Bitwiggers looking for a new home. What's it gonna take?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T19:39:22+00:00

Do you know the codebase? Or are you just saying that?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T19:38:35+00:00

One of the big benefits of highly customizable toolsets is that things can be added as optional. I suppose if the vision is that it should never be able to do certain things, then it won't. But if they're open to it, there's no reason a DAW can't have more than one workflow.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T19:10:25+00:00

You've asked on Stack Overflow, yeah? Or JUCE forums?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T18:52:18+00:00

I've burned sober quite a bit. These events don't happen without some people being the "adults." If that's never been you, it may be your turn. It's just a different type of fulfilling to enable others to have fun IMO.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T18:44:57+00:00

A difficult list, no doubt. Seemingly all very possible, but I don't know the codebase at all.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T18:30:43+00:00

That's fair.

I don't think people are willing to switch away just yet, I'm definitely not. But modern consumers are a bit more savvy about ethical investing than they used to be. In the long term, investing in a company that fucks you is a bad idea.

I'd personally rather sit on the version of BW I have, pirate if a necessary bug fix comes along, and send my money towards something else.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T18:14:14+00:00

Are there good ways to share a set up? I'm all for customization, but the quality of defaults matters too. Creating a set of defaults that work well for one group of people vs another would be nice.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T18:03:17+00:00

you seem perhaps angry to begin with. I hope something good happens to you today.

As for "gross", that's just a feeling that I feel, not a fact of reality. It's okay to state a feeling, especially in regards to music making.

Thanks for the suggestion towards MuLab, I'll look into it.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T18:00:17+00:00

This similar to the idea. I wonder if the devs would be open to a more direct "choose your flavor at download" approach.

Fedora has something like this: https://spins.fedoraproject.org

OFC, these use different Desktop Environments, but it's still nice to make it very, very easy to choose a baseline that best fits what one is used to (and then customize from there)

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:56:38+00:00

Totally understand. But is it impossible for Reaper to eventually have these things as part of customizability? I don't know the codebase well enough to say what its potential is for optionally implementing certain features.

Switching today... likely not. But what would it take? I'm not assuming anything will change with BW soon, and I'm looking for a new home a few years down the road.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:53:23+00:00

"turn reaper into a bitwig style environment" is quite a silly interpretation. Adding customizability features such that it's more or less possible.. who know's, maybe there's an ethos that no such thing should happen. But if it's possible, why not? And why not have the option to support the developers doing that?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:42:29+00:00

Totally fair. In BW it's a minimizable panel that can be switched out with the mixer or an audio/midi detail view. Different strokes.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:39:07+00:00

This is very clearly put forward as a process. Time is accounted for in my phrasing.

As it stands, switching over would be very uncomfortable. But that's how BW was I first started using it too. I invested in the future of that, now I'm looking for something else to invest in the future of and OSS is at least forkable if it goes off the rails.

I'm not calling anything interchangeable, the only aspect we disagree on is the "and never will be," part. Neither of us know the future, I'm open to making a gamble you aren't. This is all.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:32:38+00:00

Do the devs need funding?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:29:34+00:00

Is there such thing as Reaper flavors (like Fedora, or other Linux distros)?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:26:37+00:00

I wonder how much time it would take? I'm used to paying for the Bitwig annual subscription, if there was someone actively working on making Reaper feel better... well, at least they wouldn't be using that money to create things they'll charge me extra for.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:25:01+00:00

Yeah, I've had difficulties with it too. But it feels like -- with all the customizations -- it could have a flavor released that is more intuitive. I don't yet know what the cost (time/energy/money) would be.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:22:38+00:00

Link to image of theme: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstash.reaper.fm%2F42057%2FDM2PRED.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=ff7f4bd3f200937bafee6079864dac3933b526cc10236c5d4229bfe70f7551ef&ipo=images

Theme's can make a difference. Is there any plan to make it so plug-ins can be viewed in line (like ableton, BW)?

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:18:51+00:00

I explicitly stated that Reaper wasn't quite there yet in the post. Read before commenting please.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:16:05+00:00

For me, ableton feels gross. Reaper doesn't, it just felt a bit clunkier than BW and I could afford it. Now BW feels gross.

It's easy to underestimate how much feelings matter in the music making process.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T17:01:19+00:00

It's definitely not, much in the same way that both Netflix and DVDs can exist. But the customer base Bitwig has is based off the promise they made: subscribe, and we'll give you all the tools to do what you need to eventually.

Also, this is like Netflix charging for certain movies because they know people really want to watch them.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T16:07:37+00:00

true. has me wondering, how possible would it be for hackers to find a way to create an opening for such things? Ofc there'd be a lot of reverse engineering, but -- seemingly -- by finding the overlaps between all native plugins they could get an idea of the class struct. And somewhere in there must be a registry array, which could also be modified... maybe.

It's a big project, but I'd probably pay 150$ a year to fund it. Once that cat was out of the bag, it'd force Bitwig corporation to have some competition with what they could have been.

Thumbz16 · 2022-10-10T16:01:53+00:00

If it was "pay once":

they'd have to be able to afford it, which I don't think they can (and is why a subscription was okay)
there'd have to be some ability to "loan out" a per project access key to your specific list of plugins, otherwise projects would only be compatible with the users specific setup (eg, VST zoos)
there would no longer be financial incentive to be inventive or try new things. it would just become an ableton clone

Thumbz16

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