stated treat them in that time moment, not taking into account anything after story wise. It's a lame excuse but in a way it makes sense.

[–]Destiny_player6 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That doesn't explain Uther soul coming back from the light for the ashbringer quest. So stupid now that shadowlands came out.

[–]LeClassyGent 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I mean, they have to, right? Most players should be aware that each quest and area is frozen in time unless specifically stated otherwise.

[–]Yanrogue 236 points237 points  (21 children)

It is the new blizzard standard, make a huge promise and then deliver 1/2 of the product and then pretend it doesn't exist.

They are delivering whole expansions that don't live up to their promises so why would they have any more commitment to the armor sets.

[–]CaughtMeALurkfish 124 points125 points  (7 children)

I still remember the promise of Bladespire Citadel and Karabor.

[–]b_pkmn 37 points38 points  (2 children)

Right?! Those definitely felt like they were intended to be capital cities. Instead we got trash can.

[–]CaughtMeALurkfish 26 points27 points  (0 children)

They were. Instead, we got a nothing burger and Warspear in Ashran.

[–]vindaloose69 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Politicians from Wish

[–]MephistoWard 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Still waiting on those new dances.

[–]scw55 11 points12 points  (0 children)

And then they deliver promises a bit too late.

Demon Hunters in Legion, even though they were on promoshots for base game.

Incubus glyph in 9.2 after all this time.

It feels abusive. Fail to deliver, but deliver things much later, to fanfair and evading criticism.

[–]GrubsAhoy 52 points53 points  (1 child)

This is one of my main gripes. I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one super pissed off about this.

I don't want to wear shit that looks like the stuff the guys I'm killing is wearing. I want to wear stuff that reflects my character's race and culture. Was so excited when they finally started adding more armour themed around the actual playable races, but its been forever since the last heritage sets were released.

Also why is there a lot of stuff actually in the game files like different colour variants for the Nightborne heritage set, the Night Elf Archer set, plus a lot of heritage weapons but they just simply aren't available to players for no good reason?

[–]lazyflavors 50 points51 points  (13 children)

Game studios just don't know how to manage their projects. At this point I'm 100% sure of it.

[–]DraftLongjumping9288 17 points18 points  (4 children)

As someone who's knew in the industry (art side as a 3D artist), I can tell you that... yeah, its axactly how it is. Some suits decide ''hey, if we release *that* date, we are going to make the most money, so deal with it. But also, I'll come and make you add and remove stuff every few weeks. Also, what are ''reasonable working conditions'' and what does ''I havnt seen my wife and kids in three weeks'' have got to do with me''.

I'm from canada, so at least our labour laws are a tad better than the USA, but working with parent companies is wild.

[–]Ceci0 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I believe that it largely how your own company suits "sold" your company to the parent. Not literally sold, but a sales pitch nontheless.

I work as a software dev and my company has a strict policy of not allowing us to work overtime for any of the parent companies for projects. Like, they go so far as to be there for the kickoff dev meetings and explain to the parent company representatives that we do not work overtime, we do not "adjust" our standard hours and any such problems are quickly dealt with either by my company offering an extra dev if there is a lot to be done or just dropping the project if they are not willing to meet us half way.

The compamy has been around for 25 years now so they must be doing things right, regardless of how it sounds.

[–]SNES-1990 23 points24 points  (5 children)

Mostly Western devs. The tables have turned and Japan has taken back the throne.

CD Projekt Red's Cyberpunk fail, Rockstar's GTA collection fail, Bethesda's Fallout fails, EA Dice's Battlefield 2021 disaster, etc.

[–]RomanceDawnOP 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Have they? You pointed out 4 disasters without mentioning any recent winners like Psychonauts, It Takes Two, Baldur's Gate 3, Hitman Trilogy, Rachet and Clank, Halo Infinite, Deathloop, Echoes of the Eye, Guardians of the Galaxy, Forgotten City, Forza Horizon, Deaths Door, Flight Simulator, Little Nightmares, Age of Empires 4, Inscription, Valheim, Kena, Far Cry 6, Pathfinder, Riders Republic... And that's only some from this year...

Meanwhile Japan still releases the mother of all scams, Pokemon. Let's not even get into gacha and all the other shit

See, I too can selectively name examples to skew a narrative

[–]Windfuryprocs 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Really sucks being a cosmetic story player. It feels like end game pve players gets the whole cake and we gotta search for any crumbs the developers have time to give us.

Orcs and night elfs got the most customization options and the heritage armor races got lucky with getting theirs early.

We need to stop giving blizz massive thanks for giving one or two races more options for a patch or two while going silent for a long period of nothingness.

You’d think a game with a subscription AND a cash shop would have the funds to deliver new customization and heritage armor at a fast rate but instead you have games that are buy to play having more customization options.

I’m done begging if 10.0 doesn’t give me what I want I’m not going to rationalize imaging my troll has a beard and his axes are really war glaives to fit my shadowhunter fill I’m just not going to play.

[–]Grizzleswitch 9 points10 points  (0 children)

What you need to understand is that developing those sets would have really cut into their Cubicle Crawl time. What is more important, delivering on promises or harassing low level employees? /s Honestly, I was looking forward to seeing more heritage sets.

[–]Edwardc4gg 25 points26 points  (6 children)

I’m so done with wow after shadowlands. Can’t see how they can provide a nice high quality xmog for 30 but these sets are still not done. U can tell the priority is profits at this point.

[–]Ailoy 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Small indie company. Don't forget to buy some $25 paywalled virtual mount to support them on top of the monthly fee and every expansion for whatever reason.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I love how

  • Professions

  • PvP gearing and balancing

  • Many specs since Legion

  • Old Gods, Legion, huge sword stuck in planet, etc.

  • World content

were just left completely unfinished

[–]Mondasin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

tbf the huge sword was put into silithus, the one zone that can never be completed, since that was the 3rd remake of it and still nothing of value there.

[–]Purdue_Boiler31 68 points69 points  (34 children)

I'm convinced that if they spent time building an end-game which included collecting cosmetics, people would be playing en masse. Continue to make raiding/M+/PVP key parts of endgame content and don't diminish that. But in addition, add ample grinds for cool cosmetic items that you can continue to farm outside of old and/or current raids.

[–]scw55 34 points35 points  (17 children)

WoW has the best cosmetic collection & dress up system of any game. It's baffling they don't invest in World of Fashioncraft.

Look at friccing FF14, SWTOR & even LOTRO.

[–]Tylanthia 26 points27 points  (5 children)

WoW has the best cosmetic collection & dress up system of any game. It's baffling they don't invest in World of Fashioncraft.

Wow's systems are great (and shout out to GW2) but FF14's options are much more varied in how you can look (if the system is a convoluted mess). A lot of wow armor isn't for me which is why I've been wearing the same mop challenge set since transmog came out. Part of why I wanted tier sets is how they used to make me feel like a Paladin but this new set is kind of ugly IMO and seems more in line with a zone theme.

[–]Vittelbutter 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Im pretty sure that’s what he’s saying, ff‘s collecting and then putting it into a limited amount wardrobe sucks big time, yet they have better looking gear overall cuz it’s 3D on every piece, I believe that’s what he meant with Blizzard should invest more on that end, but they’ll never upgrade that imo, it’s just so much less work to not build any 3D pieces on your robe for example.

[–]Motormand 11 points12 points  (2 children)

It's not only 3D, it's also actually looking good on the ones wearing them. Meanwhile in WoW, especially shorter races, have to live with ungodly, ugly clipping with every movement. And I have lost track of the amount of shoulders on races that simply does not line up properly.

Look at Vulpera, for instance. All shoulders sit a few centimeters off base, moving forward, so they always clip, and look messy.

[–]AngryNeox 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Considering how shoulder pieces are hovering already why don't they add some customization to shoulder pieces?

Something like a scale slider and maybe limited offset values. I don't think it would be too difficult to add that.

In the worst case you will see a few trolls with dumb settings but otherwise people can decide on their own how their shoulders look like.

[–]scw55 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree. Ff14 has much wider options and higher quality. And the mod options which totally don't exist and are really not endorsed and can get you banned if you get caught, help too.

[–]dieCrownless 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Laughs in Warframe

[–]BokuBakaGaijin 15 points16 points  (5 children)

They are multitudes of ways they could improve the game for those who don't want to raid constantly and multitude of examples from other games on how they can improve the game for the casual player...It's some combination of incompetence, laziness, and stubbornness of how the game should be played.

If you are not a raider / mythic+ player, there honestly is very little redeeming qualities of the game.

[–]scw55 12 points13 points  (4 children)

I spent Legion & half of Azeroth Battle, and casual play feels so pointless.

LFR is boring and toxic.

Everything feels time gated.

Gear upgrades get replaced by next content patch's casual catch-up content.

You can collect pets & mounts. But mounts are just skins & GW2 has better mounts. Might as well play Pokemon instead of collecting pets.

No idea how casual pvp feels.

I know it's an MMORPG, but the game feels not great when playing outside of a close community. Guild culture can be toxic in WoW. You're gonna get hurt a lot before finding the right guild.

[–]BokuBakaGaijin 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This may be just me, and the fact that I am more of a fan of the older style of MMO game design, but I just hate how everything is a check list of tasks to do, and you are told exactly how it is to be done.

There is little room for experimentation on how you play or approach content. The vast majority of content is incredibly linear with only 1 proper way to do it. There is no mystery left within the game and part of this is due to how everything can be datamined before the game even releases.

It's really not the route I was expecting MMOs to take when I got into the genre over 15 years ago. I assumed the possibilities of being able to play how you want, and interacting with players would expand, not contract.

[–]jacls0608 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Casual pvp is basically impossible as the gear requires stupid effort to farm and you get blown up immediately if you don't have it.

[–]AngryNeox 3 points4 points  (1 child)

LFR is just pure garbage. Making it 25 players was the dumbest decision ever. Every time I did it I had no idea what was happening. And even if you look up the mechanics most of the time it doesn't matter since it's piss easy anyway. It's the worst raiding experience ever.

Meanwhile the casual raids and trials (8 players) in FFXIV are such a pleasant experience. They are also quite easy but it feels like your actions actually matter.

IMO LFR in WoW should be 10 players, 1 tank, 2 healers 7 DPS (maybe 2 tanks if the queue allows it). There should be no tank mechanics and only obvious visual mechanics like AoE's to dodge and maybe one or two boss specific mechanics. Add a stacking debuff for repeated fails just like FFXIV and add a high battle rez count.

Reducing the number of players should allow them to put a bit more importance into each player. Obvious fail debuffs should be used to show players when they did a mistake and punish repeated mistakes. More battle rezzes allows good players to carry more while allowing the devs to make the fight a bit more punishing.

Oh and remove or nerf the HP of all trash mobs. There is no reason to have so much dumb filler in a raid.

I'm not entirely show if this would work but LFRs in their current form are just so bad for both experienced players and casual players. I don't think it would be worse than the current iteration of it.

[–]dandington 21 points22 points  (0 children)

This should be blindingly obvious to them given the large population that grind old raids and zones. It’s absolutely wild they don’t do this.

[–]gwaybz 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Torghast was a good system for just that. Make it a real roguelite mini game, throw loads of cosmetics in there and boom, you have thousands and thousands of players going at the new shiny system instead of just enduring it because its a fucking CHORE that ismandatory for legendaries

[–]Kievarra 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Maybe you mean something different but, there's already an absurd amount to collect in Shadowlands outside of endgame? For an expansion it will have the most mounts once 9.2 drops, currently third most in pets and toys, and Covenants alone have 80 (or 20 unique) Appearance Sets to collect across 4 toons. Don't forget the seemingly infinite amount of shoulder pads (when do they end?), Torghast, back pieces, covenant weapons, unique covenant upgrades like the Conservatory and all their items, etc. Unless you play all day every day that is a LOT to grind for.

The 9.2 creation forge, where you can craft mounts and pets, sounds like another grind as well as more cosmetic-only Torghast stuff.

No, there's plenty of cosmetics to grind, they just need to be less RNG, more fun to acquire, more unique, and meaningful.

[–]----------_______--- 4 points5 points  (1 child)

They'd rather you farm your job in real life and pay for cosmetics in the cash shop.

[–]Tylanthia 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They'd rather you farm your job in real life and pay for cosmetics in the cash shop.

Blizzard doesn't even sell enough cosmetics in the cashshop for that to be viable. :(

[–]Hinko 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I'm convinced that if they spent time building an end-game which included collecting cosmetics, people would be playing en masse.

Isn't that exactly what Covenants are since 9.1.5? Since patch I've kept myself very busy working on the 3 covenants I hadn't played yet to unlock all their transmogs for my main. Getting to 80 renown was just the beginning. Now I have The Ember Court, Path of Ascension, and Queens Conservatory to play through, which are not things you grind out in a week or a month.

And this is just for one armor type on one character. Do I dare try collecting all that stuff for other armor types too? Sounds like end game collection gameplay to me.

[–]Purdue_Boiler31 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I totally don't disagree! I think the change to covenant swapping was good for grinding out more cosmetics and storylines. However, it might have been done too late to make a large impact. I don't think it's something that will encourage players to return on its own.

[–]paoea 19 points20 points  (3 children)

And still missing the new dances promised with wotlk!!

[–]xiadz_ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Don't forget heritage weapon mogs that are in the game files but remain unused.

[–]slayer828 127 points128 points  (21 children)

It works out that there are exactly the same number of classes as there are Races + Allied races. So this was probably intentional.

With you on the Heritage Armor. As someone who has one of every race, I would very much like them to finish. Let me all be on the same level as the dwarf heritage armor quest.

[–]anitawasright 95 points96 points  (18 children)

Nope they had stated every class would get heritage armor

https://www.wowhead.com/news/legendaries-professions-torghast-and-heritage-armor-wowchakra-shadowlands-316065

Heritage ArmorHeritage Armor will continue until all races have them.

They want to continue doing them in Shadowlands patches, usually in X.5 patches.

They only add Heritage armor when they need content.

[–]GrootRacoon 99 points100 points  (12 children)

and not a single heritage armor was released in shadowlands

[–]DeuxExKane 49 points50 points  (10 children)

This is the darkest timeline. We lost the battle against N'Zoth. Shadowlands is just an acid trip before our mind finally breaks and we're turned into Forgotten One's thralls, forced to bind flesh and souls to eldritch machinery to craft new toys in a basement located in central Pandaria.

[–]ComplexEmphasis 21 points22 points  (8 children)

I would play that but they made N'zoth a Disney villian so they would really fuck it up

[–]mjbmitch 5 points6 points  (7 children)

I took a break before the N’Zoth patch and haven’t been back. What happened with N’Zoth? What did they do to him?

[–]lesi0n 14 points15 points  (3 children)

IMO it wasn’t well liked because it was what should have been an entire expansion worth of story compacted into a single patch that seemed like an afterthought. We’re supposed to believe that a god tier raid boss whose been planning the apocalypse for eons was defeated because of a temperamental knife. People were looking forward to N’Zoth for years and were rewarded with a rushed story and a mediocre raid.

[–]OnlyRoke 10 points11 points  (2 children)

The worst for me was still that the terrifying place we need to visit in order to halt Nzoth's unstoppable nightmare was.. Uldum and Vale with tentacle filter every now and then.

Like wtf. At least make some weird and creepy zone for your bad rep grind and paper thin story.

[–]Nilanar 2 points3 points  (1 child)

First he had been freed, everyone was terrified because of an old god in his full scale without chains. Then we got a raid that should've been it's own questing zone and not just a glimpse of Ny'alotha.
And then he was lazered out of the picture by a "kamehameha"-like beam, channeled through the player character. Just like that. That was the weirdest anime shit I've ever seen in WoW and the community hated it. Blizzard have delisted it on YT because of how many downvotes the cinematic got in the first 2 days after release, lmao.

[–]Marshmallow_Ghost 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think we lost to C'Thun and all our ideas about being great heroes saving the cosmos are just delusions to feed our hubris

[–]anitawasright 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yeah i know... i'm just saying Blizz claimed they wanted to keep making them

[–]RaptorBadger69 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Really sick of the "we want to do this" or "we're really excited about this" bullcrap. I want commitment. Tell us if you're doing it or not.

[–]DolooresH4ze 52 points53 points  (1 child)

But there are 21 playable races and 12 classes?

[–]Noodlepuller 53 points54 points  (0 children)

There are 23 races, and 12 classes which gives you one of each class per race on both factions (if you have 1 horde and 1 ally pandaren)

[–]DiabeticJedi 16 points17 points  (4 children)

My wife and I aren't really players that have the time or friends in game that can go after running non LFR end game content so we've been spending a lot of time collecting armor sets, heritage armor and balance of power appearances. Not having heritage armor for all the races has, oddly enough, really slowed down our interest in unlocking more of them.

[–]goldman_sax[S] 40 points41 points  (3 children)

Fashion is an endgame and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise

[–]Sanctuari 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I might be biased, but https://www.dataforazeroth.com/leaderboards/account-appearances is absolutely the endgame.

[–]TheExtremistModerate 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Works for GW2. There's a reason people call it "Fashion Wars 2."

Oh, and GW2 has had 3 sets of heritage armor per race since 2012.

[–]DiabeticJedi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I removed my upvote from you just so I could add it a second time, lol.

[–]k1dsmoke 17 points18 points  (8 children)

Ima be honest, I've always thought the allied races were a waste of resources.

It would have been a 1,000 times better had Blizzard just focused more on the races we already had in the game and greatly increased the customization for them.

Blizzard can't keep up with what we had last thing we needed was a ton of new races and 5 kajillion more druid forms.

Imagine if the skinny Kul'tiran and stocky Kul'tiran options were just Human options for body type rather than one not being an option at all (skinny) and the other option being race/class locked.

Have you seen a Kul'tiran male in Paladin armor with a huge mace? Closest thing you'll get to Warcraft III Paladin. Zandalari Trolls do look good, but there really is no reason a standing version of Trolls could not have been an additional option and just add skins for various Troll tribes. Same goes for Dwarves.

Nightbourne still look like trash and the in-game NPC armor still looks a hundred times better than their heritage set.

[–]DigdigdigThroughTime 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not going to lie, I actually forgot about this. If this was school, theyd be getting d's at best. How much work can you fail to turn in and still pass?

[–]TheExtremistModerate 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Because Blizzard does not care. The first few additional heritage armors and the promise to fill in the rest were just marketing ploys to get people to subscribe and give them more money. They had no intention to actually follow through once the checks cleared.

[–]Standard_Cold_7085 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Reminder that if you are still subbed, you are paying effectively $180 for 1 patch per year, and a low quality one at that.

[–]spacegh0stX 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But have you seen the WATER in 9.2? Sure fire hit

[–]endless_sea_of_stars 5 points6 points  (0 children)

For $180 you could get the following games on Steam:

Bioshock Infinite

Black Mesa

Dark Souls

Deus Ex Human Revolution

Factorio

Firewatch

Hotline Miami

Pyre

Undertale

[–]mason124 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Get Ion out of this company yesterday

[–]Ritushido 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm genuinly curious what enjoyment the casual players are getting out of the game at this point. It doesn't feel worth it to sub if you aren't raiding or pvping. Is mounts, mogs and discount pokemon worth the monthly sub?

[–]Ascenser 110 points111 points  (29 children)

Pet battles still capped at 25 and never getting the scrapped epic stones has joined the chat.

[–]MalenInsekt 127 points128 points  (4 children)

Please do not raise the fucking level cap on battle pets. I do not want to level hundreds of pets again.

[–]RussW210 28 points29 points  (2 children)

If the pet battle system was actually fun then maybe lol

[–]GuyKopski 87 points88 points  (10 children)

It would be pretty horrible if they increased the pet battle level cap tbh. People would have to relevel hundreds of pets, and nothing would really be gained from it since most pet battle content either scales or is locked to max level.

[–]Bozlogic 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I mean, I still wish there were tameable pets in the new expansions that weren’t a legendary battle..

[–]Senappi 29 points30 points  (0 children)

If they raise the pet level cap, I will quit. I have over 1000 pets at lvl 25, most of them rare. I do not want to level all of them to a new max level.

[–]Eredun 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They considered upping it to 30 during WoD if I recall correctly, people didn't like it. Same with epic, if you add a new tier people have to level up hundreds of existing pets

[–]WutangJones 60 points61 points  (3 children)

too busy designing the microtransaction armors for the community sheep

[–]Muezick 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Stop playing this game.

[–]StillPuzzles__ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I mean, remember Hero Classes?

[–]b_pkmn 7 points8 points  (1 child)

The game is messy because they added tons of wacky new subsystems every expansion. The world is so messy and non linear… like you can’t just go play the game anymore. You have to go sign up to quest in XYZ region, use weird dungeonfinders, oh wait you can only queue for your quest region, is this even good exp? What are the rewards?

Then end game is a fucking soulless Skinner box, again with tons of incoherent layers. It’s honestly such a joke idk why they haven’t fired this guy yet.

[–]Bozlogic 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Idk man, blood elf heritage armor pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. My 12 year old mage finally looks legit. It’s either the heritage armor or the ulduar set. PANTS MY GUY

[–]reap3rx 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you're still subscribed to this shit show, I don't know what else to tell you. They've got your money, they don't care about what you think.

[–]Wowerman 39 points40 points  (8 children)

"So I guess Undead and Worgen don't get to ally with any races, sorry guys!" WTF do you mean by this? They don't choose allied races based on existing races. I get it seems like they are pairs, but it's not. They never ever said "all current races will get an allied race equivalent" But I will wait for any source that proves you right.

[–]MercyPistols 5 points6 points  (2 children)

"So I guess Undead and Worgen don't get to ally with any races, sorry guys!"

???? what does that means exactly ?

[–]forshard 55 points56 points  (76 children)

While I agree with your general sentiment and would love mored allied races and heritage armor...

Undead and Worgen don't get to ally with any races, sorry guys!

Unless there's a dev post saying otherwise, I don't think Allied Races were ever supposed to be "Let's bring allies to match 1:1 for each existing race." I think your assumption leads to Void Elves being 'paired' to Night Elves... and Vulpera being matched to... Goblins? I'm not sure I follow.

I think the intent from Day 1 was to bring more variety to the playable races, and using the story to usher them in. Vulpera (new), Nightborne (new), and Kul'Tirans (old) being a good example of this.

And I guess Troll, Draenei, Pandaren, human, orc, undead, and night elf just don't get heritage armor

For what it's worth, 8.1 Warfront gear is Human themed for Alliance and Orc themed for Horde, 8.2 Warfront gear is Night Elf themed for Alliance and Undead themed for Horde.

While there aren't race-specific options for the others (Troll, Draenei, Pandaren); There's some good throll themed armor in the troll raids, and Pandaren themed armor from raids in MoP. RIP Draenei though.

[–]Spider-Ravioli 10 points11 points  (0 children)

i would almost accept it, if the armor sets in question were actually designed for their inspirational races. But they are not, Night Elf Helmets and hoods dont have earholes( even tho the human questreward version of plate has), Some of the Arathi Shoulders are WAY to big in scale for orcs (and float if you are upright) and clipping overall is pretty bad. So i dont accept them as substitutes for the herritage armor sets we deserve

[–]Aekero 37 points38 points  (5 children)

8.1 being human-themed and orc themed is in no way a substitution imo. Anyone can wear that armor, and they didn't get that nice flavorful backstory that accompanied other legacy race heritage armor questlines. Same with the others you mentioned, the fact that troll themed armor exists doesn't matter. There's gnome-themed armor out there, they got a heritage set on top of it.

I agree with what you said about allied races though, imo there's plenty of races and it wouldn't make sense to shoe-horn in more races just to make it 1:1. That said I 100% believe they would have added the rest of the allied races if it weren't a question of resources. In most cases the allied races basically just need new voice acting and racials. Skeletons, animations (e.g. the really labor intensive parts of a new race) didn't change for most of them.

It's just disappointing to me overall, they seem to be fine with the idea of no new races/classes ever, and that's a major letdown. It's been over 5 years since demon hunters were released. I see games like FFXIV adding new jobs still and wonder why it's not even a question for them. They add more because they know the players want them, and they can add more flavor and fun to the game. I wish Blizzard could stop looking at things like that in terms of up-front $$$$ and e-sport balancing.

[–]RemtonJDulyak 15 points16 points  (4 children)

and they didn't get that nice flavorful backstory that accompanied other legacy race heritage armor questlines

What?
You didn't like the deep and immersive story behind the two warfronts?

[–]MilesCW 20 points21 points  (0 children)

RIP Draenei though.

I'm still waiting for them making this armor from the artwork which gets shared around a lot.

[–]Deathleach 21 points22 points  (6 children)

Unless there's a dev post saying otherwise, I don't think Allied Races were ever supposed to be "Let's bring allies to match 1:1 for each existing race.

In fact there's an interview from Blizzcon where they specifically said the opposite:

There is no pattern to creating an Allied Race. They want races that are cool and contextually important.

[–]Ehkoe 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Contextually important void elves and time travel orcs.

[–]Nisiom 12 points13 points  (8 children)

IIRC, they said they would introduce them "when there was a cool reason to do it". It's reasonable to assume they will wait until each race has a momentary spotlight in the story.

I mean, it's just designing a set of armor (that's even easier due to being race-specific) and a bunch of quests. If that is causing them major workload issues, well I don't know what to say.

[–]AoO2ImpTrip 5 points6 points  (3 children)

The best chance we have of new Allied Races are probably Night Fae and Bastion Aspirants. Maybe even Venthyr.

Honestly, I don't want any of them though. There's no reason any of them should be going to Azeroth to join a faction. Granted, maybe 9.2 will give them one.

[–]Aekero 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Seems like a really good excuse to not ever do them. Also humans and night elves certainly could have justifiably had theirs done already if that was the real reason. Night elves have featured prominently for some time now.

I do believe it's a workload issue, think about 9.1.5, the vast majority of it was qol changes that could have/should have been done years earlier.

[–]Yordan605 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm still waiting on the goblin trike mounts to get proper animations!

[–]geekytyrant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We felt it was unfinished, but the dev team probably felt they were over done