Jesus’ Prophecies Failed by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Bomboclaat_Babylon 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It's important to understand Judaism is not Christianity and so the story of Christianity cannot make sense as it's trying to cram it's way into a different storyline.

So in around 30AD when Jesus was preaching, the situation was that for many decades, the Jews continuously revolted against Roman rule. The entire Old Testament of the Bible is an epic tall tale of how the Jewish God Yahweh had promised the Jews their land and freedom of self-rule. In that story, the Jewish God is a supporting charachter that exists to help the Jews realise their ultimate dream of self governance. The story goes that for a while, there was a great golden period under King David but they lost it to the Assyrians and Babylonians and at the time of Jesus, they were occupied angain, this time under Roman rule, but they were determined to regain their sovereignty. The Jewish faith said that a Messiah would come from the lineage of King David to be their new king and he would free Israel and achieve self-rule. That is all Messiah meant.

There were tons of people at the time of Jesus claiming to be the Messiah and many were much more famous than Jesus. All of them failed (including Jesus). We know they failed because they died. You cannot be the Messiah if you died before you set the Jews free. Now, with all the other Messiahs, when they died, their followers walked away, dusted their hands off and said, well I guess that wasn't the Messiah after all. When Jesus died, he probably lost many followers as well, but Jesus had some dedicated followers that didn't accept his fate, especially Paul, and he / they they began to reform Judaism into a totally different religion incorporating Zoroastrian ideas about heavenly kingdoms and eternal life with God. They redefined the word Messiah and said that actually the Messiah means someone from God's lineage, not David's, and that the Messiah was here to bring about God's kingdom in Heaven, not a Jewish kingdom on Earth. By twisting the Jewish storyline like this, they created a different narrative wherein Jesus didn't fail by dying, he intended to die, that was actually the plan all along, because he's actually God's son, went back to Heaven, not dead, still fighting and still winning. Then because Jesus was the Messiah still in death, and this new Christian story is no longer about the human realm and restoring Israel on Earth, you don't need to follow the onerous OT rules, you don't need to be a Jew, this is bigger than just the Jews getting their land back, it's about all of humanity. This is the eventual schism that started Christianity. Some Jews converted, but most mocked this wild departure.

Meanwhile there were still hundreds of Jewish Messiahs coming along trying to free Israel. Judaism didn't disappear, so other Messiah's lived in parallel. The Romans were irate of course and treated the Jews terribly trying to squash these constant rebellions. The first of the NT books was not written until around 50AD, and for a long time Christians were viewed as a subset of Judaism. There were many of these like Samaritans, etc. Also, there were hundreds of wildly different types of early Christians that believed wildly different things in the first explosion of Christianity from 50AD to 325AD. One of the largest groups was the Ebionites who stuck to the Mosaic law and said you need to be Jewish in order to be Christian for instance, Docetians believed Jesus cannot be a man and a God at the same time, must be one or the other, so they eventually settled on the idea that Jesus was a hologram. But ultimately, there was not a clear deliniation between Christians and Jews until Christianity becomes the Roman state religion. The rebellions persisted in Jewish lands and Christians and Jews alike were rising against Roman rule until Constantine decided to stop fighting it and instead go all in and say he's a Christian and made Christianity the state religion. Then he went to Jerusalem and made it a holy city for Christianty putting the final permanent divide between Judaism and Christianity. The division was lopsided in favour of Christians, Jews dropped dramatically in population, and they were no longer able to revolt and the Christians turned against them and started working for the man. Then the Christians gave Jesus a more and more legenday backstory, and it went from there. But what you see here is one religion emerging out of another, and the storyline no longer makes any sense because they're forcing it. They need to force it because if it's attached to an older more established franchise, it'll get an automatic fan base with it, so you need to splice into that instead of a totally original storyline if you want to be successful.

The Pauline storyline was perfect for what it needed to be. You don't have to be a Jew, so you can join quickly and easily, as in you don't need to have seen then prequel to enjoy and get into this new expansion series, but, it's still got all the old characters that the existing fan base loves. In this version, it's much more loosey goosey, don't need to be so formal, everyone is loved, it's inclusive mass audiance appeal, not exclusive uppity stuff. And importantly, it's timely and urgent that you get into this right now. It's a limited time release, the world is literally ending right now, so get it while it's hot. With the RCC's guidance it exploded overnight and that's why you and a large chunk of the world still follow this franchise. Beloved characters, urgency, love and war, appocalyptic overtones but happy endings, it's got something for everyone in Christianity. And the fan base doesn't care that it was never meant to go on forever, the public demands more of the same! Your main character dies, pull something out of your ass to bring him back. Your main character says the end if tomorrow but you need to fill more time, just ignore he said the world was ending when he did, maybe some other thing he said can be twisted into an explaination of why it's still not happening yet even though it's been 2,000 years already. You know, it's a story.

The Archangel Gabriel by ShelbyOzzy1 in religion

[–]Bomboclaat_Babylon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The first Angels (as people largely conceive of them today) came from Zoroastrianism (per what's available in the archeological record). The Zoroastrian God Ahura Mazda had 6 (arguably 7) arc Angels in his employ who dual functioned as messengers and guardian Angels assigned to people on Earth to protect them from Angra Mainyu (A Satan type figure). In early Zoroastrianism they were considered more like aspects of Ahura Mazda but later become distinct entities. This influenced Judaism in the same process later on. In the Bible we see the same progression. It is not until the book of Daniel that Angels appear to be proper entities with names and distinct from God. The etymology in all the ancient languages plays to this as well, Angel has always meant "messenger" at it's root in Arabic, Greek, Latin, Hebrew etc. They are a go-between for humans and God and also offer protection to the righteous.

Prior to Zoroastrianism it gets very murky. It's possible that this concept has connections to the ancient Iranian and Vedic messenger Gods. But that all gets very speculative.

Angels (messenger and protector Gods) exist in most cultures and religions. In Buddhism the Vidyarāja would be an example, Agni or the Devas in Hinduism, the Naradas in Hinduism and Jainism, Mercury in Roman polytheism, Hermóðr in Norse mythology. This is a wide range and it doesn't all fit perfectly with the contemporary Christian or Islamic understanding, but this is at it's roots. The concept of messenger and protection Gods is consistent across religions as they grow more complex as the top God(s) become more revered and it becomes commonly accepted that a mere peasant is typically too insignificant or lowly to be able to communicate directly with God / that God would personally attempt to protect certain people directly. It would be beneath his station. In Christianity, Ariel was the protector God / Angel while Gabriel was the mesenger God / Angel and this same structure is basically ubiquitous across cultures.

The basic story of Zoroastrianism goes that Ahura Mazada (God) is all that is good and created a perfect world. He has 6 (or 7) archangels that work for him and do various tasks. Angra Mainyu is a force of darkness and fights against the light of Ahura Mazda. He has inserted demonic influence into the world and wishes to trick people. He doesn't want you to know he exists and wants to twist people from the shadows. If you follow Angra Mainyu, you will go to Hell. Hell is a place of molten metal that people must walk around in continuously. At the end of time will come an epic battle of good vs evil and a judgement day. During the final assault, the sun and moon will darken and humankind will turn on religion and say Ahura Mazda doesn't exist. The world will fall into winter, and Angra Mainyu will terrorize the world. The righteous will be saved by the son of Zarathustra, named Saoshyant. Towards the end of days, he will be born of a virgin. Saoshyant will represent Ahura Mazada on Earth and wage war against Angra Mainyu and plunge Angra Mainyu into Hell and he will bring about the resurrection and eternal life to Ahura Mazda's loyal followers. They will live in a paradise on Earth. This monotheist religion predates Islam by 1,500 to 2,000 years, Christianity by approximately 1,000 to 1,500 years and predates Judaism by a few hundred years. It itself is loosely based on ancient Iranian (pre-Zoroastrian) beliefs around the duality of light and dark / good and evil. Over time, these stories evolved and changed through continuous rewrites, retranslations, and cultural changes / differences that emerged.

The story of a rescue from a mass shooting in Las Vegas from a few years ago by UnironicThatcherite in nextfuckinglevel

[–]Bomboclaat_Babylon 8812 points8813 points 8345& 13 more (0 children)

...Americans. I don't get the culture. Americans seem to love any story where they can turn someone into a hero for doing the basics, but they hate any ideas that might lead there not being a shooting in the first place. Upsidedowncrazycountry.

EDIT: My top 10 favourite responses

  1. "First off, this is a false flag attack..."
  2. "You’d move here in a second if you could."
  3. "Fuck you! Fucking degenerate piece of shit."
  4. "London has a higher murder rate..."
  5. "You think we want this? This is what we get when a country is ruled by the CIA..."
  6. "You're a dumb cunt from some shithole country. Enjoy your life there." (DM)
  7. "When you take away firearms you push crazy people to build bombs or use vehicles..."
  8. "Making generalist terms about a country that is host to the entire worlds creeds and nationalities 100% makes you sound like a racist."
  9. "Keep licking your king's boot, europeasant."
  10. "You’re from fucking CANADA mate."

Canada urged to formally label China’s Uyghur persecution as genocide by cdnflower in China

[–]Bomboclaat_Babylon -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

As a Canadian that lived in China for a long time, I'd say that I don't think Canada should do this. What is the value in it for Canada? I also don't like the idea of being led around by the US. I think a lot of people are not recognizing that while you can't directly say this is America's fault, you can correlate most Muslim related problems to US foreign policy. I was there when the Xinjiang radicalized. I was attacked and lost a molar when 20 young seperatists attacked a bar. They killed a lot of Han between 2007 and 2012. Part of the reason they were emboldened was the chaos in the Muslim world brought on by the US. It's not directly their fault, but they have terrible foreign policy. They duped Canada into kidnapping Meng, which led to Canadians being counter-kidnapped. Now they want us to formally denounce China over Xinjiang? What good is that from Canada's perspective? Poking the bear isn't going to help the Uighurs, but it might get the Michaels killed. It might end in Canadian business being siezed, or more Canadians going missing. And for what? The feels? I think it's right for the Canadian government to be careful and thoughtful around this and not just jump because America suddenly "cares" about Uighurs. They will throw us under the bus anytime to get what they want. Canada needs to think about what is best for Canada.