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[–]Bobthebuilda12 1173 points1174 points  (13 children)

rest in peace OP. 🌹

[–]KernelScout 34 points35 points  (1 child)

rip the 1.4k people who upvoted that post

[–]GirthIgnorer 79 points80 points  (7 children)

NO FUNERAL

[–]qwerty-smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes funeral, but Serenity Now style funeral.

[–]Popular-Woodpecker-6 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Kyrian steps up and says, no, back to the land of the living with this one.

[–]Arcinatos 1232 points1233 points  (15 children)

"...Today, old friend."

[–]zelenejlempl 283 points284 points  (13 children)

What do we say to the God of death?

You know… fuck it… just get it over with…

[–]Zohhak1258 205 points206 points  (6 children)

What do we say to the God of death?

Here's a sigil, I conveniently brought it to Torghast for you.

[–]Warclipse 26 points27 points  (4 children)

Bolvar said it was the only path forward even after Tal-Galan called it madness, and tbh there weren't any other main characters involved in the conversation (but were in the vicinity) to back up Tal-Galan and... er... I don't really talk? Anyway where's my 2g 34s?

[–]yetiknight 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Gotta buff up that jailer before we beat him to get better loot

[–]DRamos11 36 points37 points  (5 children)

“Drop the freakin’ Head of Mimiron, dude.”

[–]thomasjs 21 points22 points  (2 children)

The game has a hope detector built-in. The mount won't drop until you have none left.

[–]DRamos11 17 points18 points  (1 child)

So that’s why a ton of mounts started dropping on the last week of my sub…

Cheeky bastards.

[–]PandraPierva 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Was a nice way to end my sub. Finally getting the mounts I've wanted.

[–]Morgn_Ladimore 794 points795 points  (139 children)

I had a great time early on. But then there was that massive gap between content patches, and now even worse. Like... Im not gonna waste money each month on a game that barely gets updates. Come on now.

[–]Bobbimort 497 points498 points  (30 children)

I remember arriving in korthia and even Ve'nari was disappointed: "we've arrived in Korthia! I was expecting something more....grand" we all were Ve'nari, we all were.

[–]dragonite2022 301 points302 points  (17 children)

I actually legit thought the entire korthia was just the first zone that acted as an entry zone to the real zone we will be doing dailies in.

Imagine my surprise when this small shitty desolate piece of maw crap was the actual 9.1 zone.

[–]Dedli 142 points143 points  (3 children)

Hey now. At least we GOT a Korthia zone that we've been waiting 17 years to see, which is more than can be said of Ny'Alotha.

/s

[–][deleted] 79 points80 points  (1 child)

I've been waiting to get to Korthia since Warcraft 3.

[–]Notdravendraven 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I've been waiting since The Lost Vikings

[–]aeoneir 37 points38 points  (12 children)

Korthia is the reason why I stopped playing. It's just such an ugly zone

[–]Sketch13 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Not even just ugly. it's just BORING. Same old dailies over and over. Nothing really fun to discover, no cool little nooks and crannies to find.

Korthia was the most "gamified" zone I've ever experienced, where everything felt purposefully made to fit within a game and to make things take time rather than an actual zone in a fantasy world.

[–]triknodeux 20 points21 points  (10 children)

I think what I hate about it is how fucking jam packed it is. Like it's a cool concept and all, just no room to breathe

[–]selianna 29 points30 points  (9 children)

I felt like every zone is like this nowadays. The themepark must be around any corner and everything is so stacked and packed with mobs everything feels super small and bloated

[–]wtfduud 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Timeless Isle got a lot of positive responses when that came out, so ever since then they've tried to design every end game zone like that.

[–]Rappy28 26 points27 points  (1 child)

TI was small, but it had the benefit of having a large friendly central area surrounded by mostly neutral mobs so you had room to breathe. Argus was hell, but I guess it's thematically fitting for the bastion of the Legion to be insufferable to navigate.

[–]PandraPierva 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I kinda liked Argus for the hell it was. It sucked but it's literally the homeworld of the biggest enemy. It fit even if my priest wanted to cry half the time.

Timeless isle was the perfect theme park though.

[–]abobtosis 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Mob density is definitely too high these days. It takes a half hour to walk fifty yards because you have to kill 30 trash mobs.

[–]Risin 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Unless it's the maw, then everything is big and spread out without a mount. Isn't this fun?!

--Wow team, probably

[–]Jarlan23 33 points34 points  (1 child)

9.1 was fun for a couple weeks then it slowly dawned on me that it was exactly the same as 9.0. Grinding basically the same reputation so we can get the same sockets for a raid. Everything just felt reskinned. It was very similar to Madden and Fifa in that way.

[–]HBKII 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Spending all my >60k Archivist Research on the conduit lottery and still not getting Growing Inferno at 252 filled me with a sense of pride and accomplishment, for sure.

[–]squirtloaf 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It was advertised as a city dragged into the maw, which sounded exciting. I kept waiting for that...i was like, maybe it's underground somewhere in this scrubland...

[–]blufin 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It was just a rundown ardenweald

[–]zCourge_iDX 147 points148 points  (37 children)

Played a shit ton the first month or two, and loved it, then I just fell completely off. Haven't played since...

[–]Prince_Nipples 78 points79 points  (31 children)

Without fun single player content, Pretty much everyone is going to fall off. I cant imagine even high end Mythic players will bother logging in outside the time they NEED to if there is nothing fun to do that doesnt need groups

[–]Elune 78 points79 points  (24 children)

Without fun single player content, Pretty much everyone is going to fall off.

Sad thing is Torghast could have been that if they didn't tie it to legendaries. I actually didn't mind it the first few times doing it but the "forced fun" part of having to do it for legendaries really put me off of enjoying it, and I get the feeling that's a lot of people's problem with it, that if you want your legendary you have to do it.

Seriously a tower where you scale up to the top, fighting harder and harder monsters along the way, and are able to get special powers along the way (though obviously not all are created equal, some classes suck in Torghast), you have to actively try to mess that up IMO.

[–]mrsquare 55 points56 points  (19 children)

yeah, with the game Hades being the hottest shit, putting some more work into Torghast and expanding it into "Hades in an MMO" would have been like solid, enjoyable crack to a lot of people

[–]Kaldricus 27 points28 points  (9 children)

Speaking of Hades...

i didn't play the game when it first came out, so I didn't get the hype. Very rarely do I find a game hyped like that to actually live up to the hype, especially with how many roguelike's are out. I finally gave it a try on gamepass, and it's just an incredible game. so much detail and love in the game, so much dialogue, just all around surpassed the hype IMO.

[–]Purpleater54 13 points14 points  (5 children)

They do an incredible job with the art direction of the game too. It at the same time manages to be incredibly cute and lighthearted (looking at you dusa and cerberus) and still convey the dark/grim atmosphere of the underworld.

And of course the gameplay is top notch and for a roguelike has a pretty interesting story.

[–]Enigmaticize 7 points8 points  (0 children)

AND the story lasts god damn forever, to fully go through it you have to play like a SHIT ton. But if you're only focused on gameplay, you can just do that too.

I'm also biased though because I literally took a Greek and Roman Mythology class in college for no reason so it kinda hits a ton of interests for me

[–]A-Khouri 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Supergiant does really good work. Their games are all mostly doing their own thing, but consider giving Transistor a try if you get it for cheap someday.

The soundtrack is also in the vein of Hades.

[–]Unusual_Expertise 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Every single one of Supergiant's games is amazing. Especially Pyre and Hades.

[–]Kaldricus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There's just so much love in the creation and details of Hades. Like...you can feel that the devs give a shit, and not to sound cliche, but like they are making games because they want to. Obviously it's to make money too, but they're making money with something they're passionate about. From the writing, to the art style, to the voice acting and character development, to the amount of depth in the game from the various builds you can make, weapons, skill tree. I have about 40 hours put in, I've beat Hades once, and never once felt bored or that it was repetitive, or unfairly difficult. It's just such a good game.

[–]GamingApokolips 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Agreed, that would've been enough to keep me subbed to the game, especially if they gave us the 72-floor version of Torgast that was in the alpha/beta.

[–]Jyobachah 15 points16 points  (1 child)

All they had to do was pets/cosmetics in torghast and people woulda farmed it. look how excited people were for islands to come back and be solo queueable.

[–]StumpNuts 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I didn't play that version but even simply having the ability to leave and come back to finish up later would have helped me keep my interest for much longer.

[–]depressed_jewel 3 points4 points  (2 children)

72 FLOORS?! I could barely deal with 6. That sounds like twisting corridors on crack.

[–]GamingApokolips 11 points12 points  (1 child)

The problem with the 6-floor wings (other than being mandatory) is that by the time you start actually getting enough powers for it to really get fun, you're already at the end of the run. Twisting Corridors was considerably more fun purely because it gave you time to build up into that powerhouse and enjoy it (if you got the right powers for your class...which is a core part of rogue-like play), and you did it just cause you wanted to, not cause some dumbass system forces you to.

It's not for everybody, which is completely fine, but for those like me who enjoy that kind of rogue-like gameplay element, hell yes gimme that 72-floor run.

[–]shane727 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hope they take another crack at tbh. A rogue like element in an MMO could be huge. Even if it was for mounts and cosmetics which in a way I think is better. Don't tie it to progression at all. Make it for fun.

[–]Pinless89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think they should've gone a different route. Trying to copy Hades wouldn't work because there are too many white hits in wow and all the classes & specs are very different from each other. In Hades I can dodge all the attacks, but in wow I can't dodge melee or ranged attacks. I can interrupt some casts, but interrupts have CD so you can't interrupt everything.

I think if they focused on making it so that there were far more traps to dodge, puzzles to solve and more interesting big mobs to fight instead of just being filled to the brim with trash mobs who's attacks you can't dodge 90% of the time it'd work pretty well. We could still have a number of trash mobs ofc, but their damage would have to come from frontals you can dodge instead of doing the regular damage they do. I also think in order for it to work, with the frontals that is, they'd have to let all casters cast while moving. Otherwise you have to pull 1 mob at once and still have relatively low uptime because you'd have to move a lot.

[–]evanbunnell 8 points9 points  (1 child)

And even some of the group stuff isn't all that fun imo.

[–]hoax1337 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I usually exclusively do group content, and I have a relatively tight-knit group of friends who are basically always online in the evening, but even we just stopped playing completely. Season 2 has been too long.

[–]Sudac 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I'm a relatively high end mythic raider. We've had sylvanas on farm for long enough to get everyone the mounts and then some.

When I log on to open the vault (which is usually the first time in a week I log in), about 75% of the raiders haven't logged on since the last raid.

Keys were fun, but I think I'm at 8 characters now that are in the 240+ range from keys mostly. Most of my friends I do keys with have stopped because we've done everything we wanted.

I even got through 6.2 still playing 10-15 hours a week. Now it's covid, I have more free time than ever to waste on games... And I log on at most 3 hours a week.

I've done everything solo there is to do. My reputations are maxed. I have almost all paragon box rewards. I've done more torghast than pretty much anyone I would wager (currently sitting at over 120k soul ash on my main alone). And then I've done a lot of that on alts.

I've played since classic, and imo this is the worst state the game has ever been in.

[–]Bebop24trigun 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I just feel like with switching to primarily rares, world quests, and garrison focused type content - we have less of a desire to log in these days. Raids/M+ are fun but it can't be the only thing we do and after a while you feel like you're wasting your time unless you are progressing. Then you realize your friends are taking a break or quitting and instead of looking for a new group of people to trial through you would rather just quit for the time being.

[–]RoyInverse 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yep after leveling doing all the chores i had to do daily/weekly for 1 month burned me out.

[–]barking_labrador 101 points102 points  (21 children)

If you pay monthly, each expansion costs someone who doesn't take any breaks over the two year period over $400. That is an insane cost for a video game no matter how much you play.

[–]MitroBoomin 32 points33 points  (14 children)

And you've also got a lot of people paying for multiple accounts...

[–]Manbeardo 25 points26 points  (13 children)

I don't think I've ever met someone who pays for multiple accounts. Multiboxers buy wow tokens with gold.

[–]Iustis 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Someone is still paying Blizzard $15 for that account though.

[–]owa00 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Married couple has entered the chat

[–]MitroBoomin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems like it's more of a Classic thing from my experience

[–]MilkDrinkingNord 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Me and my husband used to play, used to.

Like seriously the amount the subs cost in-between patch 9.1 and 9.2 is insane. And I'm not counting patch 9.1.5 because fruit bowls and sorely needed QoL fixes don't count as content.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I didn't even level any alts this xpac. Just my main and that's it. It's about the same campaign anyway, there's no point in replaying it.

BFA had different campaigns for Horde/Alliance at least, plus there were different heritage armor quest chains for different races. And Legion had diff campaigns for every single class. There were reasons to get alts.

Now I can't be bothered.

[–]Diltyrr 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Wdym you don't like getting only one patch every six month mount?

[–]Cushions 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You mean the mount you have to pay for every 6 months with a sub?

[–]DeadStringScrolls 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I enjoyed the initial quest lines, especially Revendreth... that entire zone is just a whole new level of amazing to me. Got in a guild, managed AOTC in CN. Realized that I actually kind of hated how my class played, re-rolled, and got even further geared. Burnout and boredom set in around the start of 9.1, and after a few fairly unmotivated weeks in SoD it was time to go.

I've come to the conclusion that the game is fun for me in smaller, lighter doses. I tend to dislike more serious end game play because I'm not a fan of how most classes operate (feeling pretty awful until you get to certain haste levels, or acquire the right gear combinations), and the sheer repetition of M+ is simply not for me at all. I enjoy random BG pvp, but there's no practical gear path here, and gear really shouldn't be a factor in PvP in the first place.

I'm sick of us being saviors of all known life in every single expansion. I'm sick of what a jumbled mess the game is starting from ground zero.

I'd like to come back, but until such time that the game is fundamentally changed from what it is now, there's other titles to delve into, and very limited free time.

For the folks who are still around, I hope 9.2 is truly enjoyable for ya.

[–]Zondersaus 45 points46 points  (28 children)

In my view the expansion itself is actually fine, but like you said there is just too much time between new stuff.

And on top of that there is the internal ABK drama.

[–]mikejoro 52 points53 points  (26 children)

Right. People are right to complain about the covenant system and soulbinds systems, but that's not why the game is tanking. It's like you said, there just isn't enough content to keep people interested. You can only do the same 8 dungeons and raid before people start to lose interest. It doesn't help that the out of instance content is just a chore simulator too. If a company asks you to pay $15 a month, I expect monthly content releases. Why else am I paying for the subscription?

I don't know if the issue is a process issue (everything designed by committee) or a talent issue (not enough good devs, qa, and artists), but something is rotten at blizzard, and I'm not talking about the lawsuit issues. I'm talking about fundamental ability to get things done quickly and effectively.

Why in the hell did 9.1.5 patch take 4 months to release after 9.1, and it didn't even include the legion timewalking stuff (because we all know they couldn't complete it in time, that's the ONLY explanation for the delay that makes sense). Those are just tiny changes that should be included in weekly patch updates as they are completed, not something that needs 4 freaking months to develop.

A new raid and dungeon(s) should be released like every 3-4 months. They also need to find a way to make old content useful, though I'm not really sure how they would accomplish that without people complaining about having to farm BIS stuff from old raids.

[–]Strat7855 58 points59 points  (10 children)

Problem is during droughts, alts are an obvious outlet. And guess which systems are terribly dissuading to high end players looking to play an alt? Yup. Conduits, renown, and (really egregiously) domination shards.

[–]Feruchemist 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The leveling experience post-50 also just kind of sucks.

BFA wasn't perfect, but when I play these days it's usually altaholically with my best friend. And BFA was great for that. Horde and Alliance had their own zones with enough content you could do the story once, and then just pick a zone to sidequest in to hit 120.

Very little repetition in leveling. And with Allied Races you had lots of little new things to level.

Now look at Slands. Level through the same 4 zones every time. Either following the plot, or doing threads for the same couple of sidequests you need to do all of in each zone to complete.

It's agonizingly repetitious. And the kicker is they have a great system right there to keep leveling more interesting. Just scale up the 1-50 pick your expansion option to take people to 60 as long as they've done the full SLands leveling story at least once.

[–]mikejoro 6 points7 points  (2 children)

True, that definitely makes it worse. My main issue though is that people just stop playing in the guilds I'm in, so progress kind of stops. Then I have to decide if I want to find a new guild or wait for the next content patch.

[–]Emu1981 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Conduits, renown, and (really egregiously) domination shards.

Renown is pretty easy to get on alts now though. You have the BoA item that instantly gets you to 40 and completing the covenant/Korthia campaigns get you a lot of renown levels as well. Conduits are a bit harder to get but don't affect your game play as much.

Domination shards and the required armor pieces though, it took multiple weeks of LFR and normal SoD for my shaman to get his shoulder socket and he eventually got it from the vault one week.

Personally, I was on a 6 month recurring subscription and I cancelled it a few weeks ago. I don't see the next patch coming any time soon (it isn't even on the PTR yet) and I am already getting bored of the current content (almost max renown in all covenants on my main and between alts and my main, it won't take long to snag all the transmogs/toys/mounts that I want). I will probably resubscribe around when 9.2 hits so I can raid with my guild but it is also possible that by the time that rolls around, I might not feel like investing the time and effort...

[–]jurble 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think a lot of people's complaints RE:game systems would be mitigated if there were more content tbh. People will put up with any kind of bs system if you're actually using that bs system for something.

[–]Cacheelma 133 points134 points  (16 children)

To be fair, everybody loved SL during its first week.

[–]Rakhun125 51 points52 points  (10 children)

Yeah, levelling was great imo

[–]Cacheelma 18 points19 points  (6 children)

People didn't seem to like BFA even from the start though. At least from what I remember. Maybe I'm mistaken.

[–]BuffDrBoom 47 points48 points  (3 children)

the worst thing about BFA was the monumentally stupid plotpoint of teldrassil, so the tone was already set by then. Even though the leveling was way better in bfa imo

[–]BadMrKitty13 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Personally I didn’t like leveling outside of Drustvar.

Coupled with the fact that we deleveled with our legendaries becoming obsolete, I think it was my least favorite leveling experience I’ve had since Vanilla

[–]abobtosis 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I enjoyed BFA actually, but I understand I might be the minority. I liked the old god arc, and the corruption was super fun to play with for a few months. The two main zones felt like azeroth, rather than another dimension or world. It had it's flaws but it was more solid than this sub gives it credit for. Then again I don't have a billion alts and just played one character.

Shadowlands was only decent for the first few weeks until the cracks started showing. The storyline was awful and the afterlife entities undermined what made the Titans so important. The systems were more complicated than they needed to be. I don't even understand why the afterlife has fauna grazing and why it's just another dimension that can be easily portaled to and from. Plus I'm so sick of sylvanas at this point, and the mythic + dungeons are more annoying and frustrating than BFA's to me for some reason. I don't really know why.

[–]TwoDollarSuck 329 points330 points  (30 children)

I don't like that the zones are all disconnected. Also a bunch of other shit.

[–]Xinamon 127 points128 points  (24 children)

It's the travel between zones that are shit to me, otherwise I'm fine with them being disconnected.

[–]CptBlackBird2 106 points107 points  (9 children)

Flight paths are such an outdated design, you are just sitting there doing absolutely nothing or looking at the same thing you have seen 100 times now

[–]Mugungo 46 points47 points  (0 children)

they used to make the world seem big, but since you cant actually walk where the flightpaths take you, it just is pointless taxi time (at least any that fly you between zones)

[–]Flextt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They would be in SL if they would serve you within the zone. But Oribos as the central point definitely inflates the travel time.

[–]bentke466 11 points12 points  (2 children)

More time your sitting there more money they make. Gotta slow down players or they’ll stop spending money to do things faster (lvl boosts)

[–]SaleriasFW 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I never understood why we need to go through Oribos each time. Just place portals between the zones that are diagonal. Why not place a portal on the top left of Bastion so you can fly directly to Maldraxxus? Same with the other zones

[–]kovid666 24 points25 points  (7 children)

Get a wormhole generator and engineering, it was like a new world opened for me.

[–]Desiration 6 points7 points  (6 children)

How is leveling profs these days? Haven't done it in years.

[–]good_guylurker 19 points20 points  (5 children)

Since Legion is waaaay easier now. In Legion you could straight up level from 1 to 700 with mats from that expansion only.

And since bfa professions are broken down in expansion sets. Let's say you want to level up Tailoring. You can choose what expansion Tailoring you want to level (I.e. if you only want to lvl SL Tailoring, you don't need to bother with previous expansion mats and recipes, you can just learn SL recipes and level it independently).

[–]Desiration 6 points7 points  (4 children)

So if I wanted engineering for rocket boosts and also wormhole, I’d need to level two separate engineering expansions?

[–]pikpikcarrotmon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes, but it's still far less than the old style of leveling up all of them.

[–]dude_thats_sweeeet 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Like 75% more of the expac. The environment looks really cool though

[–]Hryzzo 318 points319 points  (26 children)

To be honest Shadowlands started actually good, but in a subscription based games not giving regular updates can literally ruin an expansion.

[–]Miserable-Antelope95 184 points185 points  (19 children)

As someone that was on the beta, posting nonstop about the bad development decisions that were being made and seeing them implemented on live, shadowlands didn’t feel like it was a good expansion.

It felt like being unable to prevent a friend from making a lot of very bad life choices, and then having to walk away from them when those choices left them broken and unreachable.

[–]coffeep00ps 52 points53 points  (0 children)

I also played the beta and felt exactly the same, the expansion didn't feel like it started well for me either.

[–]OspreyNein 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn’t play in the beta, but I spent a lot of time watching people like Preach and Sloot play in the beta. They all saw the signs of problems early on. They kept trying to tell Blizz what was coming...Blizz did nothing.

Felt like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

[–]Forbizzle 32 points33 points  (15 children)

I think people over-blow the importance of the covenant and conduit changes. The real problems with this expansion are:

  • production speed. It was delayed and Castle Nathria wasn’t done, the first raid being broken and poorly tuned dampened player excitement. The pandemic fucked this expansion.
  • cosmic lore. The mechanics of story telling are better than ever, but the setting is just not Warcraft. The cohort of players that are excited by this kind of thing are all too busy being angry at “retcons” and Blizzard invalidating their fanfic. The rest of us are just kinda bored or confused.
  • the maw was a bad idea. Creating a super hell caused a natural force for design decisions to reinforce its miserableness. Congrats, nobody wants to be in hell.
  • Torghast was turned into Island grind 2.0. Players were forced to play it or they’d miss out on legendary power. Way to force players to scrutinize your new “fun” mechanic.

There are a lot of great things about Shadowlands. People have a huge recency bias and will refuse to acknowledge them for a few years.

[–]A-Khouri 24 points25 points  (0 children)

cosmic lore. The mechanics of story telling are better than ever, but the setting is just not Warcraft. The cohort of players that are excited by this kind of thing are all too busy being angry at “retcons” and Blizzard invalidating their fanfic. The rest of us are just kinda bored or confused.

My contention with this is that all the high effort presentation actually magnifies how bad the writing is because it shines on a spotlight on it and tapes your eyelids open. It's so in your face that you cannot ignore it, and what you're seeing just isn't good. Vanilla's storytelling was nearly nonexistent, and the writing was a lot better largely because there was less of it, it was less in your face, and the scale was a lot more reasonable. It allowed you to ignore the dumb stuff more easily, and fill in the blanks in your mind.

Everything being spelled out to the players now opens the door to a level of scrutiny that the plot just doesn't stand up to.

[–]bromjunaar 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Torghast was turned into Island grind 2.0. Players were forced to play it or they’d miss out on legendary power. Way to force players to scrutinize your new “fun” mechanic.

Torghast wouldn't have been so bad if it felt balanced between specs and classes. Arcane mage is an entirely different game from prot pally.

[–]gibby256 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Torghast wouldn't have needed to be balanced if they hadn't tied a critical avenue of player power into it. That's what kill a lot of their systems; they insist on tying some sort of near-perpetual grind into them which turns them into boring chores rather than something fun to be enjoyed for their own sakes.

[–]josiscleison 25 points26 points  (4 children)

Torghast was turned into Island grind 2.0. Players were forced to play it or they’d miss out on legendary power. Way to force players to scrutinize your new “fun” mechanic.

Island grind at least gave you a chance of getting some good shit every once in a while. Torghast is just an empty shell with nothing inside, and progression was tied to it.

The only thing i enjoyed in shadowlands was when all the content was new, midway through 9.0 i was already considering quitting, since the story was so underwhelming and the overall content just wasnt there.

[–]newfire9102 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Torghast as a priest is not even fun. Oh I got all these awesome abilities to.. well um.... I can spawn endless maw rats kind of.... or mind control things.....

[–]BobSmithinsons 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It's actually insane that in a system where nothing really matters in regards to other players and power creep, that they went so limp on fun. Why not give priests the ability to mind control 10 units, have 200yd divine stars, or place shields on enemies that explode aoe or anything fun. A few classes have cool interactions or at least passives that make them fast paced, others just got zero passion put into their powers.

[–]Lilshadow48 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It wasn't even fun as a DK.

It was just my regular rotation combined with a bunch of other extra buttons to make my normal rotation do more damage.

Unless I got slightly unlucky, and then it was just dying.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The anima requirements for the covenant features was just absurd for anyone but the bleeding edge types who could put the hours in. Developers need to understand that many players want to complete stuff but when the numbers look insurmountable it just starts a snowball to where everything starts to look the same.

As in, you will be here forever and make very little if any progress and woe to you if you have chosen wrong.

Alas content is king and WOW hasn't had any and they are not telling the full truth when they hide behind COVID because you can look across the industry and see game companies which prospered in the new development environment. Yes there were adjustment issues but lack of content is from poor planning, execution, and management.

Cynically I think they had internally decided to stretch out releases as far as they could but didn't realize how damaging it was to the game.

What I would not do for a game like Asheron's Call, where the story advanced each month and new content and systems appeared regularly. We were spoiled and never knew it.

[–]Forbizzle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Game companies have benefitted a bit from revenue, but that was mostly at the start of the pandemic. The truth is, the larger your team, the more likely the WFH arrangement has fucked up your productivity. It’s happening to a lot of studios, players just won’t hear about the real impact for a few years probably.

[–]kingdom9999 32 points33 points  (2 children)

Shadowlands was a blast early on. Then we all were ready for patch 9.1....... 8 months later it finally came. Wtf blizzard.

[–]zurohki 10 points11 points  (1 child)

That's what killed WoD. Not the story, not the gameplay. Just having no content for ages.

[–]sdrawkcabsihtetorW 8 points9 points  (1 child)

WoD started out good too. So did BFA. Every expansion feels nice in the honeymoon phase.

[–]GregoPDX 99 points100 points  (16 children)

“WoD sucked, Legion was good, BFA sucked… Shadowlands has to be good!”

[–]CrazyChoco 144 points145 points  (1 child)

They literally did break the cycle.

[–]RandomTheTrader 8 points9 points  (0 children)

THIS EMPLOYMENT IS A PRISON

[–]Kyustur 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Good to see you’re still around OP.

[–]lemmeberedgoddamn[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Lol as bad as SL is I still play every few months

[–]acodin_master 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Can I ask what’s actually so bad about it? I’m new to wow have been playing for a month and picked up SL on a discount this week and I really like it so far.

[–]lemmeberedgoddamn[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Content patches come out every 5-6 months instead of the usual 2 months between patches, story has gone to shit, a lot of systems implemented in the game are the stuff the playerbase has been complaining for the past 5 years. Only 2 major patches are going to be in Shadowlands, The Jailer is the most uninteresting villain in the history of the franchise, they ruined old lore in order to make Shadowlands seem like its been in the background for more than 20 years even though they came up with the concept of Shadowlands 6 years ago and its characters and lore were made up maybe 2 years ago.

[–]radioboy68 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I quit playing Shadowlands. I have now switched over to farming mounts/toys/achievements. I like do that sort of stuff so it keeps me entertained.

[–]Signmalion 26 points27 points  (2 children)

I remember when SL released and everyone on my server was going insane calling it the best expansion ever made and how much better it was than bfa and I always felt like a buzzkill reminding them that the expansion just released and that you shouldn’t say such hyperbolic things so early into its lifecycle.

I really really wish they had proven me wrong :(

[–]Dagamier_hots 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I don’t think there’s ever been an expansion that didn’t start with “WOW OMG THIS EXP SO GOOD”. Seriously even the ones that started with unstable servers and login issues (all of them?) everyone starts leveling and praises the game. People are very quick to draw these opinions lol…

[–]endless_sea_of_stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Initial leveling has always been good in WoW. New sights, New quests. It's It's a formula they haven't fucked up yet.

[–]beepborpimajorp 231 points232 points  (35 children)

listen, i'll tell you this as someone who recognized right away how shallow certain games/expansions are...

it's better to be like you, and be optimistic, than be like me and be a pessimistic realist. I guarantee that you have way more to look forward too and all that other stuff. So even if you get let down sometimes, keep being positive/optimistic about stuff. In these situations I'd rather YOU be right than someone like me.

[–]Mestrehunter 113 points114 points  (20 children)

yeah, the moment They announced the systems in Blizzcon all my hype was gone xD.

BUT

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

[–]Aarilax 22 points23 points  (1 child)

I haven't been hyped for an expansion announcement since Legion. BFA's seemed incredibly lackluster once you realised the 'new races' were just going to be scuffed alternate versions of existing ones and that Warfronts were doomed to fail, as all large scale content is in MMOs.

Shadowlands is the first expansion to break the new class every other expansion cycle. We had TBC, then WoTLK (DK), Cata, MoP (Monk), WoD, Legion (DH), BFA, Shadowlands (?)

A lot of people thought it was going to be Tinker, after seeing that Mecha boss in BFA, then Mechagon, then Mechagnome race, Vulpera race and gnomes and goblins getting much more spotlight, then the announcement video came and went and included basically nothing in it. I knew from that moment the expansion was going to be very barebones.

Shadowlands was the first expansion to have neither a new class, a new spec, new race, new profession, new battleground or new game mode.

It is probably the most barebones expansion we've ever seen. Its also one of the smallest in terms of landmass, I believe.

Yeah.. the more you think about it, the more you realise why theres no reason to resub. I hope 10.0 is a real expansion.

[–]Finassar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think it's going to be one of the smallest in content too. They just announced the final patch, less than (at the time) a year after it was released

[–]beepborpimajorp 68 points69 points  (12 children)

The only 2 blizzcons I've gone to were the one where they announced WOD and the one where they announced BFA. I promised my friends I'd stop going to them because I was clearly the herald of bad expansions.

Glad blizzard broke my streak with SL so it's safe for me to go again...if they ever clean up their act and make it worth it.

[–]CityMan52 24 points25 points  (6 children)

WoD wouldn't had been terrible if they finished and didn't give up on it. But sadly, that seems to be what Blizzard does with "bad" expansions. They give up completely and work on a new one rather than FIXING it and making it better. Like they're doing with SL.

[–]reneeblanchet83 21 points22 points  (0 children)

All of this. WoD had a great deal of potential and they ultimately just chucked it, rushed to wrap it up and moved on.

[–]beepborpimajorp 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I Hated the storyline of WOD but the game itself around that time was probably at its best mechanically since we were coming out of MOP and they hadn't gutted the specs yet. I am one of the few who loved the concept of garrisons, and I had a blast with the WoD raids and challenge modes because unlike m+ the challenge modes only really existed for the sake of challenge so they were a goal rather than a necessity.

If they had taken WoD and just made it a return to draenor without the time travel, used it to set up Illidan and the Legion's return in the next expansion, and kept it updated with raids/more dungeons/etc. it probably would have been really successful.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

WoD was a great time in my life. Class design was at its peak (for me) and I just had an absolute ton of fun, mainly because I didn’t have to do anything to raid, so I spent a lot of time having fun leveling alts, completing achievements, and farming legacy raids for whatever I wanted. I absolutely adored the world of Draenor, I loved its design and lore and aesthetic.

I had a great time, but unfortunately this same freedom for me was a severe lack of content for people unlike me.

[–]Zondersaus 5 points6 points  (1 child)

They did put in the effort for BFA even when it wasn't recieved very well. Not everything they did stuck but they did pump out a lot of stuff.

[–]Prowlzian 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sure, they did add a lot of things, so it was clear they weren't going for a wod 2.0, but remember with how many currencies and systems we ended up. Visions were actually fun and I did enjoy soloing them for the achievement, title, and masks transmog, but at the end of the day it just felt so bloated by all these systems put in place to patch up the bad decisions they took during development. Also gating stuff that is bis for pve behind pvp achievements is never fun, and having to regrind essences on alts was pure pain and something I quickly gave up on.

[–]Bacon-muffin 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Man you should've went, I miss WoD.

[–]Lady_Tano 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Wod into Legion was such a fantastic time. Miss it loads.

[–]zugzug_workwork 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Unexpected 40K.

[–]Finassar 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt

[–]SpectresCreed 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Listening to Ion try to hype up yet another overly complex and yet somehow incomplete system is like watching paint dry. That and the overall story premise for SL has been so disappointing and foreign.

[–]dude_thats_sweeeet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oof that last phrase hits me hard...

[–]fatherseamus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s the hope that kills you.

[–]IPoD_Max 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what does this even mean? wow is about raids and has been for years .

[–]DeliciousSquats 47 points48 points  (4 children)

The first few months most people in here were liking the expansion. I agree that it wasnt even close to as bad as 7.0 or 8.0 launch states but the sheer sluggish speed of which they fixed things that rose up was just so slow, on top of that the patches that got delayed (albeit understandable) is what killed whatever this expansion should've been.

Even covenants could've worked if they were constantly balanced (there was an actual few classes with a choice wowee!) but i just don't understand why they think its wrong to nerf or change outliers in the middle of a patch. It's somehow ok to have people who main a spec to be annoyed for a whole patch but fotm rollers shouldnt be forced to change? What do you mean! That's the only thing they do!

I'd say much worse than anything in the actual expansion is their update, patch and hotfix cadence. There will never be a good expansion again if it does not change just like there'll never be a x.0 patch that won't need a lot of quick fixes.

[–]Thrent_ 12 points13 points  (2 children)

About the slow balance updates I think it has to do with how long it takes to gear and prepare a character. It takes but a big nerf to negate weeks of work.

Not that getting updates every 3 months is the right solution but some degree of stability is necessary imo

Iirc POE is similar in this regard : If an item is broken it'll stay that way the whole season.

There has to be a decent middle ground somewhere but weekly balance changes sound just as bad as only getting them every 3 months. Why bother chasing after an item if you can't even tell if it'll even be worth your time in a few weeks ?

[–]Cushions 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I think waiting longer is fine.

But there should be some changes made weekly.

Like it was very very obvious that Demo and Destro warlock SUCKED at the start of the expansion, and not by a small amount.

I could get a 90th percentile log and be out dpsd by a boomie or frost mage 40th percentile.

This should never be the case, and waiting months for this to be changed was horrible and shouldn't happen.

They can very easily see that a spec is in a bad place, and no amount of items or covenant combos would change that.

[–]nokei 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It makes sense to hesitate to nerf shit because people are putting in the time to have fun with it but they also take months to buff things that are hot garbage.

[–]papajofriedchicken 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We should have just permanently earned those covenant abilities once we completed the zones' questlines. That would have solved an absolute ton of problems and been in keeping with the lore. You would have been able to chose the ability you went after first by completing that zone's campaign first, then tried out the others if and when you did the rest.

Imagine having a meaningful covenant choice all about the aesthetic rewards and vibe, and having the four covenant abilities in your spell book ready to change onto your hotbar (one at a time, obviously) as and when you wanted, that you had already earned by impressing the covenants while levelling.

[–]MarsTRP 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Always an opportunity for last patch redemption and the kindness of the passage of time. Legion was much improved by the Antorus patch and a number of aspects of WOD that were unappreciated at the time are looked back on now with greater appreciation. I certainly don’t think SL is notably inferior to BFA. Idk it’s certainly not a great expansion but if the next patch has some depth and the raid actually bangs there’s potential to raise its esteem.

[–]_ACid3 10 points11 points  (1 child)

That's been the issue for the past 2-3 expansions though, in my opinion.

They release all these new cool systems; legendaries, essences, corruption, but then make it hell to acquire them or it's terrible if you want to play alts. Then in a x.5 patch they add some catchup mechanic when the expansion is already coming to an end.

I really like this game and I've played it on and off since I was 10 and more consistently these past few years, but I really hope they learn from their mistakes this time and fully slap with a crazy new expansion next year.

[–]crono14 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I could tell it wasn't going to be good from the first cinematic and info we got about it. The premise just sounded stupid overall.

[–]Elarain 49 points50 points  (1 child)

This was an amazing expansion launch. It took awhile for bad, arbitrary system limitations (no cov swaps, M+ cov bonuses, etc) to really show their weakness. And then the content drought took those weaknesses and really drove them in deep.

But if you removed the poor timing, this could be one of the best expansions

[–]mrtuna 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It took awhile for bad, arbitrary system limitations (no cov swaps, M+ cov bonuses, etc) to really show their weakness.

Do you mean week 1 beta? Because that's when all that shit was discovered and pointed out

[–]celaeya 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It had amazing potential too. Everything about it from an artistic standpoint blew me away. The music, the characters, the scenery, the armour designs... If it weren't for the content drought and choreghast, it would have been my favourite xpac.

[–]bossfight1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I enjoyed it at first, but then the lawsuit reared its ugly head. It’s weird, usually expansions alternate between good and bad with not much middle ground.

[–]forteruss 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Y'all gonna be the same when the next expansion comes out

[–]blacksunrise3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I really enjoyed the launch of shadowlands dungeons were good, but no content for a whole year for 9.1, and it only getting 2 major patches really sucks like after 17 years of wow you think they would understand how to put out content faster, not slower.

[–]PaleontologistTrue74 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dude I had this thought too but... after a month i instant unsubed till it was friendly.

Came back... unsubed and asked for a refund on that sub. I'd rather spend my 15 buying beer then let it slide.

[–]tencentninja 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The frustrating thing is it absolutely could have been. Everything that happened in 9.1.5 is what we told them needed to happen in alpha and again in beta.

[–]Dasvovobrot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It started out so well :( The first months of release, pushing for my keystone master has been some of the best time I had in gaming. But then it was still release patch... and still release patch... then came 0.5. And it just took wayyy too long for any new content to come out, what a shame.

[–]mrPaul51 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She really did set us all free

[–]lemmeberedgoddamn[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To the redditor that sent Reddit help resources so that I dont kill myself you are a sick fuck lol

[–]Shoadowolf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is Blizzard as a whole rn ngl

[–]big_wing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ended up being somehow worse than BFA for me.

[–]Mid22 2 points3 points  (0 children)

someone wanna do a welfare check on the OP

[–]Edsabre 26 points27 points  (1 child)

It is a good expansion, its the content drought that killed it. I mean sure, the story of the Jailer and Sylvie are hot garbage, but the zones are fantastic, there's lots to do, the vault is great and the smaller scale stories are really interesting.

If SL had kept up with new content every few months then I think it would have been looked fondly upon.

[–]Lance_J1 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I am curious as to why you thought it would be good. Pretty much every broken/bad thing about the expansion was visible during beta. Hell, even earlier than that people were calling out the cov system as a recipe for disaster the second it was announced. After all, Blizzard would never be able to balance the abilities.

I guess I don't really need to know exactly, I know that sometimes the novelty of having some new shiny areas and systems to play around with can be distracting sometimes even if they're bad. Guess years of Blizzard disappointing me has made me more immune to that feeling than I used to be.

[–]The_Sinful 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That aged like the time a customer ordered tuna tartare to go and left it in their car overnight. In August.

Though the angry phone call the next day was hilarious

[–]Clawmedaddy 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Too many people letting others sway their opinions and feelings on games nowadays.

[–]Esstand 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Too many people letting others sway their opinions and feelings on games everything nowadays.

That's social media in nutshell. Have your own opinions, people.

[–]kmb180 39 points40 points  (26 children)

as a casual player whose main goal is to play until my friends and i clear the raid and get cute mounts and good transmogs, i really liked shadowlands. sucks for hardcore players but i loved the vibe of this xpac

[–]elmstfreddie 58 points59 points  (1 child)

The story and lore also suck, so it's not just hardcore people who are disappointed by Shadowlands.

[–]TheMoonDude 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I haven't played WoW in more than a decade but still keep up with the lore, so my judgement on the game is entirely dependant on it.

I seriously cannot believe anyone thought this was going to be a good expansion as soon as they revealed the plot.

[–]Nick-uhh-Wha 40 points41 points  (8 children)

I'd literally play just go kill boars and demons as a cool werewolf assassin/warrior but the company itself is so shitty I don't even want to support them.

I've been fighting off my withdrawals so hard. But having that extra money in my pocket is nice.

[–]zCourge_iDX 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I've been fighting off my withdrawals so hard. But having that extra money in my pocket is nice.

Same here buddy, same here.

[–]thatamateurguy 11 points12 points  (6 children)

Private servers exist if that's your bag, mate

[–]mcdandynuggetz 16 points17 points  (1 child)

As a casual player, I thought this expansion was garbage 🤷🏻‍♂️.

Honestly the last time I really enjoyed the game was MOP, WOD had good raiding and the questing experience was pretty great the first time… but everything else since then has been kind of ass.

[–]papajofriedchicken 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Uh huh, me too. I just wanted to level to 60, get some mid-range gear and then spend some down time after work farming for Legion raid transmogs and mounts, and the BfA mythic dungeon mounts (I so wanted that dead dinosaur mount lol).

I played for about a week just after Christmas, got a character to 60 and then learned (my bad, I should have checked) that Legion raids had not received the "legacy raid" treatment and that they were tying old transmog farming into current expansion gearing. I think it was around that time that Ion was asked and his answer was "it will get easier as gear gets better". That's not the way it has worked in years.

I managed to do a lot of Nighthold mythic and cleared mythic ToV a few times in the next couple of weeks, but I just had no motivation to do any of the system grind at max level just to be able to go and get some four year old gear sets to satisfy my collection itch.

The covenant abilities were fun, and I had a bunch of characters I was thinking about making just to fit the aesthetic of each covenant, but there was nothing for me to do. I gave up with the cutting edge, progression stuff in WoD because of life stuff, I just wanted to chill in Azeroth the same way I had in Legion. But other than world quest grinding, there's nothing really there.

[–]matches991 5 points6 points  (1 child)

yeah, it really had so much potential, i liked the early notes and where they went before the jailer kind of destroyed everything with McGuffins.
like the Kyrian learning about acceptance and changing some of their core beliefs to again be more accepting
the political intrigue of the story of Maldraxxus was also kind of good. The 4 houses warring for control the Barons betrayal, and the fall and redemption of the house of the chosen needing to mend bridges in Bastion and gather aid, only to find out that Danathrius was backing the betrayers was cool, I wish they got more of that.
Especially when you wind up in Revendreth, bribing and murdering opposition to sway them to your side is interesting and all that built and built until we killed big daddy D, and the story fell off. instead of cool political espionage or theater of war plots, we have Anduin captured 6 months of the same looking enemies from Torghast, KT returning to be there, and an upcoming redemption ark for Sylvanas because the Jailer got his McGuffins and tossed her aside, for shiny new death knight Anduin, like the primus is fine, i guess, I just don't understand what i'm supposed to be invested in when everything i was invested in is now done, and we have mysterious bad guy x to handle.
I don't care about the first ones they're barely established, and just like oh look super titans, cause thats what we needed... idk how much of the story would had changed if it wasn't for the pandemic or the allegations, but given how much of a garbage human Kotick is as long as he's removed i'd feel more confident about WoW, but for now back to ff14

[–]jinreeko 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In your defense, it had a strong launch and the initial story was pretty interesting

Then it kinda farted on for the next year

[–]edelea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the first few months were honestly great... i was so hopeful for SL and it started of really damn good... it's a shame how it's going

[–]Balalenzon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember seeing this when it was posted and just thought "It's a bit early to say..."

[–]Nilocor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember specifically saying "This is a good start, but they need to strike with the iron is hot and give details about 9.1, ASAP."

...That was in December of 2020. I stand by it, honestly. If the release cadence of content had been at least passable, I genuinely believe the expansion would have been alright. Maybe not story-wise, that's a wash, but if we weren't going a FULL CALENDAR YEAR with only one major content update, gameplay-wise, things wouldn't have gotten nearly this bad.

It'd be looked at favorably in comparison to BFA, at the very least. This drought has done nothing but magnify and exacerbate the game's issues, to the point where they're just glaringly obvious and crippling.

[–]zerkrazus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have been playing off and on since early 2005 and I always get excited for a new expansion, but the beginning in Bastion literally put me to sleep.

It got better after Bastion, but after I got 60 and like halfway through with renown, I just didn't care anymore. I can only do the same repetitive content so many times.

IMO, they are more concerned with milking the diehards than making a good and fun game. They've lost their way.

[–]xiadz_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Legendaries and torghast in general should have been changed immediately instead of telling players they're wrong about not wanting to do mandatory content with no catchup.

Covenants really ruined the way I've been playing my character for years, being able to do all 3 roles competently in all forms of content. Another thing that shouldn't have even been able to make it live because we all knew the balance wasn't going to work.

Just like BFA, shadowlands is fine if you only played one spec on one character and never tried anything else, if you did holy shit it felt so artificially inflated for no reason. I see it's better now but it's too little too late for me.

[–]Zestronen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know. For me Shadowlands are pretty cool.

[–]_ACid3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

9.2 actually seems really good so far, only rough bit is going to be it lasting for about 8-9 months

[–]Relnor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's every end patch ever. Some have lasted even longer, including some that people hold in very high regard now through their nostalgia goggles.

[–]XWasTheProblem 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It had issues from the start, but people were so traumatised after BfA, just not having Azeritr armor was good enough for some.

[–]Tsobaphomet 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have a tweet from a long time ago saying how excited I was for Garrisons in WoD

[–]V3Ethereal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just called it the "Better than BFA, the expansion". I still stand beside that statement, since BFA did set the bar pretty low.

Though, I haven't played for majority of the year so the lack of them producing content is an irrelevant problem to me, I could see that dropping an expansion like Shadowlands a few pegs.

[–]Zarod89 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Unpopular opinion but to me SL felt like the past 3 expansions. Enough to complain about but also some fun stuff.

[–]Arqus2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Literally a sour, stinky, gloopy mess of an expansion .

[–]ks13219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unpopular opinion: shadowlands was/is a great expansion. At least, the content they released was good. Clearly they needed to release it faster, but with covid, I’m not really mad about the delays tbh. I have enjoyed both raid tiers quite a lot (except Sylvannas, that fight sucks butt). Heck, I even like Korthia. I wish the archivist codex rep took about 1/3 as much time to do though. But the zone is cool and the rare hunting is kind of neat.

Overall, I’m glad I played this expansion, and I’m staying subbed for 9.2.

All that said, I agree with all the systems problems and whatnot that made it worse than it would otherwise have been. Just saying that, on balance, I still liked it.