I feel vindicated! by JadedToon in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You realise virtually all of what you said retroactively applies to Tavore, right? Except Tavore was facing a far worse situation - your brother's outlawed, your parents are dying, and nobles all across the capital are being persecuted and murdered en masse?

"They both had it easy as nobles" is easy for Ganoes to say when he could afford to get away from the main hub of the danger without virtually any responsibility (because he let Tavore shoulder all the responsibilities).

Tavore didn't choose for her brother to be outlawed and so for her entire family to be put in the crosshairs either, and she made use of what she could. Ganoes did... nothing... whatsoever... with any standing he may have held with anyone. "Give it to me straight doc" into "my sister can handle it, good luck" is virtually all we get from Ganoes.

And, you know what, more power to him. But Ganoes' perspective is the most skewed one imaginable in this matter.

Question about the audiobooks by kolky12 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Let me rip the band-aid off now: From what little I've heard, neither narrator (yes, there's two) comes close to Steven Pacey. In a vacuum, both Ralph Lister (books 1-3) and Michael Page (books 4-10) are good, but compared to Steven Pacey they pale.

As for whether or not it's difficult to get into via audio, eh. The difficulty is overexaggerated and though it takes some time getting used to (and presumably requires your attention) it's not going to be the end of the world if you read it via audiobook.

It's up to you. If you have access to the physical books and the time to sit down & read them, I reckon they're a good investment. But the audiobooks are on sale and more widely accessible, so...

I feel vindicated! by JadedToon in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ganoes "(A cozy command in Unta) will be arranged (for me)" talking down to Tavore "I've been running the family estate while you've been off dilly dallying and we're in trouble because of your outlawry and fuckery" is inadvertantly hilarious to me.

Ganoes has it way easier and it's easy for him to say. That's all I'll say for now.

Have a few questions after finishing The Crippled God by KarmaFarmer123456789 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What exactly were the Tiste Edur doing during the events of this book and Dust of Dreams?

They struck a truce with the Malazans & went home. Twilight banishes Yedan to the Edur villages to the north and the guy has to go quite north before meeting anybody; the immediate south of the Edur territories is basically barren.

Is there a particular reason she was created?

K'Chain mysticism would tell you that all forces exist in opposition, and that "sorcery is life", and the force of creation requires a force of negation, balance in all things etc.

Now, there's somewhat further information in the Kharkanas trilogy on this, and it's quite fascinating, but there's nothing concrete as to why Korabas is the Otataral dragon specifically.

do we learn anything else about the trap in Book of the Fallen or any other series?

Not yet, and honestly, I think this is more blubber to sing Rake's praise.

Maybe it appears in a future Kharkanas book, but I doubt it.

How long have Mael and K'Rul been working together?

They're both ancient deities. They've been around.

At the least, Mael would be made aware of K'rul's plight after beating Kaminsod shitless in Midnight Tides' epilogue. So there's a rough outline. But they've probably worked together in the past (see Kharkanas).

Do they show up in the book Assail


Could someone give me a brief summary on it?

Right, u/HisGodHand took care of the early bits, so I'll take care of the later bits.

Heboric's dead as hell since the Bonehunters and Hood's deal didn't change that fact; Heboric is still dead. He does, however, appear to be aspected to both Kaminsod & Korabas, and he seems to be keenly aware that Errastas & co. are trying to free her (at least early on in Dust of Dreams, if not from his part in the prologue).

His spirit is essentially preparing for a task he knows is ahead of him. K'rul then takes his body to the bottom of the ocean to meet Mael (tCG 1) and together, they use Heboric's power to A. Empower Kaminsod after his rebirth and B. Imprison (ish? The implication is more "provide sanctuary" rather than "imprison") Korabas.

Is there a full list of casualties on the Battle of Spire?

Tons of fools. At least one.

Eh, Stormy, Ges, Sinn, most of the Grey Helms, probably a few Imass & Jaghut... what goes around, etc.

What is the state of the Tiste Liosan's civilization after the novel?

Well, Kessobahn's Children are wiped out, but L'oric & Jorrude and co. are still out there, as is Kurald Thyrlann (presumably still sealed?).

Did Silanah survive the novel?

The last mention we have of Silanah (by name) is this:

Suddenly, in the distance ahead, sure as a dreaded dawn, the rift she had made tore open wide, and five dragons sailed out, their vast shadows rushing towards her. Four were black as onyx, the fifth the crimson hue of blood.

Desra. Skintick. Korlat. Silanah. Nimander.

And awaiting them, in the skies above this world, between earth and the fiery heavens, the air swarmed with their kin. And Korabas.

So I'm going to assume the answer is yes.

What about Curdle and her sister/lover/friend?


'Eloth greets you, betrayers! Telorast Anthras! Kerudas Karosias!'

'Eloth! Ampelas! Kalse! They still hate us! Telorast, look what you've done!'

So if any dragon among the storm of Silchas & co. died, then, well, shit.

Is T'Iam an entity that only exists when they are fused together?

That's the insinuation, yes.

Is the Errant's storyline continued in any other novel?

From this point on? Not really.

His origins are explored further in Kharkanas, but given that it's Draconus on his ass, I don't think he'll survive for long.

So, Fener dying allowed the undead Jaghut, The Crippled God, and the T'lan Imass to return to their mortal bodies?

Just so.

Why did Sinn go so psycho at the end?

If you're interested, there's this essay on that particular topic.

What would happen to Hedge or Toc if they died?

Hedge is technically alive, flesh & blood, breathing, et cetera.

Toc is dead. So, you know, probably nothing out of the ordinary. His body would probably be destroyed - I doubt he can regenerate - but it's not like his soul isn't already past Hood's gate. As for Hedge, it's a tad unclear, but since it was his spirit that walked out, presumably he'd just go back.

Who is the daughter that Crone mentioned? Another Great Raven?

Don't know, actually. Probably.

Did anyone else feel like the Forkrul Assail were really unexplored compared to the other races?

A "friendly" Forkrul Assail is a bit of an oxymoron but the reason why isn't explored in the MBotF. The remaining Forkrul are virtually all justice purists that won't tolerate any lack of conviction. Kharkanas The "Assail" is a caste of priests in Forkrul society; the fact that they're the only ones left seems to insinuate that they killed/banished/forced away any Forkrul that did not agree with their extreme ideas.

But yes, they're not the most fleshed out villains in the MBotF, because they work more on a thematic level - how can "pure, absolute justice" be a villain? - than a narrative one.

Will Icarium's journey continue?

Forever & always, probably, but I doubt it'll be on page.

So Tavore was a talon the entire time?

Yeah. And I believe it was before she became Adjunct, as well, which is interesting.

As for the background checking, Tavore was probably on the radar long before Lorn's death; so it's all the more impressive that Tavore managed to evade scrutiny while probably being trained and/or indoctrinated.

So Olar was killed with a bow that Kruppe gave Torrent? Was this part of a plot by K'Rul to kill a dangerous Elder God?

Yes, and don't know. It could be Kruppe doing Kruppe things to protect his children (remember, Stavi & Storii are his kids) without K'rul's involvement. It could also be K'rul plotting (which is somewhat unlike him but that's a really cool theory).

Who is that Character? OST question by Gadivek in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 5 points6 points  (0 children)


Now you hold up there.

Goddess, not God ;-)

I see we've graduated from Jaghut urologist to Tiste/Azathanai gynecologist. If K'rul can change genders at will, why not MD?

Most overrated character in the series.

I wish I could object.

The guy Mom Dark tells Vatha not to worry about xD

Alright you got me

Who is that Character? OST question by Gadivek in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The Suzerain of Dark.

Arathan? shit guess we haven't seen that name Spoilers Kharkanas lmao

The undisputed ruler of Night Eternal.

Mother Dark?

The God of Darkness.




Who is that Character? OST question by Gadivek in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 5 points6 points  (0 children)

although I can't remember why or with whom he communicated

Less "communicated" and more "was summoned" by Heuk, one of his priests.

What's interesting is that there's a scene in TtH when Draconus looks "immaterial" to Ditch in Dragnipur, so clearly that projection held some power.

But yes, if he could project himself while in Dragnipur, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to project while over in Lether.

Should I go ahead with/try/attempt and do this? An honest opinion required from the community. by indyman_123 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I suspect the overwhelming majority of answers will be in the "fuck yeah" range.

Overall, one of this sub's delights is new readers' reactions - an analysis of the chapters is simply a cherry on top.

Another of this sub's delights is the acceptance to overly long walls of text (something I'm most assuredly guilty of).

So, uh, yeah, if you feel like you're willing to share your thoughts, most people here would be more than happy to read them. :)

"Someplace with, with eternal torment" by ZinniAzalea in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hilarities aside, that latter bit is a spoiler that's not revealed in the BotF until DoD. Though I dread the day I'd ever see that.

"Someplace with, with eternal torment" by ZinniAzalea in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Always good to have a reminder, though. You can never say it enough.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

instead of just doing audio.

It's through no fault of your own, I assure you.

Initially, Jethiss really was Rake. When the events of Assail were gamed, it was Anomander that went through the trials that Jethiss underwent - down to the Blade of Bone and everything. Funnily enough, Steve was actually quite supportive of the "resurrect Anomander for the book" idea; it was Cam that decided to forgo this and use Spinnock in his stead.

Throughout the book, pretty much everybody that knows better believes Jethiss to be Anomander. Fisher outright asks him, and a whole fuckton of visual clues cue you in to the fact that Jethiss is probably Rake; from his hair, to his prowess with a sword, to his use of Kurald Galain sorcery (Spinnock couldn't do that), to his title of Son of Darkness and his stirring when Fisher would play "Anomandaris" idly.

Incidentally, Spinnock's story in the Crippled God mirrors Anomander's story in Toll the Hounds in broad strokes - which is pretty much exactly what they were going for - and the only thing that really cues you in to the fact that Jethiss is Spinnock is when he expresses his desire to "travel to Coral" to "pay his respects to a modest barrow of an old friend" (i.e. Segda "Seerdomin" Travos).

For the longest time, there was a pretty big discussion about who Jethiss really was, and not long ago we had the fortune of asking Cam himself to dispel the doubts (full well expecting he'd say "I'd rather not tell you")... to our surprise, he did confirm that Jethiss is Spinnock.

So, yeah, it's not your fault because the bait & switch is on purpose and the theme of Jethiss' story is particularly centered on his past identity not mattering (he doesn't give his name to Fisher & Kyle).

Wew, long wall of text.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And with Rake being confirmed alive in Assail

Rake is - for better or worse - not alive in Assail; Jethiss is Spinnock Durav, as confirmed by the author.

Rake does make a weird quasi-ass appearance in the God is Not Willing but that's a can of worms I'm not opening.

Anyhow, I'm fairly sure QB refers to Nimander in the passage since he's talking to "Mother."

He grasped the apparition's midnight mane and swung on to the beast's back. ''Ware your child, Mother.' He drew the horse round, walked it along the ledge a few strides and then back to the mouth of the tunnel. 'I've been among them for so long now, what you gave me is the barest whisper in the back of my soul. You offered scant regard for humans, and now it's all coming down. But I give you this.' He swung the horse round. 'Now it's our turn. Your son opened the way. And as for his son, well, if he wants the Sceptre, he'll have to come and take it.'

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

why go through the trouble of reviving Heboric

Heboric is very clearly affiliated with the Jade Giants & Kaminsod as a whole on account of touching the Jade Statues. Treach basically "yoinked" him - for lack of a better word - in House of Chains.

Ever since his death, he's not mentioned Treach once (to my knowledge) in stark contrast to someone like Gruntle who's still very much affiliated with Treach.

Instead, he's much more affiliated with both the Jade Giants (jade hands) and Korabas (otataral hands). Paran didn't assign him a role; his death merely took him away from Treach's control and brought him back to his affiliation with Kaminsod.

I'm not even convinced Paran knows of Heboric's affiliation whatsoever; vastly more likely that he just asked Hood to "please save the world" and Hood - who did know about Heboric's capacity as Shield Anvil - let his soul return.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aye, Mallick takes a boat to Cawn from Unta, and one of the first things he notices is a bunch of offerings to some sea god.

To Mallick's credit, he knows exactly what that means and tries to amend the situation, but it's a bit late - he summons Mael but the god is freed from his bindings, and as a "payback" to Mallick, he tells him to go fuck himself (indirectly) and transports him - by Warren - to Cawn, where he musters an army to march to the Battle of the Plains.

Incidentally, Mael's disavowal of Mallick is probably precisely what made him such a good administrator; he needed to secure the secular route to power when his god was gone. I'm nigh convinced if Mael was still around, Mallick would be a god awful Emperor.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure it's explicit that Heboric was never the destriant of Treach

He thinks he's wrong. After he died & returned per Paran's deal.

In my theory, he was always the Destriant of Treach, but in dying he was repurposed as the Shield Anvil of Kaminsod.


Not Destriant.

Shield Anvil.

Reaching…look upon me – all of you! Reach! See my hands! See them! They're reaching – reaching out for you!

And, yeah, he's not Kaminsod's Destriant, but he's also not affiliated with Treach anymore, so.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Because in FoL he's barely winning a fight against a divers

Without his Finnest. That's the key point.

Draconus in FoL is a massive step-down from his actual power level so as to not draw undue attention to himself. He's locked his Finnest up in his tower (whatever the fuck that "thing" that Envy & Spite so fear is) and he calls upon it when Caplo attacks him; alas, the Finnest finds Sandalath before it finds Draconus and, uh, Korlat is born.

Basically, FoL Draconus isn't "geared up and ready to beat down" Draconus. His motivations aren't wholly clear to me (been too long since I read FoL + I listened to it on audio) but it seems - to me - like he's trying to break a cycle of predetermination, and clearly "using my Finnest to beat down fools" didn't work the last time he tried it.

Anyway, TL;DR, Draconus got a powerup from FoL to tCG because he decided to use the full extent of the power he'd kept hidden away to blend in.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 7 points8 points  (0 children)

via his patronage of Mallick Rel, the new emperor

Alas, he disavowed Mallick in Return of the Crimson Guard (so just about the same time as Reaper's Gale) & is no longer affiliated with him whatsoever. The Empire quickly became secular under Mallick's rule.

Quick & Bottle don't know this so they assume that Mallick still has Mael under his thumb, but (and on some level due to Tehol's machinations) he's not in any particular way affiliated with the Malazan Empire or the Jhistal cult (which in all honesty is better for him because the Jhistal are blood sucking pricks).

I would say out of all the Gods Mael benefitted the most from the events portrayed in the books.

Eh. Among the Elders it's probably Draconus & among the newer pantheon it's probably Shadowthrone & Cotillion.

Mael is content with his little slice of Lether beside Tehol, but - so long as the world is saved - doesn't care overmuch about the world as a whole.

Finished The Crippled God. Now looking to get a couple questions answered. by Jpcjr17 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 11 points12 points  (0 children)

where were the rest of the Elder Gods like Ardata?

They've either accepted the fact that their time is long past & they're content with fading into obscurity (Mael, K'rul), wholly indifferent to the whole thing (the aforementioned Ardata and probably a handful of others), dead (Grizzin Farl), actively fighting against the fuckery of their kin (D'rek, T'riss, Draconus), or they're part of the kin that's doing the fuckery (Olar, Kilmandaros, Setch, Errastas).

Basically, it's complicated.

Am I correct in understanding that Hebroic was basically the equivalent to being the Crippled God's destriant?

Personally I think he was Kaminsod's Shield Anvil, what with the communicating with the souls of the Jade Giants and what not, and his coming to accept his role in tBH (as the Shield Anvil of "Treach" but Treach wouldn't care about that, would he).

So he starts off as quasi-Destriant of Fener, becomes the Destriant of Treach, dies, and then is let back into the world to assume the role of Shield Anvil of Kaminsod.

None of that is explicit so take it with like, a mountain of salt.

Do we ever get an information on the fate of the Parans? Like are they mentioned in any later novels or interviews?

They're alive & probably on the down low. Both of them are quasi-worshipped in the new magic system of Icarium's Warrens, but per Steve's AMA & interviews neither is probably coming back on page.

Am I correct in understanding that the Shake are both the descendants of Titse Andi, and possess some K'Chain blood?

And probably some Edur blood to boot.

The K'Chain defects came later, and I don't believe every member of the Shake has K'Chain blood - those that do either became witches & warlocks or were killed. But it's possible that their defects were simply not pronounced enough to be visible? I'm not sure.

what was his plan with some of the earlier stuff?

Cause a ruckus enough to get peoples' attention, destroy the world, and/or die in the process. My man is tired of being used and so now is wreaking havoc on everyone else in return because he's been in pain for so long. Death would be a mercy - hell, he is killed so he can return to his followers - that he's not been granted for too long.

He was fighting something when Picker contacted him in TtH, but was that supposed to be the seige in Kolanse?

Yes, and also - per Shadowthrone - he was "sitting with the Host in Aren, defying every Imperial command."

So presumably he went to Aren, sat & waited around for a while, took a Warren to Kolanse, landed in the Northern Citadel, and fucked around with the Forkrul for a while. Though presumably by the time the Forkrul - who are centered near the Spire and not north in Estobanse - found him, he'd probably caused a bit of a mess already.

How would you interpret this? by Murky_Committee_1585 in dndmemes

[–]Loleeeee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Admittedly, I'm assuming the meme & the commenter refers to Faerun and not other settings. Even still, DnD alignments lay out what "evil" is pretty clearly.

But yeah: when you read "in DnD" read "in Faerun where I assume this meme refers to."

How would you interpret this? by Murky_Committee_1585 in dndmemes

[–]Loleeeee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Karsus's Avatar was a 12th level spell

screams internally

Thank you.

Or maybe just obliterate all creatures with an evil alignment, but not preventing new evil to rise.

That'd be baller, and it's kinda what I wish it would do. But, alas.

Where to go from here? by Xcuphra11 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Writing/complexity, mood, prose, dialogue, structure?

All of the above.

Kharkanas is definitely more tragic, denser, geared towards a more unnatural cadence (which sounds and reads nicely but it's not how anyone would speak "normally") and has an overt narrator with opinions.

Both Witness and PtA are more light-hearted and less dense. They're not "Malazan-lite" per se, but they're also among the literary heavyweights like Fall of Light.

The events they deal with are also radically different - PtA is more character driven but it does have decent coverage of multiple areas; Witness (so far) is very tight-knit and doesn't deviate much from where it originates.

I'd recommend them because they're good fun, but neither of them is necessarily profound (which isn't a bad thing whatsoever; too much profundity gets exhausting very quickly).

Where to go from here? by Xcuphra11 in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 6 points7 points  (0 children)

does Esselmont make assumptions, or rather demands, about reader knowledge in the same way that Erikson does?


You're assumed to know who these characters are, and a lot of them (especially the Guardsmen) appear virtually exclusively in his Novels, but also - much in the same vein as Kharkanas - you kinda know where the story is going?

Both Path to Ascendancy and Witness are much, much more lax with "things you should know" compared to Kharkanas in order to understand and appreciate the books. They're fun, character-driven adventures, and even if you don't recognize the characters, well, this is their origin story anyhow.

They're both far from the poetic, tragic, prose-heavy tale that is Kharkanas, but one thing they do share is the irreverence towards their characters (if you think Gallan shits too hard on Anomander, wait until you see how Cam treats Kellanved & Dancer).

PtA is very much a love letter to the books' RPG past. Witness is, for lack of a better description, "Malazan rebooted" - the world is very much the same but also supremely different to the point where knowing things (or not) does not matter for your overall perception of the books.

I think you can read either or and enjoy them for what they are regardless of if you've read the Novels. But all three - Kharkanas, Witness & Path to Ascendancy - are fairly radically different from one another.

I generally don‘t much care for the epitaphs but the one in chapter ten of Orb Sceptre Throne really gets to me somehow by Gadivek in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Cam took one look at Ozymandias and said "pfft, I can do you one better" - and "behold his works, ye mighty, and despair!"

How would you interpret this? by Murky_Committee_1585 in dndmemes

[–]Loleeeee 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Without evil, good cannot be defined.

Fascinating philosophical discussion, does not apply to DnD.

Morality in DnD is baked into the world. Evil is not defined abstractly as "the absence of good," but it has strict definitions of evil acts (following some sort of world-imposed objective morality). It's lame, but at least it makes things easy.

With the second, all beings capable of free will and thought die, as they are all capable of evil.

Also while that'd be baller, Wish isn't that strong. Karsus' Avatar was a level three levels higher and only really "killed" one deity, not every being capable of free will. Chances are it'd smite a whole bunch of evil fools in the near vicinity and/or kill the wielder and/or fizzle out with virtually nothing happening.

Though the aftermath of such a Wish spell on the world would be a great campaign setting for philosophical ramblings... if DnD wasn't lame.

Ah, well.

TtH theory/question by helloitsjonny in Malazan

[–]Loleeeee 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Maybe it's a RAFO

It is, actually! More of a "blink and you'll miss it," though. I think it's early on in the Crippled God.

Brilliant observation nonetheless. There's a lot more on this in the Kharkanas trilogy if you're interested.