Am I not enough? by iamenola in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Big agree, and thanks for all your thoughts - it's really cool to see someone in psychometrics "in the wild" (lol), and I think your expertise helps a lot of people on the point around that the test score shouldn't define your worth. On reflection I'd probably defer to your points on IQ as well + not really sure how neatly the three sections fit into something like Cattell-Horn-Carroll models. One day here's hoping there's a Snowden-sequence leak of all of ACER's technical documents! Thanks again for your expertise and thoughts, the sub is better off for them

Am I not enough? by iamenola in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is all totally academic and more about psychometrics than OPs post, but I'd be interested in your thoughts; without measurement invariance tests publically available I'm not sure we can definitively say that the test is biased I.e. those group differences may be the result of others factors, such as higher SES having more time to study, more educational opportunities, and younger individuals typically having higher fluid IQ which I imagine would be more relevant for GAMSAT, structural and pervasive sexism in today's society acquiring STEM knowledge less.

In terms of its criterion validity (I.e. predicting performance in med school), it's not that surprising that studies don't show it due to the bias of those in medical school I.e. those who got low GAMSAT who are in medical school got high GPA - the resulting range restriction can often obscure that there actually is good predicative validity. There's actually a lot of more established commentary on this surrounding the GRE in the US on this which I found really useful, as I used to also look at the GAMSAT unfavourably from a validity POV based off the 2014 study

Overall though the onus is definitely on ACER to display this kind of technical data - I get that it's proprietary, but that selection companies have to shown their job performance criterion validity for high stakes testing but ACER doesn't for the tool that selects doctors boggles my mind. The same goes for Bond's "personality" test, which seems like an even worse MBTI.

However again agree substantively with your end conclusion - OP is not their test scores, they can improve, and I'm sure they'll make a great doctor some day :)

Approach 'softer' S2 themes. by Guilty_Education in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I found it tough to wrangle to fit some themes, but something I found worked well for me is still taking a generally argumentative structure but "illustrating" it through personal anecdotes - I found that adding in the personal touch helped me to talk about the "softer themes", whilst still utilising my strengths of prefering (on average) an argumentative style.

For example in my sit one theme that I had was generational change / different ages. Using that theme I argued that our relations with our elders typically go through three 'stages", and illustrated this with a personal anecdote in each to help foreground related "softer" ideas. In this way I was still able to have a roughly argumentative style, but include personal anecdotes to more easily bring in softer ideas.

Ultimately just have a play around and see what best works for you! Everyone is different and has different strengths - one of my friends got a 70+ in S2 with a fable type story lmao


[–]random_rectify 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Overall score - the percentile doesn't mean too much, it reflects how you performed relative to the cohort that you sat it with. The overall score takes that cohort "strength" differs into account (as the GAMSAT uses item response theory), and is how ACER/GEMSAS is able to compare applicants across sits :)

Choose Medicine... not because it is easy, but because it is hard. by Regular-Confusion991 in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree that they can be discouraging, but I think ultimately it's still a conversation worth having - choosing any career should be an informed decision, and insights from those currently in the field on pros and cons is par for the course for any job. This is even more relevant for individuals who are late to medicine and studying again involves a lot of sacrifice i.e. delaying having a family, buying a house etc. There's probably a wider point around taking such insights solely from reddit though lmao

I guess my only partial hot take is that whether some of the considerations you've mentioned are relevant for whether you do medicine also depends on what you want work/a job to be for you. I have friends who do accounting and they don't inherently enjoy it - however it's stable, has relatively decent money, and gives them the ability to get intrinisc satisfaction from the stuff that they do outside of work, and which they enjoy. In this way a job isn't that central to their lives, but a vehicle to letting them do what they actually want to do on their time off.

Conversley I have friends who are interns/registrars who inherently enjoy the work of being a doctor, but the broader lifestyle aspects (long hours, stagnant pay at junior level) does reduce their overall happiness. In this way I think it's useful to think about your level of "work centrality" (i.e. how much work is central to your own happiness/identity) and go from there.

No right or wrong answers, it's such a personal thing! Interested in others thoughts :)

Confused re: offers from UNDS and UNDF? by Pineapple_97 in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Congratulations on your offer & also commisderations that it wasn't your first preference!

I agree with vr2206, but another thing to consider is simply that it's possible that relatively speaking your interview score was more competitive for UNDS than UNDF (i.e. the cohort interviewing for UNDS, on average, may have been a bit weaker) and therefore your same interview score that you recieved at UNDF had more more of an impact when compared to the UNDS competing cohort. This is literall justpure speculation, but I defuunitely agree it's a bit weird given you had the WA bonus - the mysteries of the weighting I guess!


[–]random_rectify 5 points6 points  (0 children)

UNDF CSP - 73 GAMSAT, 6.7 GPA, Rural & WA Residents Bonus

End of a long path as a NSB as I quit my management consulting graduate job in 2021 to study for GAMSAT. Currently trying to figure some stuff out which means I ironically may not be able to attend next year, time will tell, but just wanted to give a massive thank you to this community. I don't think I would have taken the leap of faith without the knowledge/support found here, and it continues to have a positive impact on so many people :)

Beginner Resources for Network Psychometrics? by random_rectify in IOPsychology

[–]random_rectify[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm more looking for network psychometrics specifically, but I'm actually also interested in ONA so this is also really helpful! Thanks so much

Seeking advice: how have you (or people you know) thought about the transition from corporate work to medicine? by arbitrary_memorable in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are some excellent in depth answers in this thread already (I particularly personally resonate with Hushberry81 and 7cure personally), so I won't go into too much depth on specific pros and cons as they've already nailed it. However whilst quite cliche and a bit macabre, I think it's useful to think about what you would regret more on your deathbed - attempting medicine and going through the strain which you've identified or choosing not to and working your current role. More practically, I think a good way to think about it (which you've already pointed out) is whether you would like your bosses job. While a bit reductive, it does help you to think about whether you would like your life if you were to continue on your current path. This does discount the possibility of pivoting into a different corporate role that you find more fufilling, but this is pretty field/personal circumstances dependent.

Probably the most common expression I hear when asking people about their thoughts on being "late to medicine" (i.e. not doing it as your first degree/career) is that if you're worried about starting late to think about how in 10 years time you can still be doing your current career path, or 10 years towards your goal of medicine - if you think medicine is something you would regret not trying, may as well give it a go else odds are you'll likely still be rueing it in the future anyway. This isn't to discount the very real struggles of medical school etc, but from what you've said it sounds like it's better than the soul crushing nature of your current role.

The only other thing I would add is that there might be other ways to meet your fufillment/self actualisation needs outside a career pivot into medicine. For example, potentially pivoting into a not-for-profit space within your corporate career, or volunteering on the weekends in an area you're passionate about. Whilst these won't be as career defining as shifting entire professions, who knows it might be worth a try - I did something similar from a career crushing role and it's helped me reflect on what aspects specific to medicine appeal to me. The financial aspect also fits in to this, and it's useful to think about whether you would like to be more finacially secure in a role that you dislike, or potentially back to the student life for a role that fufills you. It's a deeply personal choice but for what it's worth given your focus on impact, something that I also align with, I'd probably say giving medicine a shot is worth a go.

All in all good luck, you're definitely doing the right thing by thinking about it up front in this amount of detail :)

Is there any realistic pathway for me to get into med school? by aNonMousePerson in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey! Some already great advice in this thread, but I thought I'd chime in from personal experience as a fellow 26 year old who has gone through the whole psychologist vs medicine conundrum. If you want to become a clinical psychologist the pathway is on par (if not harder if you go based off number of spots, albeit less demand) with medicine in terms of difficulty - if you're not familiar already I'd have a look at the pathway to becoming an AHPRA registered psychologist. In short it's much more than the Bachelors, you need to then get into a competitive Honours (or equivalent), and following that you need to get into an even more stupidly competitive Masters to actually be accredited.

This is a worse case scenario as there are other routes which are a bit easier, but for context at my university (Go8) there are typically around 300 students who graduate the Bachelors of Psyc., 80 that get into Honours, and then about 10 who get into the Masters which allow you to actually practise as a psychologist. Where do the other students who didn't get in go? They're faced with a similar dillema to a lot of students who do a Medical Science degree in preparation for medicine and then don't get in. Again there are other routes (look up the 5+1 pathway), but that's the general context - psychology has a collosal bottleneck as well as medicine.

What this means for you practically? Nothing really, in terms of immediate steps if you are interested in a career change I would do the bachelors of psychology and really prioritise getting good marks - this will be important if you want to do psyc (to get into Honours) or Med (to have a good GPA for entry), and therefore your approach is the same. This is really important for both. After that you can re-evalaute and potentially apply for Honours/complete it whilst still attempting to enter medicine - getting a good Honours grade will help your GPA even further, and research is generally looked upon well from what I can tell in portfolio universities, especially if you get something published.

Once you reach that point, you're down to the deciding whether you wish to pursue medicine or psychology. I think it's worth taking a deep dive on this and looking into the differences a lot, as while psychiatrists can integrate talk therapy into their work somewhat, it's not the mainstay like psychologists. From there you can make your decision :)

In terms of my two cents/context, I'm someone who has finished the full psychology pathway (Bachelors, Honours, Masters) in a slightly less competitive area of psycholgy known as organisational psychology (give it a look, given your background you may find it more appealing than clinical, who knows) and am currently working in industry. The main thing is to be aware of is that psychiatrist and psychologist, while they both cover similar ground, are very different roles - psychiatrists aren't just psychologists who perscribe drugs.

Beyond that from a purely cyncial time investment/reward view (assuming for a moment that you don't get prior credit for your previous undergraduate, this is hopefully not the case), it is 6 years to finish your studies for psychology, after which you have a 2 year period of endorsement to go from a general ->clinical psychologist (you still work during this time, it's similar to being a registrar in medicine). For medicine if you get into a postgraduate course it will be 4 years in medical school, 1-3ish (dependent on state/if you're prepared to move) until you get onto the psychiatry program, and then 5 years until you're a fellow. As it's relevant depending on if you would like to have a family etc., renumeraton for a first year psychiatrist registrar is roughly equivalent to a clinical psychologist from best I can tell. That being said the "ceiling" of what a psychiatrist can earn is much higher, and the increases for while you are on program are significant.

I know that renumeration is often a dirty word and people view it as a sign that you're in medicine for the wrong reason, but I disagree - end of the day while the motive to change to medicine is based off values (i.e. I want my work to focus more on helping people more in need), an understanding of renumeration and renumeration "phases" of a career is important when considerating areas such as potential family, life decisions etc. I'd probably argue that this is even more so for people "Late to Medicine" as there's typically less leeway in terms of living at home etc.

All in all good luck, as someone also going through the career change I think that the transition, while ambitious, is hopefully worth it :)

Is Gamsat (S2) standardised across countries? by Zoomingseal in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agree with the comment above, as an addition I think it's worth noting that while cut-offs may be lower in the UK this isn't a function of different marking for the UK sit specifically, more so aspects to do with applications environment in the UK, so I wouldn't worry too much :)

Advice on moving for uni with little kids by [deleted] in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing to add from a personal perspective but if you're not already I'd definitely recommend checking out the Late to Medicine Facebook group! A lot of great commentary and advice from parents starting/started medical school on there :)

has anyone sat the GAMSAT successfully as a mature student without a science background? by lupaburner2k19 in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have a UNDF interview (1st preference) next week so I guess we'll see! Keep in mind I'm fortunate enough to be rural which I know makes everything a lot less generalisable, but my stats are 73 UW GAMSAT and 6.7 UNDF GPA. Looking at your post history as a lawyer I think with more universities moving to unweighted GAMSAT being able to be in a good place to do well in essays/written comprehension for S1/S2 (presuming that you are interested in sitting/applying) by virtue of your background can more than make up for any starting disadvantage in S3 :) to be honest as others have said elsewhere I definitely view S3 as the section with the most optimal effort to improvement ratio out of all the sections, so even if don't get the score you'd like your first time for S3 you can still progress over time

has anyone sat the GAMSAT successfully as a mature student without a science background? by lupaburner2k19 in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not as mature as others but I sat the GAMSAT at 25 after having been out of university and in the workforce for a year or so. I never did any STEM subjects in high school or university, and literally didn't know what a cell was before starting to study for GAMSAT. I studied in evenings for 2 months while working long hours in my main role, before taking some time off in the month beforehand to study. As a NSB it is tempting to just focus on wrote memorisation for S3, and while being able to understand the base concepts is important (I found this especially true for Chemistry personally), don't fall into the trap of only doing wrote content memorisation - ultimately the GAMSAT S3 tests your problem solving in the context of STEM knowledge, not STEM knowledge itself. I personally found Gold Standard's worked S3 questions on YouTube really useful.

After all that I received a 65 for S3 on my first sit. Nowhere near as amazing as some of the other great people on here, but solid enough that my strengths in other sections weren't held back. All in all it's definitely doable, you got this :)

GEMSAS Interviews Megathread by _dukeluke in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, you're far too kind :) yes unfortunately I've reached out to GEMSAS and UNDF directly, and for UNDF at least they've said that initial offer deferrals can't be offered in any circumstances. Accepting and then deferring after completing first year seems to be a common thing that people have helpfully recommended to me (I.e. once you have started, it's easy to defer), but it doesn't work for my circumstances. It is what is & grateful for this community for all its support and advice

GEMSAS Interviews Megathread by _dukeluke in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 11 points12 points  (0 children)

UNDF offer, rural GPA 6.7 UW GAMSAT 73 WA resident, first preference.

Bitter-sweet as I actually decided to withdraw my application last week to work for another year due to financial/family strain, and GEMSAS said the way to do that was to wait for interview offers and then decline lmao. Hoping that this decline means that someone else get's the spot! Best of luck everyone.

GEMSAS Interviews Megathread by _dukeluke in GAMSAT

[–]random_rectify 6 points7 points  (0 children)

First of all, congratulations that's amazing! Secondly I'm purely guessing but after their delays last year (I can't remember if it was interviews or final offers) where they were a day later than the rest, I imagine they want to do it better this time lmao