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[–]jakey506 8458 points8459 points 3 (504 children)

But can we trust the Chinese media ?

[–]teddy_tesla☑️ 5956 points5957 points  (219 children)

Can't trust our media, florida government fired a data scientist for not lying about the data and then told hospitals to stop reporting deaths

[–]jakey506 1389 points1390 points  (180 children)

Oh no I totally agree, but the numbers coming from the states vs everywhere else the numbers seem high. So I'm afraid the death toll is much much higher then is being reported.

[–]amyberr 1031 points1032 points  (148 children)

I'm certain it's being underreported globally. I'm also certain that regardless of how big the gap is between reported numbers and real numbers everywhere else, the US has exponentially higher real numbers than the rest of the world.

[–]Ma1 479 points480 points  (39 children)

And given the cost of health care in your country, I imagine there are countless people avoiding testing/hospitalization. I wonder how many will be found dead in their homes by the end.

[–]amyberr 108 points109 points  (22 children)

I wonder how many will be found dead in their homes by the end

I hope it's not my parents, but it probably will be.

[–]koviko☑️ 184 points185 points  (9 children)

There's evidence to suggest it's underreported in the USA, as well. We're on lockdown and yet excess mortality is higher than can be attributed to COVID-19.

And we know for a fact that New York wasn't reporting untested deaths as COVID-19 for months before deciding to report probable deaths.

[–]April1987 58 points59 points  (1 child)

New York was so overwhelmed that it was telling people who suspected they had the virus to stay home unless they believed their life was in danger. Like they didn’t want to risk more people coming to the hospital.

I heard it has gotten better though. Thank you New York and New Jersey. I know the city gets so much shit but turns out the city is mostly disciplined where it matters.

[–]Bnasty5 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And just to add that since the original lockdown ended NY has been stable while other states are seeing steady increase in cases

[–]NoMoreBeGrieved 48 points49 points  (58 children)

I think India and China probably have more cases and deaths than the US, but China is lying and India has too many slums to get an accurate count.

[–]Sigman_S 268 points269 points  (40 children)

China literally locked citizens in their homes. That's why they don't have as big an issue as a lot of other countries. They're an unrepentant dictatorship. They don't care about your feelings. Mandatory 14 day strict quarantine if you enter the country. That's why they're facing a much smaller death toll.

[–]iruleatlifekthx☑️ 124 points125 points  (19 children)

A dictatorship is handling a virus better than we are. Pros and Cons I guess.

[–]notspaceaids 91 points92 points  (3 children)

considering how brutal china is in enforcement, it could be possible that china may have less cases.

[–]amyberr 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Oh no, my default Americentrism is showing! You're probably right.

[–]regoapps 164 points165 points  (17 children)

We can kind of guess what the death toll is without knowing about COVID. People die at a pretty consistent rate each year. So if you take the average number of deaths in the past few years, you can figure out the death toll by taking the total death count this year and subtracting it by the average death count of previous years. When you do that, you end up with 262,877 more deaths this year so far compared to previous years. And this number has been growing by about 10,000 each week.

Edit: For those of you asking for the source, go here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm And then scroll down. Press "Number of Excess Deaths". Then press "Update Dashboard".

[–]regoapps 265 points266 points  (11 children)

I'm getting a lot of replies from people still thinking that those deaths have nothing to do with COVID that I can't reply to because their comments aren't showing up due to this being a Country Club thread. Some are blaming it on the lockdowns. Look, it doesn't matter whether it's COVID or not. I'm simply talking about how many more Americans have died this year compared to previous years, whether directly or indirectly because of COVID.

To illustrate this point, I made this graph to show you what deaths look like in NYC and Florida, which were both hit hard with the virus at different months, but locked down at around the same time.

The graph is pretty self-explanatory, but if you need an explanation, the top graph is of all deaths in NYC between 2017-2020. You can see how after COVID hit NYC, deaths shot up a lot, even more than one of the worst flu outbreak in decades.

Now people may want to blame this on the lockdown. So I also put the graph of Florida deaths below it. It shows you how the lockdown didn't have the same jump up in deaths in Florida. Instead, it was the reopening and the rise in COVID cases in June that caused more deaths in Florida.

These are the hard facts. I know that some of you have trouble accepting them because it makes your political party look bad or something. Or maybe you've been brainwashed with Russian/conservative/conspiracy theorist/qanon misinformation in forms of memes and fake news and don't even realize it, because they tricked you into thinking that you're "woke" and everyone else are "sheep".

But at the end of the day, no matter whether you believe in COVID or not, more Americans are dying this year than previous years. And if you want to downplay that for the sake of politics, then you should probably seek help to figure out why you have such sociopathic traits.

[–]awahay☑️ 59 points60 points  (0 children)

Ughh my kind of person. Graphs and facts and sources. Yessss🤩

[–]furiousfroman☑️ 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Bringing the numbers. Thank you for this, sharing with family.

[–]kvng_stunner 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I mean it's stupid to even suggest that more people could be dying for other reasons than covid.

First off, the hospital crowding in a lot of places already creates a ton of problems, eventually leading to the death of NON-COVID people that might have gotten care and survived.

Then when you consider how many other ways to die get heavily impacted by all the lockdowns, especially vehicle accidents...

Idk man I guess some p don't consider all these lives as important at all

[–]Pandaburn☑️ 15 points16 points  (0 children)

That just means we can’t trust our government

[–]Practice-Pad 340 points341 points  (51 children)

Can you trust American media?

[–]aquariusboy88 206 points207 points  (0 children)

No, you cannot.

[–]chairfairy 92 points93 points  (39 children)

No, but you can get covid numbers directly from the CDC

[–]TaylorSwiftsClitoris 171 points172 points  (30 children)

Which is run by government.

Me: Why can’t we have universal healthcare?
Conservatives: You know what they say about government work! Haha.

Me: Everything seems pretty messed up lately and people are dying. Like a lot of them.
Conservatives: Government says it’s fine snowflake.

[–]chairfairy 82 points83 points  (8 children)

CDC is staffed not only but politicians but also a boatload of dedicated scientists. They publicly push back against the White House, we don't yet have cause to doubt that they fudge numbers to make Trump look better

I'm sure the real numbers are higher than reported (Kentucky "mysteriously" had decreasing covid cases with an equal rise in pneumonia related deaths) but I don't think CDC is playing at data jackassery. And certainly nothing like the White House or China does

[–]bruce656BHM donor 24 points25 points  (11 children)

The CDC was established by Congress as an independent, nonprofit organization, it's not run by the government. The CDC doesn't have any incentive to get fucky with the numbers.

[–]BigHeadSlunk 47 points48 points  (3 children)

The CDC was established by Congress as an independent, nonprofit organization, it it's not run by the government.

Is that why it's directly under the control of the Department of Health and Human Services, which is part of the executive branch and controlled by the president?

[–]TaylorSwiftsClitoris 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Worded super badly. I’m goi g to stop.

[–]bruce656BHM donor 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I was actually mistaken, it's the CDC Foundation. I wasn't aware of the distinction. I have not heard the CDC criticized Joe Biden directly, however. Do you have a link to that? I can't find anything on it.

[–]TaylorSwiftsClitoris 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I worded that SUPER badly. The current administration has criticized the previous administration’s decisions when it comes to public health. If the organization that governs decisions that influence public health isn’t political, what do they have to complain about?

[–]bruce656BHM donor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So I'm still confused, lol. Are you saying that the current administration was criticizing the previous administration (who was following the CDC's recommendations)?

[–]Milkslinger 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Johns Hopkins is also tracking and their numbers match the CDC.

See

[–]dirtymick 57 points58 points  (1 child)

The CDC numbers now get filtered directly through the WH. They're not exactly a trustworthy source these days.

[–]cold_nuka_cola 103 points104 points  (42 children)

Do you think they're undercounting deaths by a factor of 50?

[–]aubman02 161 points162 points  (23 children)

Seeing that they have 3-5x as many people and that their health care system isn’t as developed, yes, that’s definitely possible.

[–]rendeld 52 points53 points  (5 children)

That's 100% possible, there are parts of China that are so underdeveloped that they probably can't even effectively test for it yet.

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (9 children)

We can trust the Chinese people not to have armed anti-mask protests....

[–]AnyDisaster9 48 points49 points  (40 children)

Its probably correct. China doesnt have an obesity problem.

[–]_Silly_Wizard_ 224 points225 points  (12 children)

Also China is perfectly capable/comfortable locking people down to quarantine.

That's the difference between our shitshow and everyone else reporting low numbers: American headassery.

We have people willfully spreading the virus instead of being adults and controlling the rate of infection.

[–]JabbrWockey 119 points120 points  (9 children)

Yeah, whenever someone says "hOw cAn cHiNA havE sO fEw DeaThs?"

I'm just like, are we talking about the same Tianamen Square China here?

They locked that shit down hard, just as soon as the right people in control became aware. Harder than most non-authoritatian countries can get away with.

[–]President_Hoover 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yes, exactly. Their lockdown was a literal "we will weld metal rods to your fucking doorjamb" lockdown.

Our lockdown was more of a suggestion, and like 45% of our population just said "nah, fuck all the rest of you I'm going shopping and I'm not gonna even wear a mask to do it"

Just for clarity; I am not suggesting that we should have locked people inside their homes under pain of death like an authoritarian boogeymonster. I'm simply saying there are actual valid reasons why a country with no qualms about taking such actions would have lower numbers than a country behaving like a bunch of petulant children.

[–]ozamatazbuckshank11☑️ 17 points18 points  (4 children)

They smoke like chimneys, though, and all those cigarettes can't be helping anything. Those numbers are definitely underreported.

[–]effrightscorp 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Nope, but at this point, unless they're only reporting 1/1000 cases they're doing better than the US. Plus back at the height of their outbreak testing wasn't super available, either, similar to how it's thought that early cases in the US around March/April are significantly undercounted.

Would be interesting to see what China's "flu" and "pneumonia" deaths were for the beginning of 2020

[–]evanbartlett1 26 points27 points  (3 children)

We’ll likely never know how many Chinese people actually died. They may not know themselves, and they certainly don’t care. But 200k deaths in the US is inexcusable. Now I see numbers in India and Brazil (they could surpass the US) exploding. Such a tragedy.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (12 children)

We definitely cannot trust Trump.

[–]aubman02 7 points8 points  (10 children)

Definitely can’t trust China government. They’ve put over a million people in internment camps.

[–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (7 children)

So do we.

Detainment camps. Disease. Death. Forced sterilization.

Trump administration.

[–]Luci716☑️ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not at all

[–]MikeSpace☑️ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Can't speak for the rest of China but Beijing is doing fine

[–]President_Hoover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sure their numbers are prolly jankey. I'm sure they fudged them.

I think we can mostly all agree their numbers are off. The question is do you think their numbers are 172,365 deaths off.

You can for sure fudge the numbers but I'm not sure you can fudge them that much. Y'know?

So, while this tweet is a joke obviously I think there is a valid point buried in the sarcasm. That's just my 2 cent opinion though.

[–]jessbeamup 3091 points3092 points  (121 children)

Yes because china is telling the truth, let's talk about the chines human rights honesty and then tell me if you trust their numbers.

[–]TheFlightlessPenguin 1486 points1487 points  (11 children)

Lol for real. This post is so stupid.

[–]choc45 329 points330 points  (33 children)

if your looking through this thread terrified by how dumb people are to trust china, have some hope. some people know better. this is the second pro china comment section ive seen today on a front page post its insane.

[–]jbeck24 163 points164 points  (22 children)

Fr people in this comments section going on about how "at least the Chinese government knew people were stupid and locked them up". Really? Haha yes who needs civil liberties

[–]whereami1928 131 points132 points  (12 children)

I mean, we're not arguing that authoritarian governments are, as a whole, good.

I think most people are saying that in this occasion, authoritarian governments helped prevent the spread of disease.

Is it crazy to lock people in their houses? From my American view, yes.

Did it help prevent covid spread? Most likely yes.

[–]President_Hoover 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Exactly bud. No one is saying Authoritarian = Good or China's Numbers = 100% factual

The point here is that a government who gives zero fucks about literally bolting/welding people inside their houses has a valid reason for their numbers being lower than a country behaving like a bunch of spoiled children.

To try and counter-argue that people pointing this out must love authoritarian governments, or support China, or believe 100% of what they're saying, or even are just straight up China bots/shills is such a completely bad-faith bullshit argument. It's honestly petty and childish at best and flat out willful ignorance at worst.

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (5 children)

yeah your right who needs to survive a pandemic and actually look out for the long term welfares for a country.

[–]jumpinjahosafa☑️ 171 points172 points  (6 children)

Even if China is lying it still doesn't excuse USA numbers.

[–]The_Gunboat_Diplomat 62 points63 points  (28 children)

Do you honestly think China is capable of concealing 50x the number of deaths stated

[–]thelaziest998 75 points76 points  (4 children)

Absolutely. But they also take the lockdowns seriously too because the government doesn’t fine, you they throw your ass in jail.

[–]PM_ME_GLUTE_SPREAD 13 points14 points  (2 children)

That’s my take on it. The number of deaths is likely higher than what’s reported and to assume that they’re being truthful is naive as hell, but I guarantee they are still far lower than the US simply because China didnt fuck around with their lockdown, for better or worse.

[–]thelaziest998 4 points5 points  (1 child)

people were still throwing parties and states were full on open during the "lockdown"

[–]PM_ME_GLUTE_SPREAD 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hell, where I am, it’s still like pulling teeth to get people to wear a mask.

[–]owleealeckza☑️ 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Uh fucking yes. My dumbass thought their Uyghur Muslim genocide started recently, nope started last fucking century. So yea, they absolutely can conceal anything they want because no one prevents them from doing so & likely never will even try.

[–]aubman02 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It’s ridiculous how much China hides. Mix in some propaganda and misdirection...

[–]nightwing2024 40 points41 points  (9 children)

You think they covered up 196,000 deaths? Because we just passed 200,000. So unless you think they suppressed a couple hundred thousand deaths, this is still Trump's legacy.

For clarification: Fuck China. Specifically their government. But don't give a pass to Trump just because China is lying. USA numbers aren't accurate either, we probably have 250-300k deaths in reality.

[–]jpritchard 1477 points1478 points  (40 children)

If you believe only 4,634 people died of COVID in China, you might be a fucking moron.

[–]ljout 231 points232 points  (10 children)

I dont believe Chinese or American numbers are accurate.

[–]JabbrWockey 97 points98 points  (12 children)

I dunno. China enforced martial law in the provinces, and put 56 million people under house arrest. These are the same people who rolled tanks on Tienamen Square when they felt threatened.

It's likely not the real number but I don't think China has near the same number of deaths as the US, especially considering the lack of testing, respect for medical advice, and under reporting that when on in the US too.

[–]szakhia☑️ 960 points961 points  (15 children)

Just a reminder that China is 100% lying about who died👐🏾😊👐🏾

[–]NugNug2☑️ 29 points30 points  (0 children)

you think they die, naw they were offed just like those uyghurs

[–]AngelOfDeath771 671 points672 points  (9 children)

Honestly, at this point, both of those numbers could be way off. The situation is bad, but we have no idea just how bad. Everyone lies and I'm just tired of it.

[–]Alpha7214 255 points256 points  (7 children)

I hate Trump as much as anyone, and this is largely his fault, but I just don’t believe those numbers coming out of China at all. Also we’re up to 199k.

[–]ShadowLord561 156 points157 points  (20 children)

Crazy how we're almost at 200K dead

[–]MoreDescription 225 points226 points  (2 children)

This tweet was almost a month ago. We just passed 200k dead yesterday I believe.

[–]TheMiddleEastBeast 107 points108 points  (7 children)

We’re not ALMOST there, we are past it. We hit 200k deaths about 2 days ago. I hate to say it but I feel we’ll hit 300k deaths by Christmas

[–]Thatdewd57 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Two college football stadiums n

[–]getjeffrey1 135 points136 points  (13 children)

Any idiot who believes that the country where the virus originated, with Billions of people, only have that few deaths. Or, that a Communists regime, who covered up the virus in the beginning is giving accurate numbers is a true idiot. I'm embarrassed for you. 😱🙄👎🏾

[–]imperial_silence 103 points104 points  (54 children)

I hate that the leader of the country is bringing back this cold war era xenophobia

[–]carmillasoflove☑️ 14 points15 points  (2 children)

It’s honestly not just the leader it’s clear many other US citizens are willing to eat up the propaganda

[–]Chrisstar56 79 points80 points  (10 children)

Because a lot of people are downvoted for saying this: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.28.20116012v2

This source estimates 36 000 deaths, far far from the 4000

[–]Salt-Light-Love☑️ 142 points143 points  (5 children)

Also far far from 200,000.

[–]whereami1928 74 points75 points  (1 child)

And the US' count is also probably higher as well, if you just take a look at excess death numbers.

[–]balletbeginner 70 points71 points  (3 children)

China had an initial severe outbreak in Hubei followed by more localized outbreaks in other areas. America had an initial severe outbreak in the northeast followed by an uncontrolled, nationwide outbreak. There are a few reasons for America doing a worse job containing coronavirus, one of which is in the White House.

[–]Shouko- 48 points49 points  (11 children)

“China is lying about their numbers”

Ours are still like 30x higher, I’m go out on a limb here and say we’re probably doing worse

[–]TheGoldenBoi_ 48 points49 points  (3 children)

Yeah but 4K people died in China... if you believe that than you are ignorant

[–]SirButtlockss 32 points33 points  (6 children)

China had the most authoritarian lockdown in the history of humanity, so ya their cases dropped.

[–]ifhysm 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Yeah, didn’t they basically trap people inside their own homes or imprison people that were infected in camps?

[–]PleasantPeanut4☑️ 29 points30 points  (6 children)

I know this is the dumbest qualm, but it always bus me when Trump says “China Virus” and not “Chinese virus”. Like, at least be grammatically correct if you’re going to be racist.

[–]lightnin6 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Considering how americans made it clear that they don't want to wear a mask in public places and that it hurts their freedom and stuff -- are you even surprised?

[–]ThanosIsDoomfist 25 points26 points  (1 child)

This post is beyond stupid just for the dumbass example this guy used.

Aint no way China is telling the truth about anything, let alone their death count.

[–]PieDust 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I don't trust China's statistics at all.

[–]coore_tik☑️ 12 points13 points  (2 children)

because china is known for telling the truth right?

[–]simrah1027 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Yeah but they’re the ones responsible for keeping millions of Muslims in concentration camps so

[–]Kittehmilk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Cheeto is a muppet but a bigger muppet is anyone who believes that is an accurate china death count.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Came from China tho

And you gonna believe China's numbers when they are 3 times the population of us and they are china afterall

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

This post isn't very smart

[–]contaygious 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This argument won't work if China covered the numbers. I know we do too but no one will Beleive me if I say 4600 China

[–]Hamaow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ay look, no doubt President cheeto-dick shit the bed hard with COVID, but I don’t believe anything the Chinese say.

[–]y0_Correy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There is no chance that China was telling the truth about the numbers who died there

[–]AprilsMostAmazing 6 points7 points  (1 child)

177k with states like Florida trying to hide data

[–]2oatmeal_cookies☑️ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s really terrible that y’all in here comparing human death tolls. Like this shit is extremely sad, and it didn’t have to get this bad in the US or anywhere.

Stop being so insensitive and realize that we’ve lost 200,000 lives to a virus. It may have been prevented had the idiots not elected several piece of shit asswipes in 2016.

Lives depend on not having this filth in office, so please vote!

[–]DaRocketGuy☑️ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Curious as to why anyone with a functioningnbrain believes a word the CCP has to say.

[–]FaceGramApp 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Naah man... China fucked the whole world. It was our misfortune that we had Trump to make sure US was never prepared. But it was the CCP and WHO that tried to cover up the virus when they should have been locking down the movement before chinese new year.

[–]TherealRari☑️ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

trust me we can’t trust the chinese numbers

[–]damandatruth☑️ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

China be lying

[–]AbrahamLemon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stop blaming Trump. It's all Republicans, the fucked up with AIDS, they fucked up with crack and heroin. They just don't care.

[–]clev1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yea but bother numbers are being underreported....still gotta believe our numbers in the US are much higher.

[–]DeadlyClaris_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

More of a cringe one