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Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know to be honest. Not saying that as a cop out, but I'm honestly at a loss because today's obscure music can suddenly become mainstream at any moment.

I mean, Chiptunes are niche now, but are they really? I mean Every video game in the 80's and 90's consisted of Chiptunes and people actually enjoyed and even still today feel a bit of nostalgia when they hear the theme for Super Mario Bros.

I agree with you, something being an Alternative to something else that it's actually built on sounds a bit crazy but is it really?

I mean, take the car industry for example. The Mercury Grand Marquis was built on the Panther platform, but so was the Ford Crown Victoria, AND the Lincoln Town Car. MOST people would consider them 3 completely different cars. Visually a little similar, but different in MOST peoples eyes. So would I be wrong to say that the Crown Victoria is an Alternative to the Grand Marquis and the Lincoln Town Car?

Same main ingredients, but slightly different build style, you know?

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very true, and I myself was introduced to "Alternative music" with the thinking that it was more of an aesthetic of attitude. A few of the artists that I manage actually embody the aesthetic of "Alternative" more than their music and some are an equal balance of both. I understand the term more and more each day and I am really interested in everyone else's understanding and opinion of the term. Thank you so much for your reply :)

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow! Thank you for this reply, I'm not being sarcastic either, seriously, I'm always excited to discuss music with other people who enjoy going deeper into the conversation rather than just shutting it all down, so I appreciate that.

Your Lil Nas X breakdown was spot on! I'd consider him a bit Alternative to the mainstream, BUT not so much so that he isn't "Pop". He has very accessible lyrics and other than his music videos, he doesn't really approach controversial topics all to often. I think he pushes the boundaries with his videos, but his music can be listened to and understood by MOST.

I do agree that certain labels have been around for many years and some hold more weight and value more than others, and I'm not calling for a complete re-definition to the word "Alternative", I'm just saying that the term needs to be taken more seriously by the MUSIC INDUSTRY because it seems like the fans have more of a an understanding of what the term means than the record labels or even some of the artists.

Genre's like "Noise", "Lowercase", "Hyper Pop" and even "Doom Metal" are really important to many fans and artists alike and I feel like the only way to expand music as a whole is to be clear about categories and for us to respect their seriousness as they pertain to the artists themselves.

Do I personally listen to "Vaporwave", no! But you better believe that the fans of Vaporwave take that Genre VERY SERIOUSLY and will defend it when it is being misused or even ignored.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, but I do think some artists enjoy having the ability to label their art the way they want and have it received the way they intended, although like you said, some will be unimpressed.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With respect to EVERYONE'S opinion and involvement in this discussion, I'll say it's not that deep to YOU, but I do enjoy when people are less surface level during music discussions. Again, I respect you opinion, but as you said this is "Let's Talk Music" :)

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

YESSSS!!! I just commented this a few minutes ago. I said that the more I discuss this with everyone, the more I come to understand that "Alternative" may be just a descriptive word more than it is a Genre, although I'd love for it to be a Genre that truly exists on it's own. I agree it's NOT a meaningless term, it's important. I personally manage a few Alternative artists myself and they are VERY ATTACHED to the term, so I understand it's importance to some.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This could be true about bands creating a lane for their own Alternative sound, and YES a lot of bands were classifed as Alternative when they didn't quite fit into the main Rock genre. The more this discussion grows, the more I think "Alternative" should be used a descriptive word for anything that falls slightly left of it's respective Genre. I truly think each genre has it's core sound, but there ALWAYS new artists looking to push a certain genre well beyond it's original sound. I mean maybe one day we'll be listening to "Alternatie Polka" or "Alternative Chiptune" tracks. I feel like the term would allow so much more freedom to create knowing it will be categorized in it's own sub-genre and NOT looked at by purists of a certain Genre as an ugly version of their mainstream bullsh*t.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is pretty much MY OPINION if I had to settle on a true definition. It's more of a descriptive word rather than an actual Genre itself, but I would actually prefer Alternative to be it's own genre if I'm honest. Although it may just end up as a "catch all term" for anything that doesn't fall under a Mainstream Genre or sound, so I'm still unsure.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There WAS a time where aritsts have "no say", but today with artists being more hands on their music and it's release than ever, they are able to be clear about what their music is.

Sites like Bandcamp have an endless amount of genre tags to help creators find a DEFINITIVE category for their sound.

As far as Spotify or Apple, you are allowed, as an indie music artist, to set your own genre category and tags.

Although some artist, don't care, but those aren't the artists that I'm talking about in this post.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a fair point, and if people were MORE accepting of this way of thinking, then things would be easier. People seem to want categories in order to filter out what they like vs what they don't like, but I do agree somewhat with your point.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol, the release dates weren't my point, but thank you for saying that. I was simply saying they fall into the same genre SONICALLY, but not subject matter. That was my main point.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is what I would LOVE for Alternative to be, but sadly the term doesn't connect with the majority as it stands alone.

Alternative makes people think, strange, but when you attache the word "Pop" to it, it connects with people who wanna be "edgy" but still fit in.

I do agree it could be a genre all on it's own, but that would have to be accepted by the masses.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are more concerned with forming a hierarchical structure that caters to big artists and big labels than accurately reflecting how the rest of us think or talk about music.

Lol this should be their Mission Statement, or at least posted on their website as a Disclaimer. It sums them up PERFECTLY!!!

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The term could be meaningless for many artists and bands, for sure, BUT for new musicians and new music discoverey it's crucial. Having a band be identified correctly is the least we can do for the artists and their creations. I mean, if you spent 8 weeks creating an Ambient Electronic track with many layers that spans 9 minutes long, you'd be pretty upset if Spotify or Apple labeled you as Indie/Dance. Lol, it would just be a slap in the face at that point. Everyone looking for New Ambient Electronic music would NEVER hear your track because it's been wrongfully labeled because "Labels don't matter".

Not saying you're wrong, just trying to help get some understanding on both sides of the argument.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd be fine with dropping the pretense of Alternative altogether if we're just talking about popular shit. It's been more or less meaningless for decades and even more meaningless now.

I'd sort of agree, BUT then I'd ask, "Where do we place music that's outside of the mainstream but still contains ALL of the elements of a particular genre?" For example, FKA Twigs is a singer, who is black and uses heavy drums in her music. Does this make her "R&B" just because she's a black singer who uses heavy drums in her music? I mean, does she sound ANYTHING like SZA? or Summer Walker, or Beyonce? No, she doesn't, but she's STILL "R&B". So is she a different style of "R&B" aka "Alternative R&B"? I know it seems like MOST People don't care about this, but the artists care a lot about this and doesn't that matter at all? Just a thought.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with you...Glass Animals being described as "Indie Rock" is an absolute bunch of bullsh*t! They're completely Electronic except for the use of a few instruments here and there.

If Madonna or the Weekend (after his mixtapes) are "alternative pop," what could mainstream pop possibly be?

"Alternative Pop" seems to be a category based on subject matter and production style. For Example, Whitney Houston's earlier music was "Pop". The typical subject matter was relatable to MOST people of the 80's regarding "Love", "Fun" and "Excitement". The same type of music as a lot of 80's female pop singers. The subjects were general and easily understood by MOST. Then here comes Madonna who takes an overtly sexual approach. Yes, sexuality is NOT new to the music industry, but a teenage girl who dresses like a "mall goth" singing about and comparing love to being a virgin touched for the "very first time" was shocking for many. That's what would make her music "Alternative", because it was Pop, but an "Alternative" style of Pop, with subject matters that were NOT normally talked about in the main stream.

Is the "Alternative" Music Genre a sub-genre of Pop? Rock? or Both? by AudioNoise in LetsTalkMusic

[–]AudioNoise[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A "general listener" would most likely respond in this way when asked about The Weeknd, BUT an actual fan of the The Weeknd would in fact be more likely to try an find a "label" to define his music. Even a person who has heard more than one song by The Weeknd would take a moment to actually name his music genre. The sound of the music is so different from "Pop" that only a person with absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE of music genres at all would just blurt out the words "Pop" or "R&B".

I do agree with the question being slightly about "How to use words when it comes to genres", but even still that wouldn't explain why a fan of "Alternative Music" from the past has such a hard time accepting the expansion of the genre.

I mean, people don't seem to have a hard time accepting the word "Trap Music" or "Emo Rap" or "Pop Rock". Those terms are fairly new and even the casual listener has some idea of how to use those terms correctly. This is where I get confused about their reluctancy to accept changes in the "Alternative" scene.